May 2023 changes

[Ayman Ilham]

It was, when it was running, two trains a day from Preston via Clitheroe to Hellifield and back. The publicity doesn't seem to exist any more, though it was on the Community Rail Lancashire website.

For some reason it appears the service is still running today; seems to be a Sunday service that goes onwards to Blackpool on the return leg after an hour at Hellifield. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y41291/2023-04-30#allox_id=0

 

[Watershed]

For some reason it appears the service is still running today; seems to be a Sunday service that goes onwards to Blackpool on the return leg after an hour at Hellifield. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y41291/2023-04-30#allox_id=0

The May timetable change isn't until 21 May. So in theory there are two more Sundays to do this line - if the train runs.

 

[Ayman Ilham]

The May timetable change isn't until 21 May. So in theory there are two more Sundays to do this line - if the train runs.

Interesting, thought the service was Summer only and wasn't running at all this year.

 

[Watershed]

Interesting, thought the service was Summer only and wasn't running at all this year.

It was always Preston to Hellifield during winter (Dec TT) and Blackpool North to Carlisle during summer (May TT). During Covid it was suspended for some time, but it did reappear. Unfortunately it's now a victim of short-sighted DfT cost-cutting

 

[Whistler40145]

It was always Preston to Hellifield during winter (Dec TT) and Blackpool North to Carlisle during summer (May TT). During Covid it was suspended for some time, but it did reappear. Unfortunately it's now a victim of short-sighted DfT cost-cutting

Also, lack of available train crews on Sundays was a factor for cancellation

 

[InkyScrolls]

It's a real shame the service is being cut. We picked up about twelve walkers at HLD this morning, bound for various S&C stations, who had come off the service from Preston. And on a wet, miserable day, too!

 

[Ayman Ilham]

It's a real shame the service is being cut. We picked up about twelve walkers at HLD this morning, bound for various S&C stations, who had come off the service from Preston. And on a wet, miserable day, too!

Also would've made a nice shortcut to S&C from my new base in Blackburn

 

[voyagerdude220]

It's just a 5.

From the May timetable change the 05:40 Blackpool North to London Euston is booked for a 10-car 221. Consequently it no longer calls at Poulton le Fylde (PFY) or Kirkham and Wesham (KKM) , which I think is a shame.

This means that both PFY and KKM have sadly lost their direct trains to/from London.

Didn't the 06:00 Preston to Euston used to start from Lancaster, instead of Blackpool North several years ago? Seeing it will soon be none stop Blackpool to Preston, I'd have thought it would have been more useful coming from Lancaster.

 

[Some guy]

From the May timetable change the 05:40 Blackpool North to London Euston is booked for a 10-car 221. Consequently it no longer calls at Poulton le Fylde (PFY) or Kirkham and Wesham (KKM) , which I think is a shame.

This means that both PFY and KKM have sadly lost their direct trains to/from London.

Didn't the 06:00 Preston to Euston used to start from Lancaster, instead of Blackpool North several years ago? Seeing it will soon be none stop Blackpool to Preston, I'd have thought it would have been more useful coming from Lancaster.

It’s a huge shame they even trained the Preston crews on Kirkham and Poulton platforms which seems pointless exercise now if they are cutting the stops altogether

 

[tom1649]

Why's it a 221? I thought it was a 390 after the knitting went up on the Blackpool North line.

 

[craigybagel]

It’s a huge shame they even trained the Preston crews on Kirkham and Poulton platforms which seems pointless exercise now if they are cutting the stops altogether

Traincrew should sign all stations on routes they sign, regardless of whether or not they're regularly booked to call there.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Why's it a 221? I thought it was a 390 after the knitting went up on the Blackpool North line.

It used to have to be a 221 for when it coupled with the 221 coming from Holyhead, although now it no longer does that from the May timetable change I suppose nothing is stopping it from being a 390 if needs be.

 

[73128]

Apologies if this is the wrong place to ask this.
Do we know how this impacts what is allocated 68/Mk3?

yes - additional peak LH service from Princes Risborough and to Bicester North at least to May because of Nuneham Viaduct.

 

[bramling]

For those interested, here are the weekday GN 700 diagrams from May.

700/0

5C04 0600 Hornsey Depot – London King's Cross ECS
2C04 0627 London King's Cross – Cambridge
2C17 0826 Cambridge – London King's Cross
1T20 1010 London King's Cross – Ely
1T27 1153 Ely – London King's Cross
2C32 1327 London King's Cross – Cambridge
2C45 1526 Cambridge – London King's Cross
1P84 1712 London King's Cross – Peterborough
5P84 1841 Peterborough – Peterborough Spital Sidings ECS
5J63 1931 Peterborough Spital Sidings – Peterborough ECS
9J63 1955 Peterborough – Horsham
9W90 2311 Horsham – Peterborough
5W90 0230 Peterborough – Peterborough NeneCS

5P83 0528 Peterborough Nene CS – Peterborough ECS
1P83 0605 Peterborough – London King's Cross
2C10 0757 London King's Cross – Cambridge
2C23 0957 Cambridge – London King's Cross
2R26 1157 London King's Cross – Letchworth
2R35 1328 Letchworth – London King's Cross
1T38 1442 London King's Cross – Kings Lynn
1T49 1642 Kings Lynn – London King's Cross
2R54 1857 London King's Cross – Letchworth
5E83 1954 Letchworth – Hornsey Depot ECS

3T94 0540 Hornsey Depot – London King's Cross ECS
1T94 0602 London King's Cross – Kings Lynn
1T15 0812 Kings Lynn – London King's Cross
2C20 1027 London King's Cross – Cambridge
2C33 1226 Cambridge – London King's Cross
1T36 1412 London King's Cross – Ely
1T43 1553 Ely – London King's Cross
2C48 1727 London King's Cross – Cambridge
2C61 1926 Cambridge – London King's Cross
1T64 2109 London King's Cross – Ely
1T71 2248 Ely – London King's Cross
1C76 0032 London King's Cross – Cambridge
5C76 0148 Cambridge – Cambridge Sidings North ECS

5C05 0516 Cambridge Sidings North – Cambridge ECS
2C05 0526 Cambridge – London King's Cross
1T08 0712 London King's Cross – Ely
5T08 0838 Ely – Cambridge Sidings South ECS
5T98 0915 Cambridge Sidings S – Cambridge Sidings N ECS
5T92 1556 Cambridge Sidings North – Cambridge ECS
2T92 1619 Cambridge – Ely
1T47 1648 Ely – London King's Cross
2C52 1827 London King's Cross – Cambridge
2C65 2024 Cambridge – London King's Cross
5E27 2212 London King's Cross – Hornsey Depot ECS

700/1

5P87 0651 Peterborough Spital Sidings – Peterborough ECS
1P87 0705 Peterborough – London King's Cross
5E52 0836 London King's Cross – Hornsey Depot ECS
3P88 1742 Hornsey Depot – London King's Cross ECS
1P88 1812 London King's Cross - Peterborough
5P88 1933 Peterborough – Peterborough Nene CS ECS

Everything else is 387.

This represents a reduction in 700/0 diagrams from 8 to 4, along with an extra 700/1 diagram (which nominally could be regarded as coming off the Littlehampton service).

The number of 387 diagrams increases to 31.

Four up peak services from Kings Lynn and three down services to Kings Lynn are 12-car inwards of Cambridge. The diagrams have been designed so that all 12-car services only work in the peak direction, with attachments and detachments at King’s Cross or ECS to/from Hornsey.

The only Peterborough peak 12-car is the 700/1 diagram above. The other services are 700/0 or 8/387.

For those number crunchers, eliminating the remaining 700 working would require 11x 387s, taking the total requirement to 42. As can be seen, this cannot be met with the current fleet of 29+6+3. To make GN all-387 with this timetable would require something like 46 units. I guess it would be just about manageable if 717s were used somewhere.

A bit more detail on the May GN service:

King's Cross to Cambridge / Letchworth services:
8/387
0527, 0557, 0657, 0727, 0827, 0857, 0927, 0957, 1057, 1127, 1227, 1257, 1357, 1427, 1457, 1527, 1557, 1627, 1657, 1757, 1927, 1957, 2027, 2057, 2127, 2227, 2327, 0036, 0107

8/700
0627, 0757, 1027, 1157, 1327, 1827, 1857

Of the early morning services,
1C00 0502 King's Cross to Cambridge changes to 8/387
1P02 0512 King's Cross to Peterborough changes to 8/387 and departs earlier
1C02 0532 King's Cross to Cambridge changes from 8/700 to 12/700
1P04 0547 King's Cross to Peterborough changes from 4/387 to 12/700
1T94 0602 King's Cross to Cambridge changes from 12/700 to 8/387 and is extended to Kings Lynn
1C74 0002 King's Cross to Cambridge departs later (formerly 2342) and calls additionally at Stevenage, Hitchin, Baldock, Ashwell & Morden, Meldreth, Shepreth and Foxton.
9W90 2311 Horsham to Peterborough changes from 12/700 to 8/700.

More will be added tomorrow!

 

[EMU303]

Don’t know if this has already been mentioned above but Scotrail will be reintroducing the 15 minute frequency on the Edinburgh to Glasgow via Falkirk High service on Saturday’s, now the busiest day of the week.

 

[hexagon789]

Don’t know if this has already been mentioned above but Scotrail will be reintroducing the 15 minute frequency on the Edinburgh to Glasgow via Falkirk High service on Saturday’s, now the busiest day of the week.

Mentioned upthread.

Not the same pattern as the old 15 min interval service though; Polmont and Linlithgow are served by every train for instance. Croy remains half-hourly.

Still different to the present 15 min peak hour service, where the extra two servuces each hour serve Bishopbriggs and Lenzie.

 

[EMU303]

Mentioned upthread.

Not the same pattern as the old 15 min interval service though; Polmont and Linlithgow are served by every train for instance. Croy remains half-hourly.

Still different to the present 15 min peak hour service, where the extra two servuces each hour serve Bishopbriggs and Lenzie.

Thanks for the clarification

 

[Ayman Ilham]

Don’t know if this has already been mentioned above but Scotrail will be reintroducing the 15 minute frequency on the Edinburgh to Glasgow via Falkirk High service on Saturday’s, now the busiest day of the week.

Nice to see train operators are finally starting to catch up with the new travel pattern, with weekend travellers now surpassing weekday commuters.

 

[Scotrail314209]

I think the next round of changes should focus on the suburban services around Glasgow. It's not great that East Kilbride remains hourly after 19:45, along with the Maxwell Park side of the Cathcart Circle also remaining broadly hourly. (Though it is an improvement that theres some additional Cathcart Circle services until 11:15).

Mentioned upthread.

Not the same pattern as the old 15 min interval service though; Polmont and Linlithgow are served by every train for instance. Croy remains half-hourly.

Still different to the present 15 min peak hour service, where the extra two servuces each hour serve Bishopbriggs and Lenzie.

It's definitely an improvement for Polmont/Linlithgow who now have an Edinburgh train broadly every 10 minutes.

 

[ld0595]

I think the next round of changes should focus on the suburban services around Glasgow. It's not great that East Kilbride remains hourly after 19:45, along with the Maxwell Park side of the Cathcart Circle also remaining broadly hourly. (Though it is an improvement that theres some additional Cathcart Circle services until 11:15).

Similarly Cathcart is hourly for a few hours in the evenings. Pretty poor service provision for a relatively busy suburban station in the largest city!

 

[Stopper]

Looks like Cupar will be a call on every ScotRail Edinburgh-Aberdeen service for a trial period.

I always felt bad for Cupar, after the Aberdeen services were speeded up by introducing the semi-fast Dundee services, it only had an hourly service in comparison to Ladybank and Markinch (which had the Perth service) and Leuchars (which had the Aberdeen service). I think this is a good move.

 

[hexagon789]

Looks like Cupar will be a call on every ScotRail Edinburgh-Aberdeen service for a trial period.

I always felt bad for Cupar, after the Aberdeen services were speeded up by introducing the semi-fast Dundee services, it only had an hourly service in comparison to Ladybank and Markinch (which had the Perth service) and Leuchars (which had the Aberdeen service). I think this is a good move.

What I find ironic is that back when the Turbostars were introduced, the ScotRail Edinburgh-Aberdeen services all stopped at Haymarket, Kirkcaldy, Markinch and Cupar plus Inverkeithing one hour/Ladybank the other, then Leuchars. The standard timing then was 2h23 to Aberdeen, omitting all these stops has saved 3-4 mins.

Adding Cupar back in seems to mostly only add 1 or 2 mins...

 

[Peter0124]

I believe the Gourock fasts will come back in December. Strange that they removed them in the first place.

 

[Tayway]

I noticed also that some late night services to Fife have been curtailed at Inverkeithing Sunday to Thursday for electrification works – surprised they didn't just remove them altogether unless they're providing a replacement bus to/from Edinburgh.

Cupar stops on the Aberdeen services make sense given the Dundee semi-fasts were combined with the Kirkcaldy stoppers last May, and so the journey time to Edinburgh is now considerably slower.

I'm not sure if this is the case currently, but Monifieth seems to be skipped on several Dundee to Arbroath stoppers – is this for pathing reasons? They seem a rather inefficient use of resources at present given the round trip is slightly over an hour so two units must be used. I wonder if reinstating the third platform at Arbroath would reduce the turnaround time?

 

[bob007]

Interesting that the late trains from Manchester to Slaithwaite will be serviced by a Liverpool to Huddersfield service from Victoria.

That means if you go in to Manchester in the evening you’ll arrive at Piccadilly, and after 10pm have to return from Victoria

I better not have more than a pint else I’ll be standing at Piccadilly wondering where my train is!

 

[XCTurbostar]

Anyone know which XC HST services are dropped from May TT?

 

[Chewy67]

Looks like they staying same.

 

[Llandudno]

Interesting that the late trains from Manchester to Slaithwaite will be serviced by a Liverpool to Huddersfield service from Victoria.

That means if you go in to Manchester in the evening you’ll arrive at Piccadilly, and after 10pm have to return from Victoria

I better not have more than a pint else I’ll be standing at Piccadilly wondering where my train is!

Will the late trains be operated by TransPennine Express?

What could possibly go wrong….?

 

[louis97]

Anyone know which XC HST services are dropped from May TT?

None, the current two diagrams continue until September.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Looks like they staying same.

None, the current two diagrams continue until September.

Many thanks both