Travelling of any sort is tiring.
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Rail bosses spend £10,000 a week on flights – because it’s cheaper than trains
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The idea that all people who fly on business being all senior execs with 'snouts in the trough' is wide of the mark.
I've flown a few times for business, mainly Luton to Glasgow and Luton/Birmingham to Belfast. No business class available. On both routes I'd say the majority of people flying on those planes were making business trips. I saw many of the same people later the same day on the flight home. It's often people who need to make physical visits rather than using Teams or Zoom. The vast majority are 'normal' people - decent jobs but in many cases probably not earning any more than a train driver.
The regulars clearly know the drill - 07:00 departure so gate closes at 06:30. Arrive at the airport about 06:15 straight through security (absolutely no faffing with families, stag parties or leisure travel on thise flights). Hand luggage only - remember to take the laptop out of the rucsack when going through security. Many carrying PPE for site visits.
I've flown a few times for business, mainly Luton to Glasgow and Luton/Birmingham to Belfast. No business class available. On both routes I'd say the majority of people flying on those planes were making business trips. I saw many of the same people later the same day on the flight home. It's often people who need to make physical visits rather than using Teams or Zoom. The vast majority are 'normal' people - decent jobs but in many cases probably not earning any more than a train driver.
The regulars clearly know the drill - 07:00 departure so gate closes at 06:30. Arrive at the airport about 06:15 straight through security (absolutely no faffing with families, stag parties or leisure travel on thise flights). Hand luggage only - remember to take the laptop out of the rucsack when going through security. Many carrying PPE for site visits.
KirkstallOne
Member
I would love the option to fly from Leeds to Inverness on business as it was a huge time saver when I have done it previously, but there are absolutely no direct flights from LBX to any mainland destinations at all these days!
railfan99
Established Member
Especially if one is in First and there aren't any crying babies or stag/hen's parties, rail travel can be incredibly relaxing.
While no travel mode is perfect for working via a device, rail can be quite good.
To add my two'pennorth worth I have travelled up by train on business from London to Glasgow and back in a single day for an essential client site visit. Got a taxi from home to Euston, then first direct train of the day and after boarding slept until Preston when it started to get light then started work on my laptop. On the way back - late afternoon train with plenty of uninterrupted concentration time at a table seat in standard class then a glass or two of wine as evening set in. On subsequent visits spread over several days I also preferred rail over air. Flying can be superficially quicker but the journey is much more chopped up into segments with disruption when changing from one to the next. Each to their own but personally I do believe rail is feasible for longer business journeys.
Yes I’ve done similar, and was absolutely broken by the end of it. It comes down to individual requirements of the journey, and origin destination. I prefer to use the train for London - Scotland, but sometimes I have had to fly. On one occasion some years ago I had to have a meeting at London Bridge over lunchtime, and also had to be at Edinburgh Waverley to meet colleagues by 1730. IIRC I left the office around 1400, was in the departure lounge at City airport 40 minutes later, and airborne before 1530. Jumped on the tram the other end and I was at Waverley about half an hour early.
I've done London to Glasgow by train for business but last year I was asked to run a training course in Glasgow at the last minute for a colleague who had got covid. I agreed on the proviso I could be back in London by 18:00 as I was meeting some forum members for dinner near Euston.
As it happened the place where I was running the training course was only a couple of miles from Glasgow Airport. At 15:00 the training course finished, I was in a taxi at 15:15, through security by 15:30 and in the air at 16:00. Arrival at City Airport was delayed by a few minutes due to the plane having to approach the runway from a westerly direction meaning the plane flew along the Thames estuary before a 180 degree turn around the Shard! A spectacular view on a very clear day.
Within 10 minutes of landing I was on the DLR and arrived at the pub in plenty of time for pre-dinner drinks!
Oxfordblues
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I remember a senior colleague at Railfreight Distribution who lived in Maidenhead always travelled to meetings with SNCF in Paris by flying from Heathrow (on expenses, business-class of course) because he couldn't stand queuing with the plebs at Waterloo International for the Eurostar. (Ironically he was negotiating the projected "35 intermodals per day" through the Channel Tunnel, which never materialised!)
I was in the Western Region Control office at 125 House in Swindon one day when someone pointed-out a large shiny-black car in the car-park below with a uniformed chauffeur waiting beside it. I was told it belonged to the Chairman of Railtrack who was visiting from London. Apparently he hated travelling by train for fear he'd be recognised and harangued by irate fellow-passengers!
I was in the Western Region Control office at 125 House in Swindon one day when someone pointed-out a large shiny-black car in the car-park below with a uniformed chauffeur waiting beside it. I was told it belonged to the Chairman of Railtrack who was visiting from London. Apparently he hated travelling by train for fear he'd be recognised and harangued by irate fellow-passengers!
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Facing Back
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That is hilarious, thanks for sharing
GuyGibsonVC
Member
As mentioned, nothing new. Apprentices for NR from the North sometimes used to fly to Southampton via Paris when they attended Gosport. Cheaper and quicker.
frodshamfella
Established Member
Rail fares I think are generally expensive. Avanti from Runcorn to London is expensive for when im looking to book. Im also travelling down to Exeter for business in a few weeks, slow and expensive.
He went most places by his chauffeur driven car.
Or indeed ask the question with the last two words removed!
Mcr Warrior
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The funny thing is I've fallen down down a bit of YouTube rabbit hole this week and become slightly addicted to watching the late 90s/early 00s 'Airline' series from ITV (Basically follows the operations of EasyJet), amazing how many of the business people with 'critical super important cannot be late under any circumstances' meetings turn up late and expect the plane to wait for them!
One of my favourite moments so far is the woman in this episode who just sat in a coffee shop rather than bothering to head for her flight and the narrator with the line 'Susie has tried to find a more sympathetic ear...instead she's found Jane Boulton'
On one of the flights I took to Glasgow I was travelling with a couple of colleagues who were not at experienced when it came to business travel. The flight was at 07:30 and they wanted to meet at the airport at 05:30 for breakfast. I refused and said I'd meet them at the gate at 07:15. They were shocked at my attitude.The funny thing is I've fallen down down a bit of YouTube rabbit hole this week and become slightly addicted to watching the late 90s/early 00s 'Airline' series from ITV (Basically follows the operations of EasyJet), amazing how many of the business people with 'critical super important cannot be late under any circumstances' meetings turn up late and expect the plane to wait for them!
One of my favourite moments so far is the woman in this episode who just sat in a coffee shop rather than bothering to head for her flight and the narrator with the line 'Susie has tried to find a more sympathetic ear...instead she's found Jane Boulton'
I had the last laugh when I arrived at 07:15 - they'd struggled to find anywhere serving breakfast at 05:30 and were moaning about their lack of sleep all day!
Beginning to wonder of I should have gone by train from Horsham to Ambleside -> Salford -> Horsham these last few days.
Seven and a half hours to drive to Ambleside from Horsham then three hours to drive from Kirkstone pass to Swinton. I reckon Robin Hood on horseback could almost have matched that.
Next year I am planning a trip to Torridon (Scotland) and after recent experience, driving that distance sounds like a masochistic method of torture even with breaking the journey. What would be best, train or sleeper to Inverness and a train towards Achnasheen (bringing a bike with me) or flying to Inverness and hiring a car (hiring a car for a week might be comparable to the cost of the sleeper)?
Seven and a half hours to drive to Ambleside from Horsham then three hours to drive from Kirkstone pass to Swinton. I reckon Robin Hood on horseback could almost have matched that.
Next year I am planning a trip to Torridon (Scotland) and after recent experience, driving that distance sounds like a masochistic method of torture even with breaking the journey. What would be best, train or sleeper to Inverness and a train towards Achnasheen (bringing a bike with me) or flying to Inverness and hiring a car (hiring a car for a week might be comparable to the cost of the sleeper)?
No it hasn't. There are so many loopholes in the rule that it's essentially meaningless, only affecting less than a dozen flights a day from Orly.
Which is quite sensible as business class on short flights nowadays just means a slightly less terrible on-board meal and maybe a blocked middle seat.
I have tried all three methods to get to the Torridon area:
Sleeper + hire car
Fly + hire car
Drive the whole way
Of the three, the sleeper was the most tiring, as I was effectively useless the next day and therefore ’lost’ that day of the walking holiday.
Fly + hire car worked fairly well, but obviously not easy to take a bike or a lot of kit.
Last time, I drove (a couple of months ago), as I was taking bikes and a lot of kit. It was fine if a) you like driving and b) you pick your travel time well. I left the home counties Thursday 1730, arrived at a service station hotel southern Scotland at 2230 just over the Border, left there 0600 next morning and was at Inverness Tescos before 1100. No traffic at all, save for the M1 to MK, and that was flowing freely (just st 60).
Torridon is nominally another hour and a half from Inverness, but can be done quicker. It is a terrific drive from Conon Bridge to Kinlochewe / Torridon.
ABB125
Established Member
Clearly not all rail senior management fly everywhere - I spotted Peter Hendy getting the train somewhere after he attended Rail Live last month (several times in fact, he was doing the same journey as me!).
In the early 90s I got a promotion which required travel to Europe as part of the job. My first trip a few days later was to Krakow and our travel people wouldn't book me a flight because I 'wasn't on the authorised flight list', so I was told to book pay and claim everything back. Air was too expensive so I booked the train. It went via Brussels, Cologne and Frankfurt, allowing me enough interchange time to get something to eat and drink. The whole journey took around 24 hours, but I had my Librex 386 laptop, Sony Walkman, notebook and pen. plus a couple of books to read: one was a 1920s guide to Germany, including maps and the other was ‘A Book of Railway Journeys’ edited by Ludovic Kennedy.
It was a very relaxing journey and enjoyable talking to people.
I still have the Walkman and books, but the laptop has long since gone.
It was a very relaxing journey and enjoyable talking to people.
I still have the Walkman and books, but the laptop has long since gone.
well quite.
in my 30years+, with a few jobs that have required Scotland visits, I reckon I’ve flown ’on business’ maybe a dozen flights. Long distance (200 mile+) train trips, into the thousands.
Butts
Veteran Member
I take it this wasn't from an Airport with a BA Lounge ? most of them are open around 5.30/6.00am serving breakfast better than that found onboard or indeed on a Train ?
I was doing just that at GLA on Saturday Morning around 6am.
It was Luton and we were on the 07:30 Easyjet to Glasgow.
Fleetmaster
Member
The first question of course is why are they even travelling?
What exactly is the nature of this business that requires them to be at a certain place at a certain time, and presumably at short notice? In person attendance at international conferences is understandable, as is the fact international travel is only really feasible by air. But for everything else, what the hell?
It would of course hardly be a surprise to learn that a government owned company under huge budgetary pressure was never allowed to invest in the technology that makes such travel redundant.
What exactly is the nature of this business that requires them to be at a certain place at a certain time, and presumably at short notice? In person attendance at international conferences is understandable, as is the fact international travel is only really feasible by air. But for everything else, what the hell?
It would of course hardly be a surprise to learn that a government owned company under huge budgetary pressure was never allowed to invest in the technology that makes such travel redundant.
50 air tickets a week - mostly international - is a tiny amount for an organisation of over 40,000 people.
The average cost of each ticket is something like £46.
It’s a nothingburger of a story.
You cannot do everything remotely. Outside of things like site visits you need to build relationships with people you work with, your stakeholders including suppliers and customers. It's important to get 'out and about' to see what's actually happening on the ground.
In my (non railway) employment I'm regularly out seeing what is happening on the ground across our diverse business. I have colleagues in other departments who try to run the business via Teams from their spare bedroom, rarely get out and meet people or see what is happening on the ground. They are so remote from reality that it's becoming an issue.
Short notice isn't really the issue. I explained earlier that I needed to travel from Glasgow to Stevenage to conduct a site visit. I could do this journey relatively easily by train ( and have done so both for business and leisure) but to get a day in Glasgow means travelling the day before, losing a day's productivity. It also means a very late arrival home or another overnight stay and another day travelling home. Please don't say you can work on the train - yes, you can do some work on a train but it's not exactly the same as an office environment and cwertainly isn't a confidential environment for making phone calls.
I got an Easyjet flight from Luton departing at 07:30 and a flight back from Glasgow at 18:30. This was the most pragmatic solution, as it was it also cost less than the train would've done but cruicially I didn't need the cost and inconvenience of an overnight stay, lose any productivity travelling and also managemed to get decent sleep both nights.
It's rare that I fly but sometimes it is the most appropriate option, sometimes train is most appropriate and sometimes it's best to drive. Horses for courses!
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