British Transport Police - Rail Enthusiasts

[bluenoxid]

Where there are members of staff, there are already eyes and ears there at the station?

 

[michael769]

Where there are members of staff, there are already eyes and ears there at the station?

They cannot be everywhere, especially not at unstaffed stations?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Pity I couldn't get the high-vis drivers bag he was carrying as well, but there was no railway logo on it.

In fairness, non railway people can buy those kind of bags legitimately.

 

[Flamingo]

In fairness, non railway people can buy those kind of bags legitimately.

Yea, but his first comment when I said where had he got the stuff was "I know lots of people who work for First, they give me things".

He then said he'd bought the bag from e-bay, but if we'd had BTP to meet the train, I KNOW he wouldn't have been able to show them the transaction.

 

[Old Timer]

How exactly does the Airport Watch scheme work in practice?

Heathrow Aviation Enthusiast Scheme

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The question here is, which of these aspects is relevant to letting spotters onto platforms. Vile as it might be to consider, I see no relevance in the protection of children act etc in this application. If the main reason of the cards is to stop the terrorist bogeyman then nothing that a CRB check could find would really be relevant.

I had to post what I did as the FULL clarification in my posting shows what people wanting to hold an accredited SIA licence, which many do these days, have to go through to obtain a licence.

It is hard to believe, but still very true, that many members of the public think that all you have to do to obtain an SIA licence is just to apply for one:roll::roll:

Lanyards are NOTHING but the holder method for displaying the SIA card. It is the card itself that is the accreditation.

 

[wintonian]

Heathrow Aviation Enthusiast Scheme

Thanks for that.

The cards issued for aviation enthusiasts are rather nice, though I'm not sure whether members of the scheme should pay an admin fee, although it is quite a reasonable one.

I see there is an issue date but no expiry date on the cards, to my mind this seems to be the wrong way round after all why have an issue date, assuming membership starts from receipt of the card?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Thanks for that.

The cards issued for aviation enthusiasts are rather nice, though I'm not sure whether members of the scheme should pay an admin fee, although it is quite a reasonable one.

I see there is an issue date but no expiry date on the cards, to my mind this seems to be the wrong way round after all why have an issue date, assuming membership starts from receipt of the card?

I agree with you that the EXPIRY date should be clearly visible, as an out-of-date card will betray itself upon examination.

 

[RailwayWatch]

Thank you for all of your responses; it seems that the proposal of this scheme is striking the right chord with many rail enthusiasts and that it is seen by many of you as a positive idea.

Can I clear up a few points that have been raised so far?

Railway Watch is a British Transport Police initiative, it is still in a proposal form at this stage and I am looking at how we can bring it into action. As such, we don’t have any specific information on the BTP web pages at the moment but I am working on this.

Railway Watch is aimed at encouraging Rail Enthusiasts to report suspicious activity and incidents on the railway; it is not about preventing Enthusiasts from following their hobby or giving members more rights or access but is aimed at helping to support a safe environment on the rail network by encouraging rail enthusiasts to become part of the Rail Community.

As a scheme, it is intended that it would be administered by the British Transport Police and the idea of a membership card is so that members can be visible to the Railway and the Police. You wouldn’t have to be a member to be on the rail network and a membership ID card would not give the holder any extra privilege or access but it would show that the holder was committed to helping keep the railway as a safe environment.

The card would identify the holder and have direct crime reporting contact numbers on it as well as a membership id and would be the similar to the membership cards issued to the schemes already in place at the UK airports.

I am aware that, in the past, there have been instances where rail enthusiasts have been challenged whilst taking photographs on the rail network, it is intended that this scheme would raise awareness with both the Rail operators and the public that Rail Enthusiasts are a valid resource and that, on the whole they are engaged in a lawful pastime.

Please note, there are information pages on all of the Train Operating companies, Network Rail and British Transport Police websites with guidance for rail enthusiasts pursuing their hobby on the Rail Network.

Thank you for all your posts, I will keep you updated.

 

[MadCommuter]

I would hope that anyone on or around the network would report suspicious activity, whether a member or not. Maybe I'm living in a dream world?

 

[Minilad]

Amazing that an organisation that spends a lot of time giving hassle to members of the enthusiast community now want them to help it.
I would think 99% of enthusiasts would report something if they saw it anyway without having some silly ID card round their neck.
And thats before we get into the few who will see the card as a right to go places they are not supposed to.
Not a good thing in my opinion, just another way for the Police to get a few more names onto one of the databases they so love

 

[158_Sprinter]

I see this as a good idea.
Is it solely focused around London or would it expand?

 

[Dreadnought]

I would hope that anyone on or around the network would report suspicious activity, whether a member or not. Maybe I'm living in a dream world?

I agree with you. In fact I have reported suspicious activity in the past and would continue to do so in the future even though I do not intend to join this membership scheme.

 

[michael769]

I would hope that anyone on or around the network would report suspicious activity, whether a member or not. Maybe I'm living in a dream world?

But if you do not have a contact number to hand, by the time you find one it may be too late. One advantage of a scheme like this is that it encourages the participants to know who or what to call.

 

[ainsworth74]

The BTP's phone number is 0800 40 50 40, I have it saved in my phone so that in the incredibly unlikely event I need to call the BTP whilst out and about it's available, but to be honest it isn't hard to remember.

 

[Bonemaster]

Amazing that an organisation that spends a lot of time giving hassle to members of the enthusiast community now want them to help it.
I would think 99% of enthusiasts would report something if they saw it anyway without having some silly ID card round their neck.
And thats before we get into the few who will see the card as a right to go places they are not supposed to.
Not a good thing in my opinion, just another way for the Police to get a few more names onto one of the databases they so love

Absolutely agree my one hope would be that having such a scheme would alert some of the poorly trained and informed staff or those who promote the pointless "Signing-In" policy into changing there minds, and removing this pointless and ineffective regulation.

I just believe there maybe more benefit in a much simpler card with the phone numbers on that enthusiasts can put into there wallets, or camera badges, rather than a policy that would potentially attract those who believed it game them additional privileges, as well as have an administration cost.

 

[stockport1]

papiere bitte?

Seriously. terrorists dont scare me. but a state that insists on taking away our freedoms does. arnt you btp getting guns shortly too?

you do not have my consent to stop or search me and if the drugs sniffing dogs you use sit next to me at the station i use,dont even bother. i wll charge you for my time. and i may press charges if you touch me or kidnap me to the cells.

coppers used to be nice now they all seem to be sociopaths intent on intimidating the public. viz lime street station

 

[ukrob]

I can't really support this. One way or another, it is the enthusiasts that will pay the financial cost of the scheme.

Why don't you just make a joint website with Network Rail with all the information for how to report crime etc. Printable leaflets, tell people to save the number to their phone. Even have an app that can report the gps co-ordinates or send a photo. It is 2011. Be innovative instead of dishing out lanyards. Add value.

Just seems like a big waste of money to me in it's current form.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Even have an app that can report the gps co-ordinates or send a photo. It is 2011.

You think that'll be cheaper?!!!

 

[ukrob]

You think that'll be cheaper?!!!

Not at all. But if they are going to go ahead with the scheme at least bring it up to date.

 

[MadCommuter]

An app could be extended to any rail user. Indeed, why are the BTP so interested in enthusiasts and not commuters? Jointly, commuters spend more time on the network than enthusiasts.

 

[ukrob]

An app could be extended to any rail user. Indeed, why are the BTP so interested in enthusiasts and not commuters?

Probably because they couldn't get away with a database of commuters

Jointly, commuters spend more time on the network than enthusiasts.

Indeed - and generally at busier times of day than a spotter. Although a commuter is possibly more likely to be on 'auto pilot' and not notice things out of the ordinary?

 

[Mr Spock]

papiere bitte?

Seriously. terrorists dont scare me. but a state that insists on taking away our freedoms does. arnt you btp getting guns shortly too?

you do not have my consent to stop or search me and if the drugs sniffing dogs you use sit next to me at the station i use,dont even bother. i wll charge you for my time. and i may press charges if you touch me or kidnap me to the cells.

coppers used to be nice now they all seem to be sociopaths intent on intimidating the public. viz lime street station

Wow. what a strange posting -" look at me I am never in trouble or do wrong so keep away or else".

I would love to be there when the sniffer dog gets to you and you get questioned, expect you will act a bit different then.

As for the app suggestion we do not all have an all singing/all dancing phone (some do not even have a mobile) so although for some it would be a good idea it does not work for all - unless of course they give me an I-phone or Android phone.

My worry with the scheme is that some jumped up toss pot will have one of these things around is neck and will try and boss around those of us do not have one.

 

[passmore]

I am a Sergeant with the British Transport Police; I would be interested in the thoughts and opinions of forum members on this topic and would welcome responses as it would be very helpful at this stage.

The British Transport Police is looking to pilot a new scheme on the rail network called Railway Watch based around the North London Hub stations and covering the network out from London.

This scheme is intended to be similar to those already running at the major UK Airports and centres on Rail Enthusiasts becoming members of the scheme and helping to combat terrorism and crime on the rail network by raising awareness and reporting suspicious activity. Members would have a distinctive ID card on a lanyard with the idea that this would show Station Staff and Police that the holder was a member of the scheme while on the railway.

I recognise that the Rail Enthusiast community is well placed to notice such activity and as a group, understand the railway and are committed to its safe running. I see this scheme as a unique opportunity for Rail Enthusiasts to become part of the wider Rail family and to be recognised as the valuable resource they are when taking part in their lawful hobby.

Do you see this as a good idea and would you want to become a member?

I would appreciate your views on this scheme and would be pleased to answer any questions you have about Railway Watch, I am currently on shift and will aim to answer all posts at the earliest opportunity.

I don't think this will be a good idea as it will encourage those that are in the scheme to question enthusiasts who are abiding by the rules what they're doing etc. It will be an excuse to put common sense back on the backburner and before long, we will see an increase in problems experienced by photographers again.
A better idea would be to help rail staff at larger stations tackle established problems such as fare evasion. I know that the majority of individuals who might sign up to this will perhaps not have the experience needed to deal in this respect, but it will be better than asking a photographer about their presence in the station as nine times out of ten, every photographer that I've met is sensible and abides by the rules of the station, including signing in when required.

 

[MadCommuter]

Although a commuter is possibly more likely to be on 'auto pilot' and not notice things out of the ordinary?

They are used to seeing the same things and generally the same people every day. When something is amiss, it stands out.

I take your point about auto-pilot, but with the sheer numbers, surely someone has had a strong coffee!

They also travel at peak times which if 7/7 was anything to go by, that it is the terrorists chosen time too. Perhaps the BTP don't want to alarm the railway's bread and butter? All it really needs is a poster campaign with BTP's phone number on it. This whole scheme seems a lot of effort for little gain, unless there are of course ulterior motives.

 

[jon0844]

I bet any existing developer of a train times app would gladly add such a feature to their app.

Given how people do now report things they see, if only via social networking mostly, the public would see value in being able to report incidents in a more useful way.

You can report potholes with GPS coordinates so why not incidents to BTP? Or even the regular police?

Sent from my Sony Ericsson Xperia arc via Tapatalk.

 

[CliveJones]

arnt you btp getting guns shortly too?

Good god I hope not! I wouldn't call BTP anymore, it would be like that vigilante sceen in the Simpsons where the guns keep going off! Think ill take my chances with the ruffians instead. At least the only have planks of wood with nails in them.

 

[GB]

There will be units within the BTP that will be armed...just like the regular police. Not every officer, probably not even the majority, will carry firearms.

 

[LE Greys]

There will be units within the BTP that will be armed...just like the regular police. Not every officer, probably not even the majority, will carry firearms.

Although judging by a number of firearms incidents in the last few years, arming the Police might be a good idea.

 

[bluenoxid]

They cannot be everywhere, especially not at unstaffed stations?

So what's the point of carrying a membership card?

Thank you for all of your responses; it seems that the proposal of this scheme is striking the right chord with many rail enthusiasts and that it is seen by many of you as a positive idea.

Can I clear up a few points that have been raised so far?

Railway Watch is a British Transport Police initiative, it is still in a proposal form at this stage and I am looking at how we can bring it into action. As such, we don’t have any specific information on the BTP web pages at the moment but I am working on this.

Railway Watch is aimed at encouraging Rail Enthusiasts to report suspicious activity and incidents on the railway; it is not about preventing Enthusiasts from following their hobby or giving members more rights or access but is aimed at helping to support a safe environment on the rail network by encouraging rail enthusiasts to become part of the Rail Community.

As a scheme, it is intended that it would be administered by the British Transport Police and the idea of a membership card is so that members can be visible to the Railway and the Police. You wouldn’t have to be a member to be on the rail network and a membership ID card would not give the holder any extra privilege or access but it would show that the holder was committed to helping keep the railway as a safe environment.

The card would identify the holder and have direct crime reporting contact numbers on it as well as a membership id and would be the similar to the membership cards issued to the schemes already in place at the UK airports.

I am aware that, in the past, there have been instances where rail enthusiasts have been challenged whilst taking photographs on the rail network, it is intended that this scheme would raise awareness with both the Rail operators and the public that Rail Enthusiasts are a valid resource and that, on the whole they are engaged in a lawful pastime.

Please note, there are information pages on all of the Train Operating companies, Network Rail and British Transport Police websites with guidance for rail enthusiasts pursuing their hobby on the Rail Network.

Thank you for all your posts, I will keep you updated.

A lot of money and effort will be wasted on what is effectively a scheme that doesn't really help anyone. If you need to advertise anything, then inform the magazines and the forums but apart from that you're wasting money.

I would hope that anyone on or around the network would report suspicious activity, whether a member or not. Maybe I'm living in a dream world?

But if you do not have a contact number to hand, by the time you find one it may be too late. One advantage of a scheme like this is that it encourages the participants to know who or what to call.

As simple as two numbers and one you should know anyway, 999. :roll:

I can't really support this. One way or another, it is the enthusiasts that will pay the financial cost of the scheme.

Why don't you just make a joint website with Network Rail with all the information for how to report crime etc. Printable leaflets, tell people to save the number to their phone. Even have an app that can report the gps co-ordinates or send a photo. It is 2011. Be innovative instead of dishing out lanyards. Add value.

Just seems like a big waste of money to me in it's current form.

Exactly. An app is not necessary but I think the benefits of a rail vandalism submission with crimes and vandalism would be helpful and not something that shows some poor sod who has just happened to be picking their nose at the wrong moment.

You're putting a lot of money and effort into something that WILL NOT ADD VALUE.