It's rumoured that TPE Mk5a sets to be scrapped due to cracks

[BPN2022]

Rumour's going around on twitter these are going to the scrapyard in December

 

[JonathanH]

Rumour's going around on twitter these are going to the scrapyard in December

Rumours don't have to be true. It has been pointed out in other threads that they are on lease into 2024. Are there some counter rumours on twitter?

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tpe-mk5-68-sets.244619/page-11#post-6330089

 

[BPN2022]

Rumours don't have to be true. It has been pointed out in other threads that they are on lease into 2024. Are there some counter rumours on twitter?

Not really. seems to be common knowledge within TPE it seems. I hope not but they have caused no end of problems. Just would be an insane amount of £ to waste.

 

[YorkshireBear]

That rumour feels like it has been doing the rounds for a good while now, it comes and goes. I would be shocked if the ROSCO gave up that easy, even if TPE did.

 

[ld0595]

It must be true if it was on Twitter then

 

[Narrowgauge725]

It must be true if it was on Twitter then

No can’t be true because Twitter doesn’t exist it has a silly name now X

 

[skyhigh]

The same user who's been spreading the rumour the Mk5 coaches are being scrapped is claiming the 68s are going to follow.

I think someone has misunderstood the phrase "TPE are scrapping [their plans for] the Mk5s" as "the Mk5s are getting scrapped"

 

[m79900]

It'd be a massive waste if they were. They're brand new trains and the leasing company's going to want to get some use out of them, so they won't be scrapped.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It'd be a massive waste if they were. They're brand new trains and the leasing company's going to want to get some use out of them, so they won't be scrapped.

A related question would be that if they're basically useless due to irreparable cracking isn't the same issue going to afflict the near-identical Caledonian coaches? This seems to point to it being unlikely.

 

[hexagon789]

To throw another rumour I've seen recently into the mix, because we might as well at this juncture!

To solve LNER's requirements for additional trains in the near future:

TPE retains all Mk5 sets, and instead loses 802s to LNER.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To throw another rumour I've seen recently into the mix, because we might as well at this juncture!

To solve LNER's requirements for additional trains in the near future:

TPE retains all Mk5 sets, and instead loses 802s to LNER.

There are a few random possibilities for TPE to send units to LNER. My suggestion was 397s to LNER to run as double sets (they want 10-car trains) and Avanti to take over Manchester Airport-Scotland using 807s instead of the second Liverpool, providing a bit of extra capacity and simplifying TPE's messy network (the WCML has never been a good fit for them). If a second Liverpool is really needed, extend the LNR Crewe or add a few peak extras that can be done with existing stock.

However, I suspect yours is as likely as mine

 

[Halifaxlad]

A related question would be that if they're basically useless due to irreparable cracking isn't the same issue going to afflict the near-identical Caledonian coaches? This seems to point to it being unlikely.

If anything I can see 'cracks' being used as an excuse to get rid of them!

Wernt these supposed to be leaving TPE anyway ?

I suspect trying to find another operator to take them on has proved difficult.

 

[RobShipway]

Er..... There was cracking with the class 8xx units, so should all of those been scrapped, would be my reply to the user on X. Since the issues of cracking where able to be fixed with the Class 8xx units, I suspect that it will be the same with the Mk5A coaches. I know that the MK5A coaches have been moved to TPE Southern routes, but even if they where to leave TPE I would expect as others have said for the ROSCO to get their money's worth from the carriages.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If anything I can see 'cracks' being used as an excuse to get rid of them!

Wernt these supposed to be leaving TPE anyway ?

I suspect trying to find another operator to take them on has proved difficult.

There are cracks I believe, that much is true. The Twitter rumour suggested them as being irreparable due to where they are, though, which seems far fetched in that we've heard no such thing about the Cally.

Whether TPE/CAF/the leaseco might choose not to repair them (and thus mutually end the lease and maintenance contract) is another matter.

 

[m79900]

There are cracks I believe, that much is true. The Twitter rumour suggested them as being irreparable due to where they are, though, which seems far fetched in that we've heard no such thing about the Cally.

The Caledonian sets pretty much do one trip a day though, with lots of time for maintainence, so it may take more time for problems to emerge on these.

 

[SuspectUsual]

The Caledonian sets pretty much do one trip a day though, with lots of time for maintainence, so it may take more time for problems to emerge on these.

And don’t they also run at a significantly slower maximum speed? I’m no scientist but would it be right to suggest the forces exerted increase at a more than linear rate as speed increases?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

And don’t they also run at a significantly slower maximum speed? I’m no scientist but would it be right to suggest the forces exerted increase at a more than linear rate as speed increases?

The TPE sets aren't used to their full design speed of 125mph either. There's little if any 100mph capability on the North TP route at present, and not much above 90.

 

[hexagon789]

And don’t they also run at a significantly slower maximum speed? I’m no scientist but would it be right to suggest the forces exerted increase at a more than linear rate as speed increases?

The TPE sets aren't used to their full design speed of 125mph either. There's little if any 100mph capability on the North TP route at present, and not much above 90.

The Caledonian Sleepers regularly hold 80-87mph for miles on end up the WCML, its not impossible that their 80+mph mileage is comparable to the TPE sets - as noted the TP route is mostly a 90 ceiling and has plenty of running at lower speeds than that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Caledonian Sleepers regularly hold 80-87mph for miles on end up the WCML, its not impossible that their 80+mph mileage is comparable to the TPE sets - as noted the TP route is mostly a 90 ceiling and has plenty of running at lower speeds than that.

The rumour on Twitter (Twitter's search facility is dire or I'd quote it) suggested cracks were related to the couplers, so more stop-start (as the TPE sets experience) would probably be more of an issue than long non-stop runs on the WCML, though.

 

[hexagon789]

The rumour on Twitter (Twitter's search facility is dire or I'd quote it) suggested cracks were related to the couplers, so more stop-start (as the TPE sets experience) would probably be more of an issue than long non-stop runs on the WCML, though.

Ah well, that is a different matter then.

 

[Clarence Yard]

I think rumours are getting conflated. The most likely reason the Mk 5 sets may well be going is that TPE are wanting to reduce the complicated number of types they currently operate and the LHCS is the most likely candidate to bin off at lease end.

 

[leytongabriel]

Isn't TPE lookig at getting rid of these on the souther routes now anyway?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn't TPE lookig at getting rid of these on the souther routes now anyway?

Yes, they're moving back to the north route.

 

[Energy]

Ultimately it's the ROSCOs issue. If the mk5s get binned off by TPE then they find an alternative customer. If the cracks are really that bad that the whole unit gets scrapped then the ROSCO would likely sue CAF for compensation for delivering an inadequate product.

Businesses have insurance, at worst CAF or the metal supplier's insurance company will pay out compensation for repairs or the value of the stock.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the idea of Flixtrain or someone else leasing them abroad...

 

[Sorcerer]

Considering they were already the most underutilised stock on the railway, withdrawing the MK5A sets may just as well solidify them as a huge waste of money. That said I can't be surprised that there are rumours of cracks since CAF stock consistently suffer from that issue to the point where you might be left wondering why anyone still buys from them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the idea of Flixtrain or someone else leasing them abroad...

They're very little use for European operations, as they're too small. A narrow gauge country like Thailand might be interested though, they'd have to swap the bogies and add some sort of steps but the bodies are about the same size - after all they have some Class 158s!

 

[D6130]

They're very little use for European operations, as they're too small. A narrow gauge country like Thailand might be interested though, they'd have to swap the bogies and add some sort of steps but the bodies are about the same size - after all they have some Class 158s!

Ex-BR Mark 3 sleepers are running successfully in Denmark and ex-Channel Tunnel sleepers in Canada....both of which are built to British loading gauge.

 

[RHolmes]

Rumour's going around on twitter these are going to the scrapyard in December

They’re not, It’s complete and total hogwash.

 

[43096]

Ex-BR Mark 3 sleepers are running successfully in Denmark

It’s many, many years since that finished.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Ex-BR Mark 3 sleepers are running successfully in Denmark

They were, but they replaced them about 15 years ago and returned them to the UK.

Your point stands as valid, though.