December 2023 Timetable Change

[Howardh]

It can be, and has only been, 3 or 6 coaches, as only 185s in TPE's fleet go to Saltburn.

My other trips on a 5-coacher would have had another destination then!

 

[JonathanH]

My other trips on a 5-coacher would have had another destination then!

Yes, and in the case of a 5-car 802 have almost as many seats than a pair of 3-car 185s.

 

[geoffk]

Oh yeah forgot about Guards contracts. That also prevents Northern from increasing their Sunday services.

Once all the Gaurds/Drivers on First North Western/Northern Rail terms have retired then the Northern network may have a chance at having an hourly Sunday service on services like Stoke stoppers.

Shame XC won't fill in the gaps at some of Northern's busiest stations on the route, but nothing can be done about that.

Didn't XC call at Congleton a few times a day on Sundays?

 

[Jamesrob637]

Didn't XC call at Congleton a few times a day on Sundays?

The 08:00 arrival and 17:27 departure from Manchester used to call there on Monday to Saturday, however I'm unaware of anything calling there on Sundays.

 

[jfollows]

It's a shame that the Congleton stops have gone.
When Macclesfield was my local station, Congleton used to have a daily service to/from London.
When I lived in Manchester I once went to Congleton by XC to walk back to Macclesfield for a day out, it was a nice way of doing it.
Now XC has got rid of its Wilmslow calls - before Covid there was an up morning service to Bristol, a down morning service from Birmingham and an up evening service to Bournemouth. The latter two were pulled "because of Covid" and never came back.

 

[Jamesrob637]

It's a shame that the Congleton stops have gone.
When Macclesfield was my local station, Congleton used to have a daily service to/from London.
When I lived in Manchester I once went to Congleton by XC to walk back to Macclesfield for a day out, it was a nice way of doing it.
Now XC has got rid of its Wilmslow calls - before Covid there was an up morning service to Bristol, a down morning service from Birmingham and an up evening service to Bournemouth. The latter two were pulled "because of Covid" and never came back.

Does XC still make a couple of Crewe calls, or have some returned this week?

 

[JW4]

Does XC still make a couple of Crewe calls, or have some returned this week?

1O04 and 1H17 (Monday to Saturday) and 1O10 (Sunday only) call at Crewe, so still a couple.

1O10 on Sunday is 08:26 from Manchester to Bournemouth, departing Crewe at 09:03.

 

[Jamesrob637]

1O04 and 1H17 call at Crewe, so still a couple

Thanks. Some on here might not be familiar with codes, and I was only able to decipher using Real Time Trains! For clarity, these are the 05:11 Manchester to Bournemouth at 05:46, and the 07:26 from Birmingham to Manchester at 08:23.
Bit strange that the 17:27 Manchester to Bournemouth doesn't stop at 18:00ish like it used to though, that would've been the most ideal commuter train for those finishing at 17h in Manchester city centre: XC would be quite a pleasant commute 1-3 times a week.

 

[JW4]

Bit strange that the 17:27 Manchester to Bournemouth doesn't stop at 18:00ish like it used to though, that would've been the most ideal commuter train for those finishing at 17h in Manchester city centre: XC would be quite a pleasant commute 1-3 times a week.

It passes through Crewe in the new timetable, wonder why it doesn’t call. Passes through Wilmslow as well. (Now the 17:25 off Manchester to Bournemouth).

 

[Jamesrob637]

It passes through Crewe in the new timetable, wonder why it doesn’t call. Passes through Wilmslow as well. (Now the 17:25 off Manchester to Bournemouth).

I caught it once from Wilmslow after work there one day. Was a very handy connection to Reading without having to change in the Midlands.

 

[The Planner]

It passes through Crewe in the new timetable, wonder why it doesn’t call. Passes through Wilmslow as well. (Now the 17:25 off Manchester to Bournemouth).

Its a bit tight at Wilmslow with the TfW behind it. It clashes with the Edinburgh Euston via Birmingham if it stops at Crewe.

 

[craigybagel]

Its a bit tight at Wilmslow with the TfW behind it. It clashes with the Edinburgh Euston via Birmingham if it stops at Crewe.

Indeed, when that XC did stop at Wilmslow an and Crewe the TfW would frequently get signal checked on the approach to both stations.

On the other hand, it did provide a handy relief for TfW's busiest departure of the day on that route, given how many passengers for Wilmslow and Crewe normally use that service every other hour.

 

[infobleep]

Apparently the North Downs Line service enhancement was not entirely funded by GWR savings elsewhere. At least according to what Gatwick Airport claims.

More services between Reading and Gatwick Airport as new December… | London Gatwick

Travelling to Gatwick from Reading just got a lot easier. Partly funded by London Gatwick, the service to and from our newly refurbished train station is now doubled. We're dedicated to improving our already extensive sustainable connectivity. More than 40% of our passengers travel to the...

www.linkedin.com

I wonder if they get any compensation when they don't run two an hour?

The service seems better today.
The LinkedIn post linked to the GWR press released, issued on Sunday.
I've quoted some sections from it.

Great Western Railway is to double the number of direct trains between Reading and Gatwick Airport as part of its new December timetable.

Two trains an hour will now operate to/from the airport Monday to Saturday, extending the service which currently terminates at Redhill, making a half-hourly direct service and reflecting the airport’s welcome recovery in passenger numbers.

Services have also been slightly retimed to even out the timetable and give a regular xx24 and xx54 departure from Reading, and a xx29 and xx59 departure from Gatwick.

Hannah Godfrey, Senior Surface Access Manager, London Gatwick said:

“A train leaves Gatwick every four minutes – as frequent as the London Underground – and we continue to work closely with train operators to improve this even further, particularly with the increased capacity provided by our new station concourse, which opened in November.”

More services between Reading and Gatwick Airport as new December timetable kicks in | GWR News

Great Western Railway is to double the number of direct trains between Reading and Gatwick Airport as part of its new December timetable.

news.gwr.com

They forgot the small print which states during a minor number of hours there will only be one train an hour and occasionally they don't depart Gatwick Airport at x29.

Most hours they arrive into and depart Guildford at a uniform time but less so in the evening.

In future I might go for the 18:59 Gatwick Airport to Guildford because if I am going to be delayed, I'd rather it was over 30 minutes than 29 minutes. The next two trains after that includes waits of just under 30 minutes if one is cancelled.

I am really happy with this change and to celebrate I'm travelling on one of the newly timed services today. Shame I couldn't celebrate yesterday, the day it started.

 

[Mamorin]

Didn't XC call at Congleton a few times a day on Sundays?

No they didn't, the XC calls were 3 peak hours calls only Monday-Saturday.

Edit:just noticed somebody already relied to you post on this my bad.

 

[jfollows]

Indeed, when that XC did stop at Wilmslow an and Crewe the TfW would frequently get signal checked on the approach to both stations.

On the other hand, it did provide a handy relief for TfW's busiest departure of the day on that route, given how many passengers for Wilmslow and Crewe normally use that service every other hour.

I only used the up evening XC to Wilmslow once, when we'd had a day drinking in Manchester so we bought First Class singles for the XC service home. But it always held up the Cardiff service 3 minutes behind it, for sure.

 

[Mamorin]

The 08:00 arrival and 17:27 departure from Manchester used to call there on Monday to Saturday, however I'm unaware of anything calling there on Sundays.

The services were:

06:58 Congleton to Manchester Piccadilly Monday-Saturday (Started at New Street)
18:57 Congleton to Bournemouth (Started at Piccadilly) Monday-Friday.
17:57 Congleton to New Street (Started at Piccadilly) Saturday only
18:57 Congleton to New Street (Started at Piccadilly) Saturday only

Don't know the start times of these services from New Street or Piccadilly so used times from Congleton instead.

 

[Jamesrob637]

The services were:

06:58 Congleton to Manchester Piccadilly Monday-Saturday (Started at New Street)
18:57 Congleton to Bournemouth (Started at Piccadilly) Monday-Friday.
17:57 Congleton to New Street (Started at Piccadilly) Saturday only
18:57 Congleton to New Street (Started at Piccadilly) Saturday only

Don't know the start times of these services from New Street or Piccadilly so used times from Congleton instead.

Thanks: I was getting my weekdays and Saturdays a bit muddled up but had a general idea!

 

[Mamorin]

It's a shame that the Congleton stops have gone.
When Macclesfield was my local station, Congleton used to have a daily service to/from London.
When I lived in Manchester I once went to Congleton by XC to walk back to Macclesfield for a day out, it was a nice way of doing it.

It is a shame the Congleton XC calls have gone, they were quite popular with local commuters from what I've been told.

As for the London service, hoo boy was that an interesting service, locomotive had to over shoot and the service made Congleton an Intercity station must have been one of the very few non interchange intercity stations.

While the reduction of XC services to just a few a day from once every two hours at Congleton in 2008 was a shame Congleton at least got the hourly service Monday-Saturday from that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Dec 2023 ==

Thanks: I was getting my weekdays and Saturdays a bit muddled up but had a general idea!

Your welcome, XC's service at Congleton was limited so getting weekdays and Saturdays muddled up is ok.

 

[dk1]

The 08:00 arrival and 17:27 departure from Manchester used to call there on Monday to Saturday, however I'm unaware of anything calling there on Sundays.

Yes was going to use the latter once after ticking the Spoon.

 

[northwichcat]

It is a shame the Congleton XC calls have gone, they were quite popular with local commuters from what I've been told.

Didn't the XC calls at Congleton go when Northern's Manchester to Stoke stopper became a full hourly service? I seem to recall Congleton got more services stopping there in total but lost the through services to Birmingham.

 

[Mamorin]

Didn't the XC calls at Congleton go when Northern's Manchester to Stoke stopper became a full hourly service? I seem to recall Congleton got more services stopping there in total but lost the through services to Birmingham.

XC just cut the calls back from 1tp2h to a few limited peak hour calls when the Congleton got a hourly stopping service.

Congleton MP requests confirmation that town's Cross Country service will be reinstated

Congleton's MP has written to the Department of Transport requesting confirmation that the town's Cross Country train service will be reinstated as soon as it's practicable.

congleton.nub.news

Fun fact the XC calls at Congleton actually continued until October 2020 at least southbound anyway, got sent a photo from somebody at the time showing an 8 or 9 car voyager at Congleton. Sure it could not fit on the platform but it showed XC could call at Congleton but XC and the DFT did not want and still do want XC to call at Congleton ever again.

 

[Falcon1200]

It passes through Crewe in the new timetable, wonder why it doesn’t call.

It didn't call at Crewe in the previous timetable!

It clashes with the Edinburgh Euston via Birmingham if it stops at Crewe.

I was on that very Edinburgh-Euston in September, en route to Oxford, when I saw (to my surprise) from RTT an XC service also approaching Crewe. So I alighted at Crewe only to witness the XC pass through without stopping. Fortunately I had time to rejoin the Edinburgh-Euston and revert to the original plan to change at New St for a later XC.

 

[jfollows]

It didn't call at Crewe in the previous timetable!

It stopped calling with the December 2021 timetable; until and including the May 2021 timetable it is shown as calling at Wilmslow 17:43-17:45 and Crewe 18:05-18:07. However Covid caused the Wilmslow stop to be removed in 2020 (never to be reinstated) so the timetable doesn't reflect reality; I'm not sure about the "booked" Crewe stop.
EDIT This service is only diverted via Wilmslow to free up a path for 2K50, 17:18 Piccadilly-Stoke, which is the extra rush hour stopper, which still has to hide in the back platform at Macclesfield for 1A69 17:35 Piccadilly-Euston to pass there (when 1A69 runs, unlike today).

 

[Watershed]

Thanks. Some on here might not be familiar with codes, and I was only able to decipher using Real Time Trains! For clarity, these are the 05:11 Manchester to Bournemouth at 05:46, and the 07:26 from Birmingham to Manchester at 08:23.
Bit strange that the 17:27 Manchester to Bournemouth doesn't stop at 18:00ish like it used to though, that would've been the most ideal commuter train for those finishing at 17h in Manchester city centre: XC would be quite a pleasant commute 1-3 times a week.

The 17:27 (now 17:25) has performance allowances in lieu of its Wilmslow and Crewe stops. For the life of me I cannot see any justification for this given that it still stops at Stockport and that all other XC services stop at the likes of Macclesfield and Stoke.

It would provide a much needed extra bit of commuter capacity, especially since the 17:30 TfW service is often just a 2 car 150 or 197 - wholly unsuitable for the time of day, with people often left behind or standing until Crewe.

 

[Kite159]

It is a shame the Congleton XC calls have gone, they were quite popular with local commuters from what I've been told.

Local people prefering the fast service rather than a stopper in many parts of the country, just look at Birmingham - Wolverhampton where they will crowd onto the voyagers because they are "nonstop"

 

[Mamorin]

Oh I've seen people on social media on services at Birmingham saying they prefer the fast XC "non stop" services…. Well its more people who use XC services at Birmingham complaining about how crowed the services are.

If it was possible (which its not) I feel that Congleton would be better with an hourly XC service in each direction days a week rather than the hourly Northern stopping service.

As my guess is most commuters from Congleton are going to ether Macclesfield, Stockport and Manchester piccadilly Northbound and Stoke southbound. Its not like the loss of the Northern only stations would hurt too much.

The morning peak XC service at Congleton was used by 50+ people, not bad for a local station at just before 7am, evening peak XC services to Congleton were 100+ passengers.

Northern have filled in the gap left by XC at Congleton a bit with their peak extras, but I think XC should have reinstated their calls at Congleton even if it was just the evening peek only calls.

 

[Kite159]

XC have enough overcrowding issues already without calling at any more stations to add more passengers.

 

[Sunil_P]

GWR say today's cancellations (plural) on the North Downs are due to a shortage of staff.

They need to invest in some taller staff!

 

[infobleep]

Local people prefering the fast service rather than a stopper in many parts of the country, just look at Birmingham - Wolverhampton where they will crowd onto the voyagers because they are "nonstop"

Perhaps they could remove some other station calling points to help with this overcrowding.

 

[Kite159]

Perhaps they could remove some other station calling points to help with this overcrowding.

Agreed, removing Wolverhampton & Coventry would solve a lot of overcrowding within the West Midlands corridor