December 2025 East Coast Timetable

[47421]

Mod Note: Posts #1 - #25 originally in this thread.

Mod Note: Discussion of the actual timetable can be found from this later post in the thread here.

Article in today's Sunday Times says new TT will go ahead, announcement expected 'this month'.

'Now Network Rail, the train operators and the Department for Transport have finally reached an agreement, however, a new timetable, and the new Azuma trains, operating at their full capability, will be in place by December 2025.'

London to Edinburgh train will be faster than flying

Line upgrades and quicker vehicles will shave 20 minutes off the journey, fuelling fierce competition for passengers

www.thetimes.com

 

[800001]

Article in today's Sunday Times says new TT will go ahead, announcement expected 'this month'.

'Now Network Rail, the train operators and the Department for Transport have finally reached an agreement, however, a new timetable, and the new Azuma trains, operating at their full capability, will be in place by December 2025.'

London to Edinburgh train will be faster than flying

Line upgrades and quicker vehicles will shave 20 minutes off the journey, fuelling fierce competition for passengers

www.thetimes.com

Can anyone post the content of article as behind a paywall?

 

[castlefieldlad]

‘Travelling from London to Edinburgh could be faster by rail than air for the first time next year, as 20 minutes is shaved off the train journey.

The breakthrough, which will bring the time down to just over four hours and is due to be announced this month by the transport secretary, is likely to unleash fierce competition as LNER and Lumo seek to coax passengers from airlines including British Airways, easyJet and Ryanair.

While the train between the two capitals used to take an average of four hours and 32 minutes, it will now take four hours and seven minutes.’



Not entirely clear from the article, but seems like it will not be from the timetable change next month.

 

[HST43257]

Not entirely clear from the article, but seems like it will not be from the timetable change next month.

I don’t think it ever suggests that

The timetable for next month is already in the system and tickets are bookable

 

[weeklycommuter]

‘Travelling from London to Edinburgh could be faster by rail than air for the first time next year, as 20 minutes is shaved off the train journey.
The breakthrough, which will bring the time down to just over four hours and is due to be announced this month by the transport secretary, is likely to unleash fierce competition as LNER and Lumo seek to coax passengers from airlines including British Airways, easyJet and Ryanair.
While the train between the two capitals used to take an average of four hours and 32 minutes, it will now take four hours and seven minutes.’
Not entirely clear from the article, but seems like it will not be from the timetable change next month.

I don’t think it ever suggests that
The timetable for next month is already in the system and tickets are bookable

Also reported in The Scotsman that it will be announced this month (December 2024) that the new East Coast Mainline timetable will be introduced in December 2025.

Edinburgh-London 4 hour rail journeys 'to be confirmed within weeks'

Faster trips to finally start in December 2025

www.scotsman.com

Long-delayed plans to cut many rail journeys between Edinburgh and London to around four hours are to be finally confirmed within the next two weeks.
The faster LNER trips, which were planned for 2019 to make rail as quick as air, are now due to be introduced in December 2025 - a year later than previously expected.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Has Hull Trains open access bid for London to Sheffield going ahead then? By the read of the article it is.

Northern Sheffield to Leeds fast service also approved. Be interesting to see if Lumo also gets its request

 

[A S Leib]

(It might have been said but there's 18 pages to look through) are the calling patterns detailed in post 24 still the one planned for next December?

• Fast LNER Edinburgh services losing Darlington and some York calls
• Little change to slow LNER Edinburgh services
• Stevenage and Grantham getting hourly Newcastle services
• Lincoln services alternating with Harrogate instead of York and not calling at Peterborough
• An hourly London – Leeds running fast from Peterborough to Wakefield and to Bradford bihourly
• The other hourly London – Leeds service running fast south of Doncaster

Or, in other words, York / Newcastle getting 3 tph LNER instead of 2½ / 2 and Leeds going from 2 to 2½. The Glasgow, Stirling and Sunderland extentions definitely aren't happening, not sure about Huddersfield and I think 1tp2h Middlesbrough's dependent on platform 3 being built.

LNER tph now

	KGX	SVG	PBO	GRA	NNG
DON	3.5	1.5	2.5	1.5	1.5
LDS	2	1	1	1	0
YRK	2.5	0.5	~2	0.5	1.5
NCL	2	0	1	0	1
EDB	2	0	1	0	1

LNER tph – 2021 consultation

	KGX	SVG	PBO	GRA	NNG
DON	3.5 (=)	1.5 (=)	1 (-1.5)	1.5 (=)	1.5 (=)
LDS	2.5 (+0.5)	0.5 (-0.5)	1 (=)	0.5 (-0.5)	0.5 (+0.5)
YRK	3 (+0.5)	1 (+0.5)	1.5 (=)	1 (+0.5)	1 (-0.5)
NCL	3 (+1)	1 (+1)	1 (=)	1 (+1)	1 (=)
EDB	2 (=)	0 (=)	1 (=)	0 (=)	0 (-1)

Actual December 2025 timetable

	KGX	SVG	PBO	GRA	NNG
DON
LDS
YRK	3.5 (+1)	1 (+0.5)	1.5 (=)	1 (+0.5)	1 (-0.5)
NCL	3 (+1)	1 (+1)	1 (=)	1 (+1)	1 (=)
EDB	2 (=)	0 (=)	1 (=)	0 (=)	1 (=)

2022-3 passenger numbers (thousands)

	KGX	SVG	PBO	GRA	NNG
DON	384	9	23	9	7
LDS	925	45	59	30	16
YRK	704	13	46	11	25
NCL	735	13	37	4	18
EDB	994	12	40	4	19

 

[hexagon789]

(It might have been said but there's 18 pages to look through) are the calling patterns detailed in post 24 still the one planned for next December?

• Fast LNER Edinburgh services losing Darlington and some York calls
• Little change to slow LNER Edinburgh services
• Stevenage and Grantham getting hourly Newcastle services
• Lincoln services alternating with Harrogate instead of York and not calling at Peterborough
• An hourly London – Leeds running fast from Peterborough to Wakefield and to Bradford bihourly
• The other hourly London – Leeds service running fast south of Doncaster

Or, in other words, York / Newcastle getting 3 tph LNER instead of 2½ / 2 and Leeds going from 2 to 2½. The Glasgow, Stirling and Sunderland extentions definitely aren't happening, not sure about Huddersfield and I think 1tp2h Middlesbrough's dependent on platform 3 being built.

The draft timetable for December 2022 had all the Edinburgh fasts calling at York, including the current 'Flying Scotsman' up 0540 working.

 

[A S Leib]

The draft timetable for December 2022 had all the Edinburgh fasts calling at York, including the current 'Flying Scotsman' up 0540 working.

That makes sense. Presumably the Newcastle – Reading, Newcastle – Manchester Airport and Middlesbrough – King's Cross services means enough capacity for Darlington – Newcastle, Darlington – York and Teesside – London passengers would be there.

 

[dodecahedron67]

I believe it is (I may be very wrong here and others may know better)

LNER
1tph KGX - YRK - NCL - EDB

1tph KGX - PBO - DON - YRK - DAR - DHM - NCL - BWK - EDB + extensions to ABD/INV

1tph (KGX Semi-Fast) YRK - NTR - DAR - DHM - NCL

0.5tph (KGX all stops) YRK - TBY - MBR

TPE
1tph (LIV) LDS - YRK - DAR - DHM - CLS - NCL

1tph (MIA) LDS - YRK - THI - NTR (Boro/Redcar)

0.5tph (tbc, shared w XC) (Picc) LDS - YRK - NTR - DAR - DHM - NCL


XC
1tph (SW) LDS - YRK - DAR - DHM - NCL (Scotland)

0.5tph (tbc, shared w TPE) (S Coast) DON - YRK - DAR - DHM - NCL

Believe the 0.5tph TPE/XC would alternate between terminating at York and Newcastle, each TOC running every other hour to York/Newcastle

Codes
BWK Berwick upon Tweed
CLS Chester-le-Street
DAR Darlington
DHM Durham
DON Doncaster
EDB Edinburgh
KGX Kings Cross
LIV Liverpool Lime St
LDS Leeds
MIA Manchester Airport
MBR Middlesbrough
NCL Newcastle
NTR Northallerton
TBY Thornaby

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

So has freight been sacrificed so the DfT can lay claim to getting a press opportunity to say they are delivering for passengers?

You also have to wonder how deliverable this will really be and am not convinced 15m off a 4hr+ journey is really going to drive up passengers that much over potentially undermining overall reliability.

 

[800Travel]

I believe it is (I may be very wrong here and others may know better)

LNER
1tph KGX - YRK - NCL - EDB

1tph KGX - PBO - DON - YRK - DAR - DHM - NCL - BWK - EDB + extensions to ABD/INV

1tph (KGX Semi-Fast) YRK - NTR - DAR - DHM - NCL

0.5tph (KGX all stops) YRK - TBY - MBR

TPE
1tph (LIV) LDS - YRK - DAR - DHM - CLS - NCL

1tph (MIA) LDS - YRK - THI - NTR (Boro/Redcar)

0.5tph (tbc, shared w XC) (Picc) LDS - YRK - NTR - DAR - DHM - NCL


XC
1tph (SW) LDS - YRK - DAR - DHM - NCL (Scotland)

0.5tph (tbc, shared w TPE) (S Coast) DON - YRK - DAR - DHM - NCL

Believe the 0.5tph TPE/XC would alternate between terminating at York and Newcastle, each TOC running every other hour to York/Newcastle

Codes
BWK Berwick upon Tweed
CLS Chester-le-Street
DAR Darlington
DHM Durham
DON Doncaster
EDB Edinburgh
KGX Kings Cross
LIV Liverpool Lime St
LDS Leeds
MIA Manchester Airport
MBR Middlesbrough
NCL Newcastle
NTR Northallerton
TBY Thornaby

Thanks for this - really detailed breakdown.

One error that I know of - the LNER York -> Newcastle is 1tp2h rather than 1tph

Source - https://www.lner.co.uk/travel-information/travelling-later/timetables/

From 16 December 2024, LNER will be temporarily operating weekday shuttle services between Newcastle and York in both directions, calling at Durham, Darlington and Northallerton.​

Tickets for the services are expected to be on sale from 10:00 on Thursday 7 November 2024.​

FAQs​

What times will trains run? ​

Trains will run around every 2 hours in both directions (Monday through Friday). That’s 7 shuttles per weekday, per direction.

First train northbound: 08:07 from York

First train southbound: 07:43 from Newcastle

Last train northbound: 20:07 from York

Last train southbound: 18:44 from Newcastle

 

[The Planner]

So has freight been sacrificed so the DfT can lay claim to getting a press opportunity to say they are delivering for passengers?

Its still being worked on.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Thanks for this - really detailed breakdown.

One error that I know of - the LNER York -> Newcastle is 1tp2h rather than 1tph

Source - https://www.lner.co.uk/travel-information/travelling-later/timetables/

I believe this shuttle ends as the Dec25 timetable takes effect. Dodecahedron was referring to the Dec25 timetable where tere is the third Newcastle.

 

[A S Leib]

What's the calling pattern south of York to King's Cross from December 2025 supposed to be?

 

[hexagon789]

I believe it is (I may be very wrong here and others may know better)

LNER
1tph KGX - YRK - NCL - EDB

1tph KGX - PBO - DON - YRK - DAR - DHM - NCL - BWK - EDB + extensions to ABD/INV

1tph (KGX Semi-Fast) YRK - NTR - DAR - DHM - NCL

0.5tph (KGX all stops) YRK - TBY - MBR

TPE
1tph (LIV) LDS - YRK - DAR - DHM - CLS - NCL

1tph (MIA) LDS - YRK - THI - NTR (Boro/Redcar)

0.5tph (tbc, shared w XC) (Picc) LDS - YRK - NTR - DAR - DHM - NCL


XC
1tph (SW) LDS - YRK - DAR - DHM - NCL (Scotland)

0.5tph (tbc, shared w TPE) (S Coast) DON - YRK - DAR - DHM - NCL

Believe the 0.5tph TPE/XC would alternate between terminating at York and Newcastle, each TOC running every other hour to York/Newcastle

Is this derived from the previous December 2022 draft or the actual proposed December 2025 pattern. If the former, the stops in the Edinburgh semi-fasts alternated - Durham and Alnmouth one hour, Darlington and Berwick the next.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Dec 2024 ==

What's the calling pattern south of York to King's Cross from December 2025 supposed to be?

If the December 2025 is anything like the proposed December 2022, then it would be 7tp2h - I.e. three hourly and one two-hourly service:

XX:17 non-stop (ex-Edinburgh/London fast)

XX:26* Doncaster, Retford & Peterborough - *two-hourly on even hours (York/London semi-fast). Overtaken by XX:31 path.

XX:31 Grantham & Stevenage (ex-Newcastle/London semi-fast)

XX:55 Doncaster, Newark & Peterborough (ex-Edinburgh/London semi-fast)

 

[A S Leib]

If the December 2025 is anything like the proposed December 2022, then it would be 7tp2h - I.e. three hourly and one two-hourly service:

XX:17 non-stop (ex-Edinburgh/London fast)

XX:26* Doncaster, Retford & Peterborough - *two-hourly on even hours (York/London semi-fast). Overtaken by XX:31 path.

XX:31 Grantham & Stevenage (ex-Newcastle/London semi-fast)

XX:55 Doncaster, Newark & Peterborough (ex-Edinburgh/London semi-fast)

Thank you.

 

[43074]

If the December 2025 is anything like the proposed December 2022, then it would be 7tp2h - I.e. three hourly and one two-hourly service:

XX:17 non-stop (ex-Edinburgh/London fast)

XX:26* Doncaster, Retford & Peterborough - *two-hourly on even hours (York/London semi-fast). Overtaken by XX:31 path.

XX:31 Grantham & Stevenage (ex-Newcastle/London semi-fast)

XX:55 Doncaster, Newark & Peterborough (ex-Edinburgh/London semi-fast)

The December 2025 timetable is exactly the same as the December 2022 version apart from not alternating between Darlington and Durham in the Edinburgh semi-fast as they call hourly at Darlington, and hourly calls at Northallerton in the Newcastle semi-fast instead of TPE (or XC as per the December 2022 draft).

You might wonder how on earth it's taken 3 years to develop it since then with little tangible change other than shuffling a few stops around but I wouldn't like to comment...

 

[hexagon789]

The December 2025 timetable is exactly the same as the December 2022 version apart from not alternating between Darlington and Durham in the Edinburgh semi-fast as they call hourly at Darlington, and hourly calls at Northallerton in the Newcastle semi-fast instead of TPE (or XC as per the December 2022 draft).

You might wonder how on earth it's taken 3 years to develop it since then with little tangible change other than shuffling a few stops around but I wouldn't like to comment...

So the Edinburgh semi-fasts will now always call at both Darlington and Durham? Is that the difference?

Does that affect the journey time any or have things been adjusted elsewhere to compensate?

 

[43074]

So the Edinburgh semi-fasts will now always call at both Darlington and Durham? Is that the difference?

Does that affect the journey time any or have things been adjusted elsewhere to compensate?

Apologies I didn't make myself too clear there, basically the proposal to increase LNER frequencies at Durham to 3 trains every 2 hours has been dropped, and the Edinburgh semi-fast calls at Darlington every hour instead of alternating between the two.

 

[hexagon789]

Apologies I didn't make myself too clear there, basically the proposal to increase LNER frequencies at Durham to 3 trains every 2 hours has been dropped, and the Edinburgh semi-fast calls at Darlington every hour instead of alternating between the two.

So Durham is every second Edinburgh semi-fast only, but Darlington is in all of them or is Durham only in the hourly Newcastle semi-fasts?

 

[JonathanH]

Is the view that CrossCountry calling at Durham is sufficient to maintain 2tph to Edinburgh, and Durham only warrants a stopping service to London? 3tph from Durham to York, one each to London, Birmingham and Liverpool?

 

[hexagon789]

Durham only warrants a stopping service to London

Hardly 'stopping', four calls.

Which is actually less than present - 5 or 6.

 

[JonathanH]

Hardly 'stopping', four calls.

Which is actually less than present - 5 or 6.

Darlington, York, Grantham, Stevenage?

 

[hexagon789]

Darlington, York, Grantham, Stevenage?

Yes. So omitting Northallerton every second hour and Doncaster.

 

[800Travel]

I believe this shuttle ends as the Dec25 timetable takes effect. Dodecahedron was referring to the Dec25 timetable where tere is the third Newcastle.

Oops - thanks for flagging. Based on the mod thread split, I think OP may have posted in the Dec 2024 thread which is what confused me - but I may be wrong on that. And yes, believe that is correct re shuttle ending Dec25.

 

[Riverside Redz]

Really hope Middlesbrough does get the long awaited increase in its one a day LNER service. No idea what the stance is on platform 3 at the moment tho

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Guess this will also now set the Cambridge Sth opening?

 

[The Middle]

Guess this will also now set the Cambridge Sth opening?

In service January 26 last I saw

 

[A S Leib]

Grand Central wanted (more) Peterborough and Seaham calls, an extra daily York service and two extra Bradford ones; how much of that is likely to happen by next December?