Progress on Avanti West Coast's 805/807s Hitachi AT300 sets

[Trainbike46]

The bigger windows will definitely be a step above the 390 for most passengers, but I'm not sure about the better legroom and claustrophobic feel. If my experience on an 802 is anything to go by, it'll be adequate, but not vastly better by any stretch. That's only for standard class though; first class offerings don't look or sounds too promising so far, but to be fair, the 805s should really be compared to the Voyagers rather than the Pendolinos since that's what they'll be replacing at the end of the day. For all we know it could end up being an improvement, downgrade or similar level of service.

Well, I have hit my head on the ceiling in a pendolino (coach C, to be exact), but I've never even got close to managing that on an 80x; the bodyshell of the 80x is objectively larger than for the pendolino, so it is less claustrophobic, as well as having more useful overhead luggage racks.

One massive advantage they'll bring to New Street in particular is that unlike the 221s, the 805/807s won't make the place smell of diesel fumes (the air quality on the platforms there is abysmal, and less stink will be nice

 

[Sorcerer]

Well, I have hit my head on the ceiling in a pendolino (coach C, to be exact), but I've never even got close to managing that on an 80x; the bodyshell of the 80x is objectively larger than for the pendolino, so it is less claustrophobic, as well as having more useful overhead luggage racks.

I didn't really think of the standing up part, I was thinking more of the sitting down experience where the seats would be similarly close together. I'm quite tall myself though but apparently not enough to bang my head so I'll never be able to argue with you on that one.

 

[hexagon789]

The coach lettering is all over the place - A, B, C, D, J and L, M, N, P, K (J and K being 1st)

That's the correct arrangement actually and not a bug -

According to the seating plan, J is First Class when A-D is Standard, and K is First when L-P is Std.

 

[Carlisle]

The current Stafford to Euston schedule (1h22 min) is designed for limited 125mph running on the yet to be activated MU speed profile.

If there were significant journey time improvements from raising a few bits of WCML to 125, would anyone have wasted £millions on APTs or Pendilino’s .?

 

[Winthorpe]

The coach lettering is all over the place - A, B, C, D, J and L, M, N, P, K (J and K being 1st) a

That's from the 'Get to know our Evero trains' .pdf accessed from this page:

Evero

www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk

 

[clchloe]

Went to Holyhead and back on 805 004, the units are lovely and the interiors are great. Bilingual announcements, but there's also a BTP and a safety announcement at every single station, by the time we'd left Llandudno Jn. and the announcements were finished we were already arriving into Colwyn Bay (and I thought 197s had excessive announcements...). Quiet up to Holyhead but absolutely packed full on the way back.

 

[Watershed]

That's the correct arrangement actually and not a bug -

According to the seating plan, J is First Class when A-D is Standard, and K is First when L-P is Std.

I know - what I'm saying is, it's a completely unintuitive coach lettering sequence!

 

[800001]

I know - what I'm saying is, it's a completely unintuitive coach lettering sequence!

It will be so a 5 car 805 can substitute for an 807 if needed.

Similar to how messy LNER 9 cars are

 

[krus_aragon]

It will be so a 5 car 805 can substitute for an 807 if needed.

Similar to how messy LNER 9 cars are

But why is the additional First Class car given 'K', instead of a letter that follows after 'P'?

 

[sh24]

Almost as confusing as Pendolinos having coach U in the middle of the train.

 

[Railperf]

View attachment 159294


That's from the 'Get to know our Evero trains' .pdf accessed from this page:

which will normally be the unreserved coaches?

If there were significant journey time improvements from raising a few bits of WCML to 125, would anyone have wasted £millions on APTs or Pendilino’s .?

A Class 390 would be 11 minutes faster from London to Stafford alone and close to 15 minutes faster London to Crewe. All the additinal incremental speed increases north of Crewe made it possible to knock half an hour off London to Glasgow journey times.

 

[RealTrains07]

View attachment 159294


That's from the 'Get to know our Evero trains' .pdf accessed from this page:

Thats very bizarre especially K after P. Can imagine customers will find it odd as well

 

[Winthorpe]

which will normally be the unreserved coaches?

Unless I've missed it, neither the web page nor the document mentions if any coaches are unreserved.

It just mentions the traffic light seat reservation system.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If there were significant journey time improvements from raising a few bits of WCML to 125, would anyone have wasted £millions on APTs or Pendilino’s .?

No improvements visible today, far from it. Most 805s seem to lose time on all sections.
Most of the WCML upgrade money went on renewing the track, signalling and wires for 125mph, not much on the tilt system.
The 125mph available to 80x, when it comes in (30 miles or so?), will be significantly less than available to 390s (about 130 miles) south of Crewe.

 

[Elorith]

I believe the "collect-from-shop" service in First class is only a temporary measure.

Not enough catering staff have been trained on them yet.

Went to Holyhead and back on 805 004, the units are lovely and the interiors are great. Bilingual announcements, but there's also a BTP and a safety announcement at every single station, by the time we'd left Llandudno Jn. and the announcements were finished we were already arriving into Colwyn Bay (and I thought 197s had excessive announcements...). Quiet up to Holyhead but absolutely packed full on the way back.

A lot of TMs will turn off the announcements, but this is definitely something that needs looking at. They are also really really loud.

 

[dk1]

Almost as confusing as Pendolinos having coach U in the middle of the train.

But wasn’t having F & U together just one of those wonderful Virgin gimmicks?

 

[Lewisham2221]

But why is the additional First Class car given 'K', instead of a letter that follows after 'P'?

So that you just remember that H, J and K are first class and everything else is standard, I assume

 

[Adam Williams]

As for whoever was in charge of the auto-announcer & PA system... they should be shot at dawn! Terrible echo

Yeah, I found this really quite poor. The chime/attention signal sound is too loud and sounds wrong too.

Other teething problems:

• Doors like to close very quickly, including on disembarking wheelchair passengers. Staff did manage to isolate the door to stop this happening, but the whole ramp procedure seems like much more of a faff on these.
• Reservation system was completely broken, with all reservations displays showing as unavailable. Given it's Avanti, this didn't surprise me, but disappointing given it's supposed to be state-of-the-art.
  • 
• Even the station dispatch staff who came to try the first class carriage I was in whilst the train was stood at the platform weren't impressed with the seats!
• According to sources online, standard class seats get dimmable lights - first class seemingly get nothing? Not sure if I missed something

 

[800001]

Yeah, I found this really quite poor. The chime/attention signal sound is too loud and sounds wrong too.

Other teething problems:

• Doors like to close very quickly, including on disembarking wheelchair passengers. Staff did manage to isolate the door to stop this happening, but the whole ramp procedure seems like much more of a faff on these.
• Reservation system was completely broken, with all reservations displays showing as unavailable. Given it's Avanti, this didn't surprise me, but disappointing given it's supposed to be state-of-the-art.
  • 
• Even the station dispatch staff who came to try the first class carriage I was in whilst the train was stood at the platform weren't impressed with the seats!
• According to sources online, standard class seats get dimmable lights - first class seemingly get nothing? Not sure if I missed something

Staff should be isolating the door before they deploy the wheelchair ramps on these trains, exactly the same as all other 8XX varieties.

Process is:-

T-Key to isolate door close procedure
Unlock the ramp attachment on train flip over (so station ramp can attach)

Assist passsnger on board

Refold ramp attachment and lock
T-Key to reactivate the door close procedure

If station teams to not isolate the door when they are doing a passenger assist with a ramp, then the door will attempt to close like all the other doors do after a set period of time.

 

[Adam Williams]

Staff should be isolating the door before they deploy the wheelchair ramps on these trains, exactly the same as all other 8XX varieties.

Hopefully this will improve, I guess the question that might explain this is: "How many other 8XX sets would staff at New Street likely have seen before today?"

 

[danbarjon]

Staff should be isolating the door before they deploy the wheelchair ramps on these trains, exactly the same as all other 8XX varieties.

Process is:-

T-Key to isolate door close procedure
Unlock the ramp attachment on train flip over (so station ramp can attach)

Assist passsnger on board

Refold ramp attachment and lock
T-Key to reactivate the door close procedure

If station teams to not isolate the door when they are doing a passenger assist with a ramp, then the door will attempt to close like all the other doors do after a set period of time.

Most staff I've had who have given my mum assistance don't usually isolate the door, it usually tends to be TPE trains that don't isolate the door.

 

[800301]

Staff should be isolating the door before they deploy the wheelchair ramps on these trains, exactly the same as all other 8XX varieties.

Process is:-

T-Key to isolate door close procedure
Unlock the ramp attachment on train flip over (so station ramp can attach)

Assist passsnger on board

Refold ramp attachment and lock
T-Key to reactivate the door close procedure

If station teams to not isolate the door when they are doing a passenger assist with a ramp, then the door will attempt to close like all the other doors do after a set period of time.

I assume you mean isolating the auto close function rather than isolating the actual door

 

[800001]

Most staff I've had who have given my mum assistance don't usually isolate the door, it usually tends to be TPE trains that don't isolate the door.

All staff should be doing it, otherwise door attempts to close.
Door attempting to close will shock/surprise the customer as they will not be expecting it.

Hopefully this will improve, I guess the question that might explain this is: "How many other 8XX sets would staff at New Street likely have seen before today?"

They might never of done it, may only of seen on elearning or an email brief.
It would be interesting to see what the training is that staff have received.

I assume you mean isolating the auto close function rather than isolating the actual door

I have never said isolating the actual door.

 

[Railperf]

No improvements visible today, far from it. Most 805s seem to lose time on all sections.
Most of the WCML upgrade money went on renewing the track, signalling and wires for 125mph, not much on the tilt system.
The 125mph available to 80x, when it comes in (30 miles or so?), will be significantly less than available to 390s (about 130 miles) south of Crewe.

Seemed to be a bad day for Avanti all round. Delays and lost time on many routes.

 

[Winthorpe]

I thought it was a good introduction to service? No major issues, just a few ‘snagging’ issues.

 

[Welshman]

I suspect the seat reservation system is turned-off the 805s at present until the Voyagers have gone and AWC is certain it will be an 805.
My wife journeyed back from Euston tonight on the 1901, which I assume was booked as an 805 as the website showed the seating plan for a new unit when she booked her ticket, but in the event it was a 221{with no seat reservations}

 

[Winthorpe]

I suspect the seat reservation system is turned-off the 805s at present until the Voyagers have gone and AWC is certain it will be an 805.
My wife journeyed back from Euston tonight on the 1901, which I assume was booked as an 805 as the website showed the seating plan for a new unit when she booked her ticket, but in the event it was a 221{with no seat reservations}

The 19:01 wasn’t scheduled for 805 today. The current schedule is:

I have received the following from a source within Avanti (Internal email sent to staff) and below are the service's scheduled to be operated by an 805 starting wc 2nd June 2024, all paths are stp over the coming weeks due to engineering work. Anything not listed, continues to be operated by a 221 or 390.
Obviously not all may operate each day starting tomorrow, this list below is shared in good faith!
(Where states 2x805 to or from Chester, obviously they split/attach and it’s 1x805 to/from Holyhead)

Sundays - 14 x 805 services

1A16 10:14 Chester to Euston 1x 805
1D83 10:36 Crew to Euston 2 x 805
1B38 11:15 Wolverhampton to Euston 1 x 805
1A42 12:48 Holyhead to Euston 2 x 805
1D87 13:02 Euston to Holyhead 1 x805
1A36 13:32 Chester to Euston 1 x 805
1A48 13:48 Holyhead to Euston 2 x 805
9G29 15:15 Euston to Birmingham NS 1 x 805
9G32 16:15 Euston to Birmingham NS 1 x 805
1J32 17:01 Euston Wrexham General + Holyhead 2 x 805 as far as Chester
1B55 17:21 Birmingham NS to Euston 1 x 805
1K67 17:53 Holyhead to Crewe 1 x 805
1D92 18:01 Euston to Holyhead 2 x 805 as far as Chester
1D95 19:18 Chester to Holyhead 1 x 805

Monday to Friday Services 14 x 805 services

1D80 05:30 Birmingham NS to Holyhead 2 x 805
1A14 06:48 Holyhead to Euston 2 x 805 from Chester
1A26 08:53 Holyhead to Euston 2 x 805
1A19 09:20 Chester to Euston 1 x 805
1D86 12:02 Euston to Chester 1 x 805
1A50 12:48 Holyhead to Euston 2 x 805 from Chester
9G26 14:16 Euston to Birmingham NS 2 x 805
1D89 15:02 Euston to Holyhead 2 x 805 as far as Chester
1B52 16:21 Birmingam NS to Euston 2 x 805
1D91 17:02 Euston to Holyhead 2 x 805 as far as Chester
1A68 17:32 Chester to Euston 1 x 805
9G38 18:16 Euston to Wolverhampton 2 x 805
1G00 19:48 Holyhead to Birmingham NS 1 x 805
1D94 20:02 Euston to Holyhead 1 x 805

Saturday services 18 x 805 services

1D80 05:30 Birmingam NS to Holyhead 1 x 805
1B25 07:21 Birmingham NS to Euston 1 x 805
1A26? 07:48 Holyhead to Euston 2 x 805 from Chester
9G08 08:16 Euston to Birmingam NS 1 x 805
1A34 08:48 Holyhead to Euston 1 x 805
9G11 09:16 Euston to Birmingham NS 1 x 805
1B31 09:21 Birmingham NS to Euston 1 x 805
1B34 10:21 Birmingham NS to Euston 1 x 805
1B37 11:21 Birmingham NS to Euston 1 x 805
1D86 12:02 Euston to Chester 2 x 805
1D87 13:02 Euston to Holyhead 1 x 805
1A58 14:32 Chester to Euston 2 x 805
9G32 16:16 Euston to Birmingham NS 1 x 805
1D91 17:02 Euston to Chester 2 x 805
9G38 18:16 Euston to Birminghmam NS 1 x 805
1B58 18:21 Birmingham NS to Euston 1 x 805
9G41 19:16 Euston to Wolverhampton 1 x 805
9G44 20:25 Euston to Wolverhampton 1 x 805

 

[RealTrains07]

Some of the 805s in service today also were clearly incomplete, 805001 has logos missing on the livery and 805009 hasn't got blanked out doors to the kitchen area or to first class.

Both are very minor details sure but it does hint that some 805s were rushed into service compared to others

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Today's 1D80 (0530 New St-Holyhead) doesn't appear to have left Birmingham yet*.
The ECS from Oxley (805 004/011) arrived at New St 43 late.

* left 67 late. I can see that one being spun at Bangor or earlier.

The first up 805 service (0648 Holyhead-Euston) left on time with 805 001 (will double up at Chester).
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se.../0000-2359?stp=WVSC&show=all&order=wtt&toc=VT

 

[Railperf]

Today's 1D80 (0530 New St-Holyhead) doesn't appear to have left Birmingham yet*.
The ECS from Oxley (805 004/011) arrived at New St 43 late.

* left 67 late. I can see that one being spun at Bangor or earlier.

The first up 805 service (0648 Holyhead-Euston) left on time with 805 001 (will double up at Chester).
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se.../0000-2359?stp=WVSC&show=all&order=wtt&toc=VT

The 530 Birmingham to Holyead terminating at Llandudno Jn to regain its path from Holyhead.