Class 93 Tri-mode Loco

[NSEWonderer]

Photo thanks to Jason Cross shows 93001 on the RIDC Melton test track using ERS mk3 coaches on hire on Tuesday 4th September, running at 110mph to support the introduction of the new locos. Look out for these coaches spreading their wings far and wide over the coming months. ERS is currently supporting 3 sets of testing all going on at the same time!

From Jason Cross Himself On Flickr:

This view shows 93001 on the rear of a southbound test run at Normanton Wold on the Old Dalby Test Track (RIDC Melton). 93002 was on the other end of the train doing all the work.

Only thing is the video on Linkedin being mentioned here, was on a wet day so I realise the above photo may not be the exact formation on that 110mph, 60 second run up.

 

[Richard Scott]

View attachment 166176


From Jason Cross Himself On Flickr:


Only thing is the video on Linkedin being mentioned here, was on a wet day so I realise the above photo may not be the exact formation on that 110mph, 60 second run

Be good to see them at work, eventually!

 

[norbitonflyer]

Be good to see them at work, eventually!

Anyone have any idea when and where that will be yet?

 

[31160]

Do we know yet what work these are intended to work? Apart from unit moves and some test stuff what do they do

 

[Class15]

Do we know yet what work these are intended to work? Apart from unit moves and some test stuff what do they do

That’s precisely the problem. No-one seems to know.

 

[800001]

That’s precisely the problem. No-one seems to know.

And we don’t need to know. Surely it’s commercially sensitive!

 

[Northerngirl]

And we don’t need to know. Surely it’s commercially sensitive!

I would have thought rog would be quite happy to tell people "look at our new loco you can lease pull your xxx" they don't exactly seem to be swimming in customers

 

[800001]

I would have thought rog would be quite happy to tell people "look at our new loco you can lease pull your xxx" they don't exactly seem to be swimming in customers

There’s still a long long way before they enter traffic.

Have contracts been signed?
Do the customers allow knowledge of the use of the locos etc?

Many many reasons for why nothing is public! Enthusiasts do not need to know yet!

 

[D365]

There’s still a long long way before they enter traffic.

Have contracts been signed?
Do the customers allow knowledge of the use of the locos etc?

If there was a customer already lined up, I would expect ROG to be pushing to get the 93s into service a lot quicker. How many years has it been since the initial order of 10 was placed.

 

[Spartacus]

There’s still a long long way before they enter traffic.

Have contracts been signed?
Do the customers allow knowledge of the use of the locos etc?

Many many reasons for why nothing is public! Enthusiasts do not need to know yet!

Exactly.

The nature of their business means it's very variable. A contract with one operator can switch to another, a route can get changed, weights can get changed, even timings if they involve more or less stops can make a difference. A 'minor' change in Government policy can change things enormously almost overnight. All this can mean that that services can become more or less suitable to using a particular traction quite quickly, certainly quicker than they'll be in service.

There's little point in saying "we're going to use them on X" when they might not have that service, or another might be more suitable for them by the time they're introduced.

At this stage they don't REALLY know what they can do either. The know what they're MEANT to do, but when it comes to it they might be able to do a bit more or less, which would make difference too.

And that's before we even get into 'commercial sensitivity' issues.

 

[Belfastmarty]

There’s still a long long way before they enter traffic.

Have contracts been signed?
Do the customers allow knowledge of the use of the locos etc?

Many many reasons for why nothing is public! Enthusiasts do not need to know yet!

You are correct, enthusiasts don't *need* to know, but that doesn't stop us wanting to know! Particularly with the 93s as the use case doesn't seem to be especially evident. From an outsiders perspective, the pace of commissioning seems to be very slow.

 

[43096]

There’s still a long long way before they enter traffic.

Have contracts been signed?
Do the customers allow knowledge of the use of the locos etc?

Many many reasons for why nothing is public! Enthusiasts do not need to know yet!

But it is strange how the normally “only too quick to shout about it“ ROG are silent about their use. Given that there is also a definite sense of feet being dragged with authorisation for the 93s, it’s hard to escape the conclusion that they have bought something with little for them to do.

 

[800001]

But it is strange how the normally “only too quick to shout about it“ ROG are silent about their use. Given that there is also a definite sense of feet being dragged with authorisation for the 93s, it’s hard to escape the conclusion that they have bought something with little for them to do.

The MD has been active on LinkedIn showing videos of there performance stating they have exceeded expectations.

 

[43096]

The MD has been active on LinkedIn showing videos of there performance stating they have exceeded expectations.

Well given that the MD needs to find a use for them, he’s not going to say they have underperformed, is he?!

 

[Nottingham59]

The MD has been active on LinkedIn showing videos of there performance stating they have exceeded expectations.

can you post a link, please?

 

[800001]

Well given that the MD needs to find a use for them, he’s not going to say they have underperformed, is he?!

Sorry for mentioning what he said!!!!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Sep 2024 ==

can you post a link, please?

Sorry took some time to find it, link below from ROG LinkedIn, including the video of the loco and coaches hitting 110mph in 61 seconds from standing start.

Rail Operations Group posted on LinkedIn

Rail Operations Group posted a video on LinkedIn

www.linkedin.com

 

[12LDA28C]

You are correct, enthusiasts don't *need* to know, but that doesn't stop us wanting to know! Particularly with the 93s as the use case doesn't seem to be especially evident. From an outsiders perspective, the pace of commissioning seems to be very slow.

Just maybe... ROG are testing the locos extensively to determine exactly what they can and can't do, before deciding what work they might be best suited to. That would seem to make commercial sense, surely? The entitlement of a few spotters on this forum is staggering.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Just maybe... ROG are testing the locos extensively to determine exactly what they can and can't do, before deciding what work they might be best suited to. That would seem to make commercial sense, surely? The entitlement of a few spotters on this forum is staggering.

It is always the way - people hungry for information fed by conjecture and rumours that fill the gap left by lack of concrete information. I have even seen it happen at work a few times. Does not bother me too much except that it risks burying the facts that do exist.

 

[craigybagel]

Just maybe... ROG are testing the locos extensively to determine exactly what they can and can't do, before deciding what work they might be best suited to. That would seem to make commercial sense, surely? The entitlement of a few spotters on this forum is staggering.

Whilst not denying there are probably lots of valid reasons why ROG would keep quiet on what solid plans they have for these locos - surely they wouldn't throw all of this money at Stadler without knowing in advance what the end product should actually be capable of? That sounds more like commercial suicide to me!

 

[themiller]

It’s called commissioning. You give the supplier a specification then you carry out tests to ensure that the specification has been met. Some suppliers exceed the specification so commissioning probes the capabilities of the first-off.

 

[12LDA28C]

Whilst not denying there are probably lots of valid reasons why ROG would keep quiet on what solid plans they have for these locos - surely they wouldn't throw all of this money at Stadler without knowing in advance what the end product should actually be capable of? That sounds more like commercial suicide to me!

Specified performance characteristics on paper and real-world performance are often two completely different things...

 

[RKynaston]

Rail Operations Group have posted a video on LinkedIn showing the 93 on the Old Dalby test track reaching 110mph in 60seconds. Presuming it was with the mk3s and another loco on rear.

Yes, Eastern Rail Services Mk3s with the other 93 on the other end.

 

[800001]

Since the tests on the Old Dalby line, and the locos returned to Worksop, it has gone very quiet.

I was sure I had read in magazines that all 10 of the locos should of been in uk now.

Does anyone know what is happening with the locos? Next steps etc? TIA

 

[The_Train]

Since the tests on the Old Dalby line, and the locos returned to Worksop, it has gone very quiet.

I was sure I had read in magazines that all 10 of the locos should of been in uk now.

Does anyone know what is happening with the locos? Next steps etc? TIA

I think the manufacturer would have wanted them off their site quite a while ago considering how long the full set have been built. It's a very, laboured and drawn out process is this. In terms of what next, there has only ever been speculation about what work these locos will actually do. Nothing even close to being a firm outcome has leaked out so either ROG are keeping things in house very well, or they have no interest in them

 

[31160]

Somethings not going to plan that at least is clear, its just what ,thats the mystery here

 

[The_Train]

Somethings not going to plan that at least is clear, its just what ,thats the mystery here

If someone put me on the spot and told me I had to come up with what the issue is, I'd have to go with it being a simple case of them not having anyone wanting to lease them as they'd hoped. I struggle to see any FOCs who would want them for the work they do, except ROG who seem hellbent on leasing these out and continuing to lease the 37s from Europhoenix (which seems crazy in itself)

 

[Bertie the bus]

I was sure I had read in magazines that all 10 of the locos should of been in uk now.

Initially they said they would all be in the country by the end of last year, then after a long period of silence said they would all be delivered by the end of this September.

 

[The_Train]

Initially they said they would all be in the country by the end of last year, then after a long period of silence said they would all be delivered by the end of this September.

We must be into the realms of storage costs being added to the invoice as well. Potentially a case that ROG don't even have a location to store the locos in the UK, let alone having someone to use them. All seems like a bit of a mess to me, unfortunately!

 

[Nottingham59]

The original plan was to paid the 93s with a new generation of intermodal flats able to run on mainlines at 100mph. But those never appeared. Can't say I'm surprised - I don't see how they'd pass a safety case running intermodals past open platforms at that speed on the WCML. The buffeting from the slipstream is pretty fierce even at 75mph, or whatever the current limit is.

 

[Wyrleybart]

The original plan was to paid the 93s with a new generation of intermodal flats able to run on mainlines at 100mph. But those never appeared. Can't say I'm surprised - I don't see how they'd pass a safety case running intermodals past open platforms at that speed on the WCML. The buffeting from the slipstream is pretty fierce even at 75mph, or whatever the current limit is.

That would be an element, but the sheer cost or additional maintenance to 100mph capable wagons compared to the current 75mph fleet has to be a factor, and I cannot see any customers shelling out considerably more for a bit of extra speed which would not benefit them, as I assume the intermodal boxes have spent weeks on ships up until the that point, so an extra two hours on a freight train is neither here nor there to the shippers.

I was under the impression that ROG / Orion stated the 93s would replace the Europhoenix 37s initially. It appears 93s are capable of operating between Worksop and Sheffield so presumably all they needs is clearance to operate over much of the UK rail network, then the 37s are handed back to Europhoenix, or go for scrap.

Or maybe not !!! I am sure Harry can still make a bob or two out of storing the 93s at Worksop