Progress on Avanti West Coast's 805/807s Hitachi AT300 sets

[43102EMR]

Does anyone know what first class menu they're gonna use on the new trains? Will it be more the Pendolino menu or the Voyager menu?

I rode first earlier this morning - take your ticket to the onboard shop and they’ll give you a meal deal choice (sandwich, snack and a drink)

 

[Benjwri]

The “traction motors“ are used the same way in diesel and electric modes. Your point is surely referring to the “generator units”.

Yes, a misspeak, should’ve gone to bed earlier.

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes, a misspeak, should’ve gone to bed earlier.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

1D83 seems to have extended dwell times at stations. Maybe this is because it’s new. With 12-car 745s we’ve got it down to around 45secs if running late to recover time but then if there’s disabled passengers we don’t need to worry about ramps.

1D83 (805 001 leading, 004 at the back) was delayed from Crewe by the preceding Crewe-Milford Haven 197, and then again at Saltney Jn.
The support staff were talking about a 35mph speed restriction near the site of the earlier track fault.
I only went as far as Flint, but the conductor was busy telling people not to use the last 4 coaches (ie most of the trailing set) because of a short platform.
It's also the kind of day when large numbers of folk are travelling, with babies, bikes and luggage, and they were none too sure of how things work.

The seats were very good I thought, with table and aligned windows where I was on 001 (plug/usb power in the table lip).
The train was smooth enough on CWR but clanked over pointwork like any 80x does.
Seemed quite sprightly on diesel, having no trouble reaching cruising speed on the North Wales main line (75/90mph).
The PIS was not set up right, with echoes and a lot of feedback and whistles evident.
The train was described as "brand new", although it must have a lot of miles under its belt already.

With many TfW 197s, Northern's 195s and Merseyrail's 777s in evidence, there was a lot of new stock visible at Chester today.

 

[Railperf]

OKay, so todays run from Euston - 1302 - has lost around 6 minutes to Stafford due to having ro run at 110mph PS limits as opposed to the 125mph MU profile which is not cleared yet. It doesn't look like any otherer trains are or will be delayed by this.

 

[Elorith]

Also does anyone know what method of Guard operation is being used on these? Guard Open Guard Close? Driver Open Guard Close? Or Ten Bell Despatch like on the Voyagers?

Driver Open Guard Close. The TM does however have the ability to re-release the doors during dispatch if necessary.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Everos are similar to other 80x though in terms of the bland interior when compared against the 390s.

More colours on the panelling and grab poles would have been good to see instead of sterile white

Yes I said as much in a separate conversation earlier. Nicely done, but looking just so much more copy/paste, sterile and clinical compared to the 390 interior. I maintain my opinion that the Pendolino has a more welcoming, nicer interior.

 

[The Planner]

Not much good if Rugby to Birmingham New Street is blocked

They couldnt divert a lot even with Voyagers.

 

[AlterEgo]

I rode first earlier this morning - take your ticket to the onboard shop and they’ll give you a meal deal choice (sandwich, snack and a drink)

That surely is not the planned method of providing first class service?

 

[hexagon789]

That surely is not the planned method of providing first class service?

On Voyagers, which these are effectively acting as now in terms of amenities, it was always collect from the shop on weekends.

 

[DaveyJones]

OKay, so todays run from Euston - 1302 - has lost around 6 minutes to Stafford due to having ro run at 110mph PS limits as opposed to the 125mph MU profile which is not cleared yet. It doesn't look like any otherer trains are or will be delayed by this.

There is a 20mph ESR on the DF at Armitage

 

[AlterEgo]

On Voyagers, which these are effectively acting as now in terms of amenities, it was always collect from the shop on weekends.

Got you. Makes sense - I forgot it was Sunday.

 

[Railperf]

There is a 20mph ESR on the DF at Armitage

Thanks. That would not have helped. Anyone know why the 10.36 Crewe to Holyhead seemed to lose time?

 

[baker_06]

Driver release, guard close (same as a 390). RA dispatch where RA is available.

I see these trains have brand new automated announcements. Tanya Rich is the voice on these trains.

Also does anyone know what method of Guard operation is being used on these? Guard Open Guard Close? Driver Open Guard Close? Or Ten Bell Despatch like on the Voyagers?

 

[Railperf]

Thanks. That would not have helped. Anyone know why the 10.36 Crewe to Holyhead seemed to lose time?

Same unit has lost 10 minutes between Holyhead and Crewe on its way to Euston. GU issues already?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Thanks. That would not have helped. Anyone know why the 10.36 Crewe to Holyhead seemed to lose time?

As I've posted, it was delayed by a TfW 197 between Crewe and Chester, and at Saltney Jn.
There was a 35 mph TSR where the track fault closed the up line for 2 hours or more.
Complications of 10-cars in short platforms.
Lots of "tourists", generally mucked about by late running everywhere.
When under power, it felt pretty nimble on the 75/90mph line.

The return working (1A42) started 6 down at Holyhead, was 15 down at Chester/Crewe and appears to be losing more time in the Trent Valley.

 

[Winthorpe]

Thanks. That would not have helped. Anyone know why the 10.36 Crewe to Holyhead seemed to lose time?

The + 4 delay to Chester was probably caused by the safety inspection between Crewe and Chester this morning. See post 2,306.

 

[YorksLad12]

I managed to catch the 11:15 today from Wolverhampton to Coventry, the train coped quite well with the crowds considering it was 5 carriages, and I found them to be more pleasant lighting-wise than the other IETs, and the PIS screens are very clear and make it much easier to figure out your coach compared with the voyagers. Ride quality seemed decent, and there was 36cm of legroom in a standard airline seat. Window alignment was fantastic too.

Overall, they seem like a good overall product, and I’m looking forward to them fully being in service!

So far, so normal (Azuma user here, plus the occasional TPE 802). Plug sockets on the back of the seat in front is a way better idea than having to fiddle around under your own seat!

 

[RexMundi]

I doubt any Avanti drivers would be trained from Nuneaton to Birmingham anyway, it's not electrified so could only be operated by the 805s so would be a minimal service.

Lots of Avanti drivers sign it as a diversionary route

 

[Efini92]

Lots of Avanti drivers sign it as a diversionary route

Only wolves depot, and even then there’s loads that don’t.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

So far, so normal (Azuma user here, plus the occasional TPE 802). Plug sockets on the back of the seat in front is a way better idea than having to fiddle around under your own seat!

Tables had plug and USB sockets in the lip of the table by the window, easily accessible.
Plus a couple of charging circles on the table itself.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Possibly slightly more informed than mere speculation, but if Avanti continues to run it's course (i.e. the next government doesn't intervene) - I very strongly suspect that the first class on these routes will continue to be deliberately run down - it's a real negative cabin downgrade even compared to a Voyager, and substantially poorer than a Pendolino, it looks and feels cheap, and the seat is, by any measure, definitely not one acceptable for InterCity first class. I've never seen such a thin seat base. There is recline available, the pitch of which reminds me of the "recline" that the Class 350s had, (and it's not very obvious that the lever for it is there!)

Other small, niggly issues like the fact they're still providing only old style and slow USB A charging ports, despite USB-C being mandated across Europe, and will quickly make them pretty useless. Just no thought or money put into the experience. Yes they have wireless table charging, but from the looks of it, they are fairly poor quality/ancient tech with very low voltage, as it won't even fast charge a reasonably modern selection of devices.

The catering arrangements on Voyagers had been getting run down for months - having to collect your own refreshments from the shop. The problem now is the shop is even further away from First - given the carriage lengths.

Watch this carriage get converted to "Standard Premium" and first class abolished entirely once the regular first class passengers vote with their feet.

 

[Railperf]

As I've posted, it was delayed by a TfW 197 between Crewe and Chester, and at Saltney Jn.
There was a 35 mph TSR where the track fault closed the up line for 2 hours or more.
Complications of 10-cars in short platforms.
Lots of "tourists", generally mucked about by late running everywhere.
When under power, it felt pretty nimble on the 75/90mph line.

The return working (1A42) started 6 down at Holyhead, was 15 down at Chester/Crewe and appears to be losing more time in the Trent Valley

Provided it gets a clear path from Stafford it shouldn't lose any more time. The current Stafford to Euston schedule (1h22 min) is designed for limited 125mph running on the yet to be activated MU speed profile. This includes four minutes engineering allowances. I've seen 1 hr 21 mins passing Stafford on a 110mph loco hauled train to Euston, so an extra minute for a start from Stafford would equal a clear 110mph path, excluding any TSR's delays en route.

RTT isn't indicating what's on the 1601 Euston to Chester. IS it an 805?

 

[hexagon789]

RTT isn't indicating what's on the 1601 Euston to Chester. IS it an 805?

221110 I believe.

 

[Scotrail314209]

The catering arrangements on Voyagers had been getting run down for months - having to collect your own refreshments from the shop. The problem now is the shop is even further away from First - given the carriage lengths.

I think this one wasn’t Avanti’s doing, as I did several FC trips under Virgin on the Voyagers, and it was always collect from the shop on the weekends. I do agree they should at least be doing an at-seat service in First on the Voyagers/805s to at least partly match the Pendolino.

 

[Mikey C]

Not a bad looking product by any means. I do hope to try them out one day, but in my heart I honestly don't expect it to be better than the Pendolino. At the least the interiors match though, cause that way the level of comfort can be somewhat comparable (except maybe in First Class, Pendolinos easily win out there).

Bigger windows, more legroom and a less claustrophobic feel will be "ticks" for the new trains against the 390s.

 

[Watershed]

A 'train fault' led the already-delayed 17:01 Euston to Holyhead & Wrexham to come to an unscheduled halt at Milton Keynes. The coach lettering is all over the place - A, B, C, D, J and L, M, N, P, K (J and K being 1st) and the interior still has quite a bit of snagging to do - random strips of fabric hanging down from windows, masking tape on the walls etc.

As for whoever was in charge of the auto-announcer & PA system... they should be shot at dawn! Terrible echo, and stilted announcements with poor pronunciation of the Welsh station names. 80x's are otherwise generally OK on that front - what on earth went wrong here? The sinks in the accessible WC are also ridiculously low - don't remember other 80x ones being that bad.

On the plus side, most of the seats in coaches D and P are arranged around tables for 4 with perfect window alignment, and there's plenty of space between the seatbacks for luggage. The ride quality is also decent although it did jolt on a couple of rough sections of track that I've never noticed before on Pendolini & Voyagers. Some of the airline-style seats have no window view whatsoever though

 

[Whistler40145]

What's the ride like at speed as I've found Pendolinos to slightly vibrate at higher speeds.

 

[Sorcerer]

Bigger windows, more legroom and a less claustrophobic feel will be "ticks" for the new trains against the 390s.

The bigger windows will definitely be a step above the 390 for most passengers, but I'm not sure about the better legroom and claustrophobic feel. If my experience on an 802 is anything to go by, it'll be adequate, but not vastly better by any stretch. That's only for standard class though; first class offerings don't look or sounds too promising so far, but to be fair, the 805s should really be compared to the Voyagers rather than the Pendolinos since that's what they'll be replacing at the end of the day. For all we know it could end up being an improvement, downgrade or similar level of service.

 

[gabrielhj07]

RTT isn't indicating what's on the 1601 Euston to Chester. IS it an 805?

Yes, 221110.