London Buses Discussion

[MasterSpenny]

Anybody hoping for the short length Cities in London might be disappointed. The batch of BYD / ADL (10.3m) for routes 363 and C3 has been changed to Wrightbus StreetDeck Electroliners and are currently being built for those routes:
3031-40 - Route C3
3041-7 - Route 363

Transport UK London Bus | The Bus Forum

While in the introduction day the staff showed us some powerpoint slides showing what it is like working in the company. In one slide it showed the future of travel london which was.. Ex

tangytango.proboards.com

A picture of 3033 has appeared (not my photo)

Arriva London new buses ES050 ES053 and abellio new buses

Explore Bus Trucker Ashley's 736 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

 

[Notchapple]

Didn't know Leyton garage covered the 96, that's a hell of a lot of dead mileage there

For serious though, Plumstead have about 5 or 6 Scanias left, which probably won't see the year out. The ranks have already been thinned out by various spare E400s from other parts of Stagecoach London. The ones at Leyton should be off when the new contract starts next year, possibly replaced by the E400Hs currently on the 277 when that route is electrified.

I for one will be glad to see the back of them - the seats are rock hard, the bodies are of poor quality, plus they replaced a fair amount of my beloved Trident/ALX400s . Cheap as chips nonsense bought by accountants, Macquarie Bank really did do some damage to East London and Selkent at the tail end of the 2000s!

There is the irony that Leyton's last few Tridents actually outlasted the huge Scania batch bought for the 48 and 56 by about two or three years!

Aha my bad there, got mistaken, it's run from West Ham (WH) not Leyton (T) so we were both wrong

 

[londonteacher]

About 25 are allocated to 97 hence they stray a lot onto the 96

That’s definitely not true! Different garages, different sides of the Thames.

 

[GusB]

Aha my bad there, got mistaken, it's run from WH not T so we were both wrong

For the benefit of those of us who aren't familiar with the lingo, please edit your post to include definitions for "WH" and "T", and make sure that such jargon is properly defined in future.

 

[Busaholic]

For the benefit of those of us who aren't familiar with the lingo, please edit your post to include definitions for "WH" and "T", and make sure that such jargon is properly defined in future.

WH is West Ham and T is Leyton. The WH code has covered different iterations of depot/garages in the broader West Ham area. whereas there's only been one T! The number of one letter codes remaining relating to London buses is small, smaller still those that remain on their original site.

 

[dmncf]

Is all the West Ham building an active bus garage? I believe there were plans to turn some of the buildings into TfL's lost property office, filling in some of the maintenance pits.

 

[MasterSpenny]

I wonder if the reverse is true - can a non-Superloop bus appear on an 'SL' route once all Superloop buses are branded?

It is true: WVN51 (Believe this is allocated to the 127) was on the SL7 earlier.

London Vehicle Finder

Search current and historic bus routes and locations in London, Reading, Edinburgh. Created to help photographers track down ellusive vehicles.

lvf.io

Vehicles that have also been on the route during the day :-​

Fleet	Reg	Used From	Used Until	Line
WVN51	BL61ADO	11:12	15:54
WVL486s	LJ61NWV	06:30	18:20
WVL487s	LJ61NVZ	04:45	17:27
WVL489s	LJ61NWB	00:00	14:49

 

[PGAT]

Apologies if this has already been asked but does anyone know what’s going on with the 151 and when the EVs will finally arrive?

 

[Notchapple]

Apologies if this has already been asked but does anyone know what’s going on with the 151 and when the EVs will finally arrive?

All the EVs that are earmarked for the route ie Ee172-186 have arrived and are being stored at Morden Wharf (MG) Garage.
The vehicles currently aren't suitable for the route and won't be used until the layout of the junction at Worcester Park Station is sorted (the car park may need redevelopment as well.)

This does mean the DOEs have experienced an extra few months in TFL operation and is likely to stay with us for at least a month or two.

 

[MotCO]

All the EVs that are earmarked for the route ie Ee172-186 have arrived and are being stored at Morden Wharf (MG) Garage.
The vehicles currently aren't suitable for the route and won't be used until the layout of the junction at Worcester Park Station is sorted (the car park may need redevelopment as well.)

This does mean the DOEs have experienced an extra few months in TFL operation and is likely to stay with us for at least a month or two.

Didn't they see some use on route 213 before the 213 received its own buses? Or are Ee172-186 the buses originally destined for the 213?

 

[Notchapple]

Didn't they see some use on route 213 before the 213 received its own buses? Or are Ee172-186 the buses originally destined for the 213?

Yes, Ee172-186 was originally intended for the 213 as its contract started 6 Months later in July whereas all the other routes based out of Sutton Garage started last December. The batch was switched with the 151s intended batch.(Ee138-153)

 

[Goldfish62]

All the EVs that are earmarked for the route ie Ee172-186 have arrived and are being stored at Morden Wharf (MG) Garage.
The vehicles currently aren't suitable for the route and won't be used until the layout of the junction at Worcester Park Station is sorted (the car park may need redevelopment as well.)

Not surprised. The left turn out of the station is very tight for a DOE.

 

[Mojo]

It was very strange to see a fully vinyld SL9 on Friday Night in Northolt with X140 on the blinds

Has anything actually changed with the service since it became Superloop, or is it still painfully slow? Looking at the timetables on Londonbusroutes.net, it still takes 59 Minutes to get from Harrow to Heathrow, double the time that it takes to drive and depending where in Harrow you are, the same time it takes to go from Rayners Lane to the airport on the Piccadilly line.

 

[PGAT]

I think SL8 and SL9 have had minor route changes to slightly optimise journey times but there haven't been any fundamental infrastructure changes such as new bus lanes.

 

[MasterSpenny]

Surprised to see Optare MetroDeckers ran on the 626 today now its with Metroline! Thought it was going to use EvoSetis (VMH2538 was on this morning though).

London Vehicle Finder

Search current and historic bus routes and locations in London, Reading, Edinburgh. Created to help photographers track down ellusive vehicles.

lvf.io

Metroline - Route 626​

Vehicles that have also been on the route during the day :-​

Fleet	Reg	Used From	Used Until	Line
VWH2005	LK14FAO	07:39	08:41	626
VMH2538	LF68PXP	07:36	08:41	626
OME2662	YJ19HVP	15:50	16:46	626
OME2663	YJ19HVR	07:34	08:36	626
OME2671	YJ69DFL	07:34	08:36	626
OME2674	Zero Emissions	15:40	16:50	626
OME2679	YJ69DFZ	15:30	16:52	626

 

[Surreyman]

Is all the West Ham building an active bus garage? I believe there were plans to turn some of the buildings into TfL's lost property office, filling in some of the maintenance pits.

A driver at West Ham has produced a number of Youtube commentaries on various aspects of bus operations at WH from the drivers perspective, he mentions that a sizeable part of WH is not in use by Stagecoach and is fenced off, he also says there is a rumour that Tfl want it back (they own the freehold and lease it to Stagecoach) - seems unlikely given that is probably the most modern depot in London and was the largest depot in the UK though I think Firsts Caledonia is probably now larger.
* Mods - the rumour about Tfl wanting WH back is just a rumour, it seems very unlikely but then we live in strange times!

 

[Simon75]

Thought all of London's garages are owned by the operators not TFL ?

 

[Busaholic]

I believe Waterloo is not owned by the GoAhead group.

Ash Grove is owned by London Buses.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Thought all of London's garages are owned by the operators not TFL ?

Isn't the fact that some at least of the garages are owned by the bus companies, not TfL, what allowed some of them to be sold off following the switch from publicly operated buses to franchised services?

 

[Surreyman]

Thought all of London's garages are owned by the operators not TFL ?

Most of them are; I believe Tfl own Fulwell (shared by RATP & Abellio), the Brixton Hill parking area, Ash Grove (shared by Arriva & Stagecoach) Walworth (Abellio) Edgware(shared by Metroline & RATP), Uxbridge, & West Ham. (list not exhaustive, may be others).
A few of the more recent depots are almost certainly leased rather than owned.

 

[Bedford OB]

Isn't the fact that some at least of the garages are owned by the bus companies, not TfL, what allowed some of them to be sold off following the switch from publicly operated buses to franchised services?

Garages which were held freehold at the time of privatisation were sold with the businesses when they were privatised. A number of the more recent sites were held leasehold, from LT (TfL) or from other parties, notably local authorities. Sites acquired of late will generally be leasehold.

 

[Notchapple]

Surprised to see Optare MetroDeckers ran on the 626 today now its with Metroline! Thought it was going to use EvoSetis (VMH2538 was on this morning though).

London Vehicle Finder

Search current and historic bus routes and locations in London, Reading, Edinburgh. Created to help photographers track down ellusive vehicles.

lvf.io

Not surprising as its crosslinked with the 134.

 

[Mikey C]

Isn't the fact that some at least of the garages are owned by the bus companies, not TfL, what allowed some of them to be sold off following the switch from publicly operated buses to franchised services?

And there's been the natural cycle of replacements as well, where new premises have opened and old ones shut.

 

[talldave]

I think SL8 and SL9 have had minor route changes to slightly optimise journey times but there haven't been any fundamental infrastructure changes such as new bus lanes.

On the SL7, they keep holding the buses at stops to "even out the service". This is infuriating on a journey that's taking 2 hours. The renaming without an X route number does seem to have removed any concept of "express" from the service. Another example of prioritising the contents of some internal spreadsheet over quality of service to passengers.

 

[Goldfish62]

On the SL7, they keep holding the buses at stops to "even out the service". This is infuriating on a journey that's taking 2 hours. The renaming without an X route number does seem to have removed any concept of "express" from the service. Another example of prioritising the contents of some internal spreadsheet over quality of service to passengers.

So they should be waiting. It's a timetabled service. The tolerance is no more than 2 min early departing a timing point. Outside London the rule is 1 min.

Now, whether the schedule is too slack in places is another matter, but the route is notoriously difficult to schedule accurately.

 

[PGAT]

Well the frequency has doubled so any time lost to slack would be made up for by less waiting for your bus

 

[Goldfish62]

Well the frequency has doubled so any time lost to slack would be made up for by less waiting for your bus

Doesn't matter. It's a timetabled low frequency service. Performance is measured based on on time departures as it is outside London.

 

[Deerfold]

So they should be waiting. It's a timetabled service. The tolerance is no more than 2 min early departing a timing point. Outside London the rule is 1 min.

Now, whether the schedule is too slack in places is another matter, but the route is notoriously difficult to schedule accurately.

The problem is that traffic levels vary enormously.

When to the service was hourly I was involved with putting the route on the the original Countdown system.
Before it used GPS it was essential to check buses were tracked properly and they would be watched on the system along the entire route. It wasn't unusual for two buses on the route to be following one another.

 

[Goldfish62]

The problem is that traffic levels vary enormously.

When to the service was hourly I was involved with putting the route on the the original Countdown system.
Before it used GPS it was essential to check buses were tracked properly and they would be watched on the system along the entire route. It wasn't unusual for two buses on the route to be following one another.

Agree. It's probably running the most reliably it ever has done at the moment.

 

[MasterSpenny]

Consultation for an extension on the E1 and a new school route numbered 618

Ealing and Hounslow - expanding bus services E1 extension and new school route 618

Transport for London warmly invite you to tell us what you think of our proposals to expand bus services in Ealing and Hounslow. We are proposing to extend the E1 bus route from Ealing Broadway to Osterley Tesco and introduce a new school bus route 618 between Ivybridge

haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk

Ealing and Hounslow - expanding bus services E1 extension and new school route 618​

Transport for London warmly invite you to tell us what you think of our proposals to expand bus services in Ealing and Hounslow.
We are proposing to extend the E1 bus route from Ealing Broadway to Osterley Tesco and introduce a new school bus route 618 between Ivybridge Estate and Syon Lane, near Bolder Academy and Nishkam School.

Proposals​

Background​

How you can find out more​

Tell us your views​

What happens next​

Proposals​

1. Introduce a new school bus service for Bolder Academy and Nishkam School in Isleworth​

(click on map for larger image)
Transport for London are thinking of starting a new school bus service between Ivybridge Estate and Syon Lane (near Bolder Academy and Nishkam School).
School route 618 would run from Ivybridge Estate via Twickenham Road, Worton Road, Bridge Road and Syon Lane.
There would be two journeys each school day, one in the morning (to Syon Lane) and one in the afternoon (to Ivybridge Estate).
Subject to consultation, the service would start running in early 2024.This route would use the same roads and bus stops as the H28 in this area.
Route 618 would provide new direct links to Isleworth schools for students living south of Syon Lane, along London Road, Bridge Road, Worton Road, Twickenham Road and Summerwood Road.

2. Proposal to extend E1 from Ealing Broadway to Osterley Tesco​

(click on map for larger image)
To improve links to Ealing Broadway, we’re proposing to extend the E1 bus route via Ealing Road, Great West Road and Syon Lane.
This would offer new direct links and extra capacity between north and south Ealing, between Greenford, Drayton Green, Ealing Broadway, South Ealing, North Brentford, Great West Road and Osterley.
The E1 bus route currently runs from Greenford, Clifton Road to Ealing Broadway, Haven Green.

Background​

Buses play a crucial role in making London a more prosperous city, connecting Londoners to their work, education, families, friends, shopping, and leisure.
London’s bus network is our most affordable and accessible type of public transport. It’s a sustainable alternative to cars, for journeys that can’t be walked or cycled.
We continuously review and adapt the bus network to reflect changing customer needs. So, buses are where our customers need them most, including serving new homes and expanding schools.
The Mayor’s committed to expanding outer London’s bus network, to strengthen alternatives to private cars and maximise the benefits of expanding the Ultra Low Emission Zone.
Our Bus Action Plan(External link) is about increasing the number of bus journeys, by making bus travel better, faster and greener. We continue to grow our fleet of zero-emission buses, with over 950 so far. The whole fleet will be converted by 2034 (possibly 2030, subject to government funding). Other projects include 12% more countdown signs at bus stops in every London borough.

How you can find out more​

We have provided more information to help you respond, and we want this consultation to be accessible to everyone. Visit the document library for:

• Our initial Equalities Impact Assessment document
• Maps showing the existing and proposed route
• A copy of our consultation survey in case you would prefer to respond in writing
• An Easy Read version of our proposals
• An Easy Read version of our survey
• British Sign Language (BSL) videos about our proposals and survey
• Audio versions of our proposals and survey
• Frequently asked questions
• Ask us a question via question tool

If you need to translate this page into another language, please use the ‘Select language’ button at the bottom of this page.

Connecting with London's deaf community on our consultations​

To enhance how we engage and consult with London's deaf community we are trialling a British Sign Language (BSL) consultation conversation service. This service will allow us to have a two-way BSL translated discussion on any aspect of this consultation with a BSL speaker.
To request a BSL consultation conversation please contact us at [email protected] and we will be in contact to arrange this at a convenient time.
Following this trial, we will evaluate the service to determine if this is something we are able to offer on other consultations in the future.

What happens next​

We’ll consider all the responses we receive and prepare a consultation report after the consultation ends on Wednesday 18 October 2023. The report will be published on our website in late 2023.

• Tell us your views
• Ask us a question

Tell us your views​

We are holding an six-week public consultation to hear what you think about these proposals. We want to know if you agree with them, if there is anything you do not agree with, and to understand the reasons why you feel this way.
You can reply by completing our survey, which should take no more than 10 minutes to complete. The closing date for comments is Wednesday 18 October 2023.
To take part in our online survey you will need to register with your email address. Your details will be kept secure.
If you prefer, you can also:

• Email: [email protected]
• Telephone: 020 3054 6037 to leave your name and contact number and we will call you back. Please quote ‘Bus routes E1, 618’ when leaving your message
• Write to: FREEPOST TfL HAVE YOUR SAY (no postage stamp required)

Please note responses to the survey may be made publicly available after the consultation has closed, this would typically be in the form of a report on the results of the consultation exercise, but any personal information will be kept confidential. Your personal information will be properly safeguarded and processed in accordance with the requirements of privacy and data protection legislation. For further information, please visit our privacy policy.