Evening Standard Story: More Dangerous DOO Chaos

[AlexS]

I suppose the question is, is it really unreasonable to expect people to take this action after so long? Having had the horror stories of people stuck on trains overnight etc, why shouldn't people be given the chance to leave and make their own way out if there are no trains able to move anyway. Insisting they sit in a hermetically sealed box with no power/food/water until the problem has been solved at whatever point that happens seems a fairly tall order to me - it may not be 'safe' for them to be wandering about but it's going to happen anyway - and it's probably no worse than what happened on that Eurostar that got stuck with people putting tables through windows and things to get air.

 

[The Crab]

Can anyone explain, in a general way, why basic compatibility in terms of buffing and brake control was not specified in new stock?

I must say that I can never get used to modern couplings. I still look at modern trains and think "If it hasn't got buffers, it's a bus". But that's just showing my age.

 

[DarloRich]

I suppose the question is, is it really unreasonable to expect people to take this action after so long? Having had the horror stories of people stuck on trains overnight etc, why shouldn't people be given the chance to leave and make their own way out if there are no trains able to move anyway. Insisting they sit in a hermetically sealed box with no power/food/water until the problem has been solved at whatever point that happens seems a fairly tall order to me - it may not be 'safe' for them to be wandering about but it's going to happen anyway - and it's probably no worse than what happened on that Eurostar that got stuck with people putting tables through windows and things to get air.

YES IT IS UNREASONABLE - WHY?

Because you are in MORE danger getting out of the train. Idiotic Cockney commuting supermen who think they rule the world from thier middle management/higher drone level might not understand this but it is true.

How long till one of these fools gets out of a train, wanders about and gets killed either by a train on the opposite road OR by touching a power source.

Yes, it is unpleasent on a hot, stuffy, crowded train but it is more unpleasent to see the aftermath of an accident. That could really spoil your day.

Sorry to seem harsh or a touch rude but it makes my blood boil.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I think in the case of FCC, the 377s are to go elsewhere after new stock arrives for the new 'Thameslink' network (to Southern?), but are also needed to couple with Southern's 377s that FCC were/are also using.

 

[Fincra5]

Well what it shows is how flawed FCCs emergency plans are (as many of you have said). In any case the TIS should not have been activated with passengers onboard. However if this very unusual decision was made the doors should have been locked manually out of use (closed).

 

[Surreytraveller]

The reason people decamp from trains in these situations is because the travelling public are fed up with how the train companies deal with them in these situations, and would rather risk death and injury than wait for ever for the railway to sort it out. The 377's are very badly designed commuter trains in that the only person who can open the windows in an emergency is the driver, who in an emergency on a packed train cannot walk through the train to open them because a) the train is packed, and b) is busy dealing with the problem. Perhaps the locks on these windows should automatically release if there is a power failure or something?

 

[OxtedL]

The 377's are very badly designed commuter trains in that the only person who can open the windows in an emergency is the driver, who in an emergency on a packed train cannot walk through the train to open them because a) the train is packed, and b) is busy dealing with the problem. Perhaps the locks on these windows should automatically release if there is a power failure or something?

That would be nice, and is probably a good idea.

However, it would be difficult to operate it like that - I have been on more than one 377 (and a 171) that has had to reboot, and on these occasions, power may be lost. You really don't want the driver to have to walk up the train closing all the windows unless absolutely necessary...

And yes, I can see the blindingly obvious solution to the point I just raised. But you can bet that TOCs might not be that realistic. Windows being closed is more important than trains reaching their destination.

In my area, 377s are not DOO, so we're fine...

 

[chuffchuff]

Guessing 377's are like 375's, you won't get power with the doors
open and the emergency brakes won't apply until you get to 6 mph
If the TIS is operated it allows power to be taken and overides the
emergency brake application

 

[Metroland]

I once went to a meeting with the police on railway incidents, and was quite disgusted with the attitude that 'We have a job to do, and will take as long as we need to'.

The problem with that is with a busy commuter railway, which may be carrying 20-80,000 people an hour, is you have huge crowd control problems. Very angry passengers, often taking it out on staff who have little or no control over the situation themselves and also want to get home.

It would take an impossible super-human effort to deal with each of those passengers problems in detail, be able to communicate every single development very frequently.

Certainly when the police get involved, say because of a suicide, even railway staff do not know how long a situation is going to persist. Therefore it is impossible to give accurate information or plan for every eventuality. The same applies to other forms of transport, remember people being trapped overnight on the M5 and M11, or the volcano ash crisis?

It is human nature to want to know what is going on and if trapped eventually get out, but all it succeeds in doing abusing staff or getting out onto the track is creating another series of problems, which need more resources to solve and further changes of plan, creating more confusion and so on.

 

[NightatLaira]

YES IT IS UNREASONABLE - WHY?

Because you are in MORE danger getting out of the train. Idiotic Cockney commuting supermen who think they rule the world from thier middle management/higher drone level might not understand this but it is true.

How long till one of these fools gets out of a train, wanders about and gets killed either by a train on the opposite road OR by touching a power source.

Yes, it is unpleasent on a hot, stuffy, crowded train but it is more unpleasent to see the aftermath of an accident. That could really spoil your day.

Sorry to seem harsh or a touch rude but it makes my blood boil.

I'm sure being stuck on an overheating train in a tunnel with (possibly) no announcements makes their blood boil as well.

Look we're going over the same ground here... No matter how 'irrational', 'stupid', or 'dangerous' you think the actions of these passengers - you can't take away human psychology from a situation like this. Rightly or wrongly, people will act of their own accord - and nothing you're gonna say is going to make any difference. You're expecting people to behave in a clockwork orange style state of sticking rigidly to the rules and never daring to challenge authority.

Perhaps O L Leigh's comments about a 'trying to keep the passengers on side' would be the best course of action, but even as he has said, after a while, no matter how many announcements you make, they will ultimately take things into their own hands.

And as for your persistent pernicious slurs on southerners, think about how you'd react if a southerner returned a bogus stereotype about northerners your direction. Crikey! You don't think they have poor people in London?? I bet you half the people on that train were being paid half what that driver was on. Perhaps you should pay a visit to the big smoke and visit some of the stops on the FCC route... go to Elephant and Castle or Loughbrough Junction - London isn't all red braces and gold cufflinks you know.

I will look forward to the RAIB report, and I bet it shows a bit more compassion to the plight of the passengers than some of the rail apologists on here do. I just hope there are some decent recommendations that come out of it and are put into place to prevent things like this happening in the future. As O L Leigh said - this kind of thing is every driver's worst nightmare.

Some thoughts:

1. Battery back up PA system
2. Emergency (battery fed) fan assisted ventilation in case of failed aircon
3. Emergency drinking water supply in each carriage (penalty for misuse)
4. Comprehensive Emergency Action plan specifically tailored for this kind of situation with in-built pre-emption of panic psychology

 

[swt_passenger]

The 377's are very badly designed commuter trains in that the only person who can open the windows in an emergency is the driver, who in an emergency on a packed train cannot walk through the train to open them because a) the train is packed, and b) is busy dealing with the problem. Perhaps the locks on these windows should automatically release if there is a power failure or something?

The 377s might be designed that way but at least they have emergency windows that can be opened. There aren't any in Desiros...

 

[talltim]

FFS - Yes that’s right none of us care about the passengers!

Taking your two obvious, simple, easy examples:

Say the wires are down, How do you shunt the unit to the siding?

You find a handy diesel. Oh they killed off most of the freight and the loco hauled passenger trains.

How do you know the unit will fit in the nearest siding?

Fair enough

Who owns it?

Does it matter?

is it suitable for a full length passenger train?

Fair enough

Are there access rights?

Not sure what you mean

What will the cost be?

Does it matter? Doing it quickly is surely going to cost less than doing it slowly.

A few sensible suggestions
Standard couplings and contol systems.
Software that can cope with 16 coach trains (or that doesn't need to know how many coaches there are)
Clear overhanging trees on third rail lines, remember that trains with pans may use them too.
Bidirectional signalling.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well, yes to be honest! It is more something to do with common sense which more and more people leave home without these days. If passengers who may look out the window of the train they are trapped on to see other trains bombing along taking power from a 3rd rail (sparks maybe??) and think it is a good idea to get off where they are and wander along the line, well herd mentality or whatever more translates to plain stupidity. Probably the same people who would driver along the middle lane of a motorway as they think it is safer and are too scared to go to the inside lane where they should return after any overtaking is complete...

Yeah, but its overhead where it happened

 

[Metroland]

Of course some of these suggestions are in place, such as emergency plans, in some areas bi-di signalling, battery back ups etc.

The ruling factor is always cost to cover a small number of eventualities.

It's really like the safety debate, how safe is safe and how much money do you put into it, at least before you make it so expensive you entirely wipe out any safety benefits? And could that money be better spent elsewhere?

It's very easy to say everything should be 100% safe, there should always be resources on hand to deal with all problems (like fleets of rail replacement buses waiting, or huge numbers of staff covering passengers every need), most reasonable people know that's not reality. These are very difficult dilemmas and too simplistic to say X should happen, or if I was a passenger on board that train I would do X.

I think there will always be some passengers that will attempt to get out after a certain amount of time, whatever you put in place, and however many staff you put on board. That's just the way some people are. In fact if you conducted an experiment, and just left people inside something indefinitely, very few people will just sit there. As some stage most people's patience will run out, and all reason is gone.

I think DOO is fairly irrelevant, in fact on DOO trains if there is a second member of staff he/she has more time to deal with passengers, rather than worrying about rule book issues like train protection.

 

[talltim]

YES IT IS UNREASONABLE - WHY?

Because you are in MORE danger getting out of the train. Idiotic Cockney commuting supermen .

I would have said that most commuters would not be Cockneys as they would be commuting to their homes outside London
:roll:

 

[DarloRich]

You're expecting people to behave in a clockwork orange style state of sticking rigidly to the rules and never daring to challenge authority.

I expect people to follow the rules when they are there to keep them safe. There are lots of times that challenging authority is a very good thing. Not when there is an imminent risk of death because of your own actions


Perhaps O L Leigh's comments about a 'trying to keep the passengers on side' would be the best course of action, but even as he has said, after a while, no matter how many announcements you make, they will ultimately take things into their own hands.

Agreed - communication is the key. However expectations of passengers need to be realistic. It REALLY often is a how long is a piece of string job

And as for your persistent pernicious slurs on southerners, think about how you'd react if a southerner returned a bogus stereotype about northerners your direction. Crikey! You don't think they have poor people in London?? I bet you half the people on that train were being paid half what that driver was on. Perhaps you should pay a visit to the big smoke and visit some of the stops on the FCC route... go to Elephant and Castle or Loughbrough Junction - London isn't all red braces and gold cufflinks you know.

I am well aware what London is like living as I do in the south east. I am off to London tomorrow actually. In fact I think many people are poorer down here because of the cost of living being higher. I do know the people have a different, in my opinion, worse attitude than those in other areas of the country. Frankly I don’t care what you say about being Northern - I know I am better than anyone down here - but I cant get a decent pigeon loft mind, and my whippet doesn’t like the food and my cloth cap needs mending and i call people love, i say gan canny, I talk to folk on the tube – I also think you might have misunderstood the definition of cockney – that is anyone south of Doncaster!

I will look forward to the RAIB report, and I bet it shows a bit more compassion to the plight of the passengers than some of the rail apologists on here do. I just hope there are some decent recommendations that come out of it and are put into place to prevent things like this happening in the future. As O L Leigh said - this kind of thing is every driver's worst nightmare.

Of course working for the railways means that I hate passengers and don’t give a stuff about what happens to them. Bo**ocks. It just takes time to sort things out. Try post #61

Some thoughts:

1. Battery back up PA system
2. Emergency (battery fed) fan assisted ventilation in case of failed aircon
3. Emergency drinking water supply in each carriage (penalty for misuse)
4. Comprehensive Emergency Action plan specifically tailored for this kind of situation with in-built pre-emption of panic psychology

[/QUOTE]

agreed but it all costs money and takes time . The TOC wont want to pay for it so it means you and I as commuters will have to pay more. There emergency plan SHOULD already cover this. The problem is implementation

 

[Surreytraveller]

I have been on more than one 377 (and a 171) that has had to reboot, and on these occasions, power may be lost. You really don't want the driver to have to walk up the train closing all the windows unless absolutely necessary...

Just run the thing with the windows open if its DOO, otherwise the guard can walk through and shut them. But 377s when they reboot are a nuisance - the doors all shut, even if passengers are boarding or alighting, with no hussle alarm either! If it needs to reboot, then the doors should surely remain in the same state they were in before the reboot began? The 377s are just dangerous, and hopefully the RAIB will come to realise that.

 

[Hydro]

Should there be an overhaul of the emergency plans? If trains are at a standstill by the two hour mark for whatever reason, start thinking about moving trains with handsignalmen or any other means as close to the nearest station or egress point and get people off. One thing the railway is rife with is the utter inability to make a decision, because of the blame culture and tit for tat arguing twixt the many organisations. There really needs to be someone, or some department, who can look at the situation and say "RIGHT. We are going to do THIS, NOW. Get me Strike Command!". Maybe not the last part, mind.

The next question is "Does today's railway have the resources for a robust emergency plan?". There are no spare locomotives for thunderbird duties. I seriously doubt the infrastructure staffing levels can allow a squadron deployment of handsignalmen, pilotmen and MOM's to an area affected by signalling failure. Trains are largely incompatible outside of individual classes for emergency movements of failures. Even emergency couplers are usually "For fitters use only", which means a man in a van travelling from who knows where to God knows where during any kind of traffic to fit this piece of equipment, which will then lead to a 5mph crawl to the nearest out of the way place. More delays, more time.

Gone are the days of buckeye/screw couplings, a main res pipe and a brake pipe on just about any vehicle. For a failure, get nearly anything local (EMU, DMU, loco, anything) and as long as you've got the brake, drag on.

NR are cutting back on staff. MOM's have been slashed, and a smaller number cover a larger local area. Even PWay are losing staff.

With the scant resources and the upsurge in cable theft leading to more and more delays, and recent high profile traction failures leaving people stranded on stock with no power, maybe the TOC's should seriously start looking at their routes, stock and locations and thinking about evacuation plans.

 

[Surreytraveller]

These situations will keep on happeneing more and more frequently (St Pancras couple of weeks ago, South Croydon 4th June, South West Trains two days in a row 8th & 9th June) due to the public becoming fed up with the way the railway treats them. If the railway doesn't do anything to deal with these situations, then the passengers will. Even the BTP couldn't manage to take names of the escapees at Woking - this shows how determined the public will be in these situations.

A driver will know relatively soon (10/20 mins) into a situation whether this is going to be a quick fix or a protracted affair, and if the latter they need to get the passengers detrained.

 

[OxtedL]

Just run the thing with the windows open if its DOO, otherwise the guard can walk through and shut them. But 377s when they reboot are a nuisance - the doors all shut, even if passengers are boarding or alighting, with no hussle alarm either! If it needs to reboot, then the doors should surely remain in the same state they were in before the reboot began? The 377s are just dangerous, and hopefully the RAIB will come to realise that.

I did kind of try to imply I realised that you would probably just run with windows open. But yes.

I think the only drawbacks to the Electrostar family are related to reboots. Particularly the obscene length of time it takes for a train to switch from AC to DC power supply or vice versa. Other than that, you have to love 'em, they're a good little bunch of EMUs.

 

[DarloRich]

You find a handy diesel. Oh they killed off most of the freight and the loco hauled passenger trains.

A lot of the TOCs dont have rescue locos. It isnt like the old days where you could fire up any old nb 31/37/47 (:cry::cry and whack it on the front of a failure. Even if you have got one to hand you have to get it to site. Hard with all running lines bloked and the power lines down. Even harder with only an up and down line to run on!


Does it matter? Yes becuase company A might not have an agreement with company B to use thier siding. Company A might not want to pay company B to use thier facility! Madness i know!


Not sure what you mean Company A might not have the right of access across comany B land to reach the siding or take people away from the train
Does it matter? Doing it quickly is surely going to cost less than doing it slowly. You might so - i couldnt possibly comment!

It is a symptom of the current railway world that these questions have to be asked at all!

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Part of the problem with this and every other incident nowadays is the inordinate amount of time it takes the industry to actually solve these problems when they arise. It doesn't matter what the problem is, it is the issue of time.

I was working a train once when we failed just outside Leeds station, about 20 yards off the end of the platform. As it happens we were still opposite some platforms, but on a through road so not actually adjacent to them. It took over 2 hours to get us back into the platform. By this time myself and the driver were being threatened with physical violence and despite all our best endeavours if we had not moved when we did the passengers were informing us that they would break the doors open. It was only a 2 car train, which was reasonably busy, but had no standing passengers. After 2 hours sat so close to the station platform I was equally as frustrated as the passengers. But why so long a delay? Firstly it took ages for the Control Centre to accept that it was a failure. Myself and the driver knew it was a failure but Control wanted is to keep trying one last thing in case it sorted itself out. Then, it took them the best part of an hour to get a unit to shove us back into the platform, despite the station being full of units perfectly capable of the task. I wanted to evacuate passengers out of the rear cab door and walk the short distance up onto the platform, but Control would not authorise it and I couldn't do it without a line blockage.

This shows that even if you have a Guard and a Driver on a 2 coach train you cannot help basic human instinct and frustration. Apart from physically wrestling them to the ground I don't think I would have been able to stop them breaking out if they so desired. Myself and the driver were limited to what we could do and say to people by what Control centre, many miles away in an office, were deciding was going to happen.

 

[MadCommuter]

I dread being caught up in a similar situation as I am not good on packed trains at the best of times. I'd like to think I would keep calm, but in reality, would I? I suppose its hard to know until it happens how I would react.

 

[OuterDistant]

Gone are the days of buckeye/screw couplings, a main res pipe and a brake pipe on just about any vehicle. For a failure, get nearly anything local (EMU, DMU, loco, anything) and as long as you've got the brake, drag on.

I was just thinking that as well. It seems that for everything we've gained in reliability over the past few years, we've lost in flexibility, and it all comes crashing down when there's a failure.

Going back through my 80s books, magazines etc. and you don't have to look too hard to find photos of failed DMUs and EMUs being loco hauled, or even better, propelled by a following train! What happens nowadays? The stock is all incompatible so passengers get stranded and, to make matters worse, often without breathable air!

 

[Hydro]

But why so long a delay? Firstly it took ages for the Control Centre to accept that it was a failure. Myself and the driver knew it was a failure but Control wanted is to keep trying one last thing in case it sorted itself out. Then, it took them the best part of an hour to get a unit to shove us back into the platform, despite the station being full of units perfectly capable of the task. I wanted to evacuate passengers out of the rear cab door and walk the short distance up onto the platform, but Control would not authorise it and I couldn't do it without a line blockage.

What an utter farce. I hate having to hang on whilst decisions are being made hundreds of miles away when the solution is staring you in the face. I've been involved in a failure in deepest Essex that entailed a crawl to the nearest station not exceeding 10mph (brake problems) and a wait for three hours (!) whilst control hammered out a plan that culminated in sending a man in a van from West London (!) to come and examine! NFF, but just in case don't use the brake from that loco, which meant change ends and go home! That idea was first mooted by the train crew in the initial phone call!

Passenger trains were queued up behind us for several signal sections, once we were out of the way after the epic crawl at least 6 went by us in the space of about 15 minutes!

 

[sonorguy]

At Hillsborough, thousands of fans were being pushed into an already full area. People were suffocating due to the sheer amount of people. Others were trampled and killed. Hundreds more would have died if people hadn't climbed out the area onto the pitch. That is not comparable to a failed train. We have no proof that no information was given (which is incredibly unlikely). Whether or not it seemed like the only plan (which it isn't) there was no reason to alight from the train, and those who do are putting themselves and others in danger. You're displaying a very poor grasp of railway safety.

The lack of rail safety knowledge for Joe Public is exactly the point and one of the problems with discussing events like this on a forum inhabited by people who know of what they speak. YOU may very well understand about railway safety to a high degree. The general travelling public DON'T and it's the operators' and Network Rail's responsibility to look after them and ensure their safety. That's why they are the experts.

I'm not talking about whether it was the only plan, I'm talking about whether it seemed to be the only plan available to some passengers. The exact same thing happened yesterday and it's clear from the news reports that some people did feel that this was their only option. If people feel threatened or unsafe then all bets are off in terms of what they are likely to do (particularly if they do not know what has happened), the psychology of this is something that I am professionally involved in. People don't think 'this might be dangerous so I won't do it', they see a way out of an intolerable situation (for them as they perceive it) and they take it. It's also clear that no information was being fed to the driver either yesterday, so it's not an unreasonable guess that this was also the case in the incident referred to by the OP. Psychologically speaking if information had been present in sufficient quantity then people would be less likely to get out of the train as staying there wouldn't be seen as 'risky'.

In terms of Hillsborough it appears that one of the passengers who left the train yesterday was a diabetic who required insulin. It could be said that he had a very legitimate fear that his life may be at risk and therefore wanting to leave especially as he didn't know what was happening.

 

[Metroland]

One of my chief criticisms of the signalling course (unless something has radically changed) is that it's far too rules based. There's 10 weeks or so of rules training but little hands on IE role playing, simulators etc unless you get back to location and there is an off chance something will crop up so you can get some experience before passing competent.

You would think signallers are trained how to deal with with emergencies (say train running away, SPADs), train failures, communication and so on other than a bit of theory. More hands on, rather like trainee pilots in a flight simulator. You'd be dead wrong. Training consists are little more than 'learning the rule book' and you are expected to pick up experience 'on the job', to a degree, until you are passed 'good enough'. There is no in-depth 'crisis management' coupled with simulators, no 'importance of communication and organisation course', very little if anything on team working, which could be months in itself.

Considering when incidents happen, these issues seem to crop up time and time again, I would suggest training needs to be radically reviewed. I also find train crew knowledge on railway signalling and operation similarly appalling, and something does need to change.

 

[Hydro]

One of my chief criticisms of the signalling course (unless something has radically changed) is that it's far too rules based. There's 10 weeks or so of rules training but little hands on IE role playing, simulators etc unless you get back to location and there is an off chance something will crop up so you can get some experience before passing competent.

You would think signallers are trained how to deal with with emergencies (say train running away, SPADs), train failures, communication and so on. Rather like trainee pilots in a flight simulator. You'd be dead wrong. Training consists are little more than rule book theory, and you are expected to pick up experience 'on the job'. There is no in-depth 'crisis management' coupled with simulators, no 'importance of communication and organisation course', very little if anything on team working, which could be months in itself.

Considering when incidents happen, these issues seem to crop up time and time again, I would suggest training needs to be radically reviewed.

I'd even go as far to say that this is a general problem of the railways as a whole. I'd even have a stab at saying that this is a culture problem of a lot of work environments, not just the railway, but I don't have the experience to argue much for that.

Everything nowadays has a rule. Well, it's supposed to. Training consists of learning these texts by rote and applying them to a perfect world. There's no consideration given to situations that do not have a rule or a procedure and what to do in said situations. Only yesterday I read on the BBC that one of the senior bods in the Greater Manchester Police said that rules and procedures cannot be applied rigidly to all situations, and that officers should make greater use of common sense. Maybe the railway could seize this revelation. As it stands at the moment, the Rules are what you play by. You can do no wrong if you play by the Rules, and in the corporate business that is the modern railway, you put yourself at risk of scapegoating or sacking if you deviate. Sad but seemingly true.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I did kind of try to imply I realised that you would probably just run with windows open. But yes.

Sorry. I realise that. But like you said, someone might write a rule somewhere claiming that an open window might cause a draught to fan a fire, or a stray acorn might come through the window and strike a passenger on the head or something.

 

[DarloRich]

Sonor Guy -

I agree with you but often there is NO information! People dont understand that. Or more likely dont WANT to understand. They expect to be told a detailed answer to thier reasonable questions, like when will i get to X.

Staff have to understand this and should be trained in "people/sitiation management" whilst some passengers have to have thier expectations managed.

You cant always give the passenger the information they want. They have to accept that the gaurd isnt trying to ruin thier life and the guard has to try and pass on what he knows and keep trying to get the information the passengers want and inform them that he is trying. Even that wont be enougth for some, but at least you try.

Hydro -

The problem is that saftey has to be seen to be the number one priority for NR. Consider the breaches of saftey in the past and the consequences they have had. It is a case of once bitten twice shy. I actually agree with you but it wont change, even before you consider the compensation culture in the UK at present.

 

[Metroland]

I'd even go as far to say that this is a general problem of the railways as a whole. I'd even have a stab at saying that this is a culture problem of a lot of work environments, not just the railway, but I don't have the experience to argue much for that.

Everything nowadays has a rule. Well, it's supposed to. Training consists of learning these texts by rote and applying them to a perfect world. There's no consideration given to situations that do not have a rule or a procedure and what to do in said situations. Only yesterday I read on the BBC that one of the senior bods in the Greater Manchester Police said that rules and procedures cannot be applied rigidly to all situations, and that officers should make greater use of common sense. Maybe the railway could seize this revelation. As it stands at the moment, the Rules are what you play by. You can do no wrong if you play by the Rules, and in the corporate business that is the modern railway, you put yourself at risk of scapegoating or sacking if you deviate. Sad but seemingly true.

Indeed, and if people are trained to rules, and their professional judgement is not valued, then there is no common sense. The railway disciplinary procedure also doesn't help, so you get a set of jobs-worth automatons, the sort of thing a fast food restaurant wants.

The training, for the most part, on how to deal with the above consists of a 40 pages pdf.

http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Rule_Boo...nts and Extreme Weather/GERT8000-M1 Iss 1.pdf

The plight of the passengers and train crew never comes into it, other than minimise delay. So if communication and team work is bad, I would suggest that is down to training. It's fine words 'lessons will be learned', but it needs to go into some formal training and rigorous selection, rather than 'hoping for the best' on the day.