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The rapid rise of fare dodging in Switzerland

Trainbike46

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The difference being that in the UK, closed gates always have staff present. In the Netherlands, this is often not the case. I agree that some potential fare dodgers will probably pay something, but as I wrote, I have yet to see any before/after comparison of fare dodging and then a comparison of the costs of the gates with the decrease in fare dodging (if any). It's as if they don't want the public to know what that looks like and I wonder why.
One purpose of the gatelines in the Netherlands was the well-established issue of people unintentionally forgetting to touch in or out (or both) with the OV-chipkaart - before gates this was pretty common, and while I'm sure it still happens, a gateline makes forgetting much less likely. It also makes it more obvious that fare evasion starting from any gated station is intentional.
 
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rg177

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One purpose of the gatelines in the Netherlands was the well-established issue of people unintentionally forgetting to touch in or out (or both) with the OV-chipkaart - before gates this was pretty common, and while I'm sure it still happens, a gateline makes forgetting much less likely. It also makes it more obvious that fare evasion starting from any gated station is intentional.
Yes, a couple of years back, I took a service from a station that was ungated and also had readers to indicate a transfer from NS to a private operator.

Just after the (privately operated) service departed, a woman came frantically down the train, and I asked if she was okay. Turns out she'd forgotten to use the (fairly well set back, against the wall) readers to switch operators, and was in search of a conductor. Unfortunately the train was DOO!

Many gates in the Netherlands are body-height, so you'd have to be rather determined to hop over them (and it'd be very obvious that you weren't going to pay).
 

Krokodil

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I'm sure I'm not the only forum member to have seen plenty of people brazenly barge through LU ticket gates, knowingly in full view of LU staff, who they no doubt know are told not to intervene.
4 million people use London Underground every day. Most of them pay, a large number of evaders is a tiny minority in that context.

A Times reporter recently watched the gateline at Stratford and estimated that someone forced the gates or tailgated every 90 seconds. How many legitimate passengers passed through in that time? Quite a lot in the peak
 

deltic

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Because there's often no staff at or near the gates. Fare dodgers can (and do) jump the gates, or follow closely behind someone else. Watch any gateline at a bigger station for a few minutes are you'll see it.
I've yet to see any comparison between before and after installing the gates.
On privatisation SW trains installed ticket gates on a commercial basis at selected stations and saw the pay back period was far shorter than they had anticipated.
 

Krokodil

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On privatisation SW trains installed ticket gates on a commercial basis at selected stations and saw the pay back period was far shorter than they had anticipated.
Same with Arriva Trains Wales. They reinstated several gatelines and found that the expected payback period of two years was down to as little as a month in some cases.
 

rvdborgt

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On privatisation SW trains installed ticket gates on a commercial basis at selected stations and saw the pay back period was far shorter than they had anticipated.
Now that's something Dutch operators keep very silent about.
 

deltic

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Now that's something Dutch operators keep very silent about.

According to a 2015 Dutch press item the impact was an increase of 2% in ticket sales at those stations where gates went in which presumably led to the drive to cover the whole network. https://nos.nl/artikel/2076292-ns-verkoopt-dagelijks-24-000-extra-kaartjes-na-sluiten-poortjes

Op treinstations waar de toegangspoortjes de afgelopen tijd zijn dichtgegaan, verkoopt de NS 2 procent meer kaartjes dan voorheen. De maatregel levert landelijk 24.000 extra betalende reizigers per dag op, heeft de NS onderzocht.
 

RailWonderer

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In a middle sized station, whilst chatting to Japanese managers from JR East about fare evasion, a place with near 100% of people paying, someone actually jumped the gates right infront of us. The guy on the barrier stood next to us, looked puzzled, asking if this was staged, but I assured him it was not - it was just some local kid. Absolutely priceless. In fairness the response to this fare evader was akin to a counterterrorism police rugby tackle, guessing they don't get so many of them, but just proves the point, wherever the railway goes, so do the fare dodgers.
I'm amazed you found someone in Japan who spoke decent English (unless you speak Japanese). Relatives of mine have been and told me almost no one spoke more than a few words.
I went to Swizterland a couple of weeks ago and had my ticket checked on all but the busiest of trains.

The SBB double decker each had a team of 3 or 4 people checking tickets. Even the private narrow gauge concerns had plenty of ticket checks, I took a Zentral Bahn train from Luzern to Interlaken and there was a team of 2 or 3 inspectors on there.
Tickets are inspected on all SBB services apart from S-bahn as standard, a guard told me. I imagine a lot of fare dodging is done on S-bahns since every single RE, IR, IC and EC have ticket inspectors as standard, hence no need for barriers. If you think about it, gateline staff only replace on-train inspectors and then you have the cost of barrier installation which, as said up the thread, people can jump over, push though or sneak behind somebody else anyway. It could also be SBB believe in an open, barrier-free railway as principle.
 

Tester

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I'm amazed you found someone in Japan who spoke decent English (unless you speak Japanese). Relatives of mine have been and told me almost no one spoke more than a few words.
I am there right now and that is absolutely not the case.

Tickets are inspected on all SBB services apart from S-bahn as standard, a guard told me. I imagine a lot of fare dodging is done on S-bahns since every single RE, IR, IC and EC have ticket inspectors as standard, hence no need for barriers. If you think about it, gateline staff only replace on-train inspectors and then you have the cost of barrier installation which, as said up the thread, people can jump over, push though or sneak behind somebody else anyway. It could also be SBB believe in an open, barrier-free railway as principle.
Bit in bold.....

A guard may have told you this, but it isn't true.

Many trains run without ticket inspectors - they are clearly marked with an 'eye' symbol, and relevant information in various languages (including English).
 
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RailWonderer

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I am there right now and that is absolutely not the case.


Bit in bold.....

A guard may have told you this, but it isn't true.

Many trains run without ticket inspectors - they are clearly marked with an 'eye' symbol, and relevant information in various languages (including English).
He might have been referring to the Zurich area only since that was where I was. The eye symbol shows up on some regional trains, but every single service - and I've been on many in Switzerland - had inspectors, but since units are often doubled up without gangways it could be the inspectors are in one set and not the other and switch en-route like they do over here. If they are short of staff it's possible they run services without inspectors.
 
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In Switzerland, most local and regional services, as well as the S-Bahn, work on a 'self-control' principle ie. you are expected to have a ticket or be fined heavily if controlled (v. similar to a Penalty Fare) This is what the 'eye' symbol is about On other services, in principle there is a ticket inspection but recent visits there since Christmas suggest that this is becoming more infrequent. Perhaps 1 in 3 services used seem to have been in this category.

It is worth bearing in mind that the Swiss ticketing system is fairly simple, ie. there are one-ways, day tickets, seasons and (on SBB) a very few advance fares., few time restrictions and split ticketing is not a thing. So there is little room for debate for ticket validity: better for everyone! You either have a ticket for the journey being made or you do not.

That said, the big increase in ticketless travel does seem very large: this may just be due to more spot-control on the S-Bahns and a much larger regional network in Geneva under the Leman Express scheme, which began a few years ago, with many trains going into France (where different policies and practices apply)....?
 

Krokodil

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If you think about it, gateline staff only replace on-train inspectors
Not really. Gatelines keep workloads onboard manageable. They make sure that most passengers (all those boarding at major stations) do have some form of ticket, which gives me more time to deal with the iffy ones without letting everyone else walk free. Onboard my options for dealing with a "f*** off, I'm not paying" are very limited. Gatelines keep most of these at bay. This is all UK experience of course, and levels of public misbehaviour vary by country.
 

yorksrob

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Not really. Gatelines keep workloads onboard manageable. They make sure that most passengers (all those boarding at major stations) do have some form of ticket, which gives me more time to deal with the iffy ones without letting everyone else walk free. Onboard my options for dealing with a "f*** off, I'm not paying" are very limited. Gatelines keep most of these at bay. This is all UK experience of course, and levels of public misbehaviour vary by country.

True.

I still prefer the bloke with the clippers to the faceless barrier.
 

yorkie

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... split ticketing is not a thing. ...
It is; if you want to travel from one city to another, then the overall best value fare may be two zonal tickets, one for each city region, and a point-to-point ticket to bridge the gap. I did this for a journey from Zurich to
Basel via Frick, on the advice of a forum member based in Switzerland.

Here is another example:
You can sometimes save a few francs in Switerland. This often happens where you're making a trip that's mostly within one of the regional fares networks but includes a short hop outside of it. For example, with Zurich HB (SVV) to Altendorf (OSTWIND) when returning within a day, where you can get a ZVV 9 o'clock day pass plus one zone in OSTWIND. Pleasantly, SBB actively enables users to take advantage of these savings with it's Easyride app feature, where it tracks your travel within a day and then gives you the cheapest set of tickets afterwards.


In addition, 'Supersaver' (advance) tickets are increasing in Switzerland and may not be available for the full journey:
  • Supersaver tickets are not available for all connections and not during rush hours.
 
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Route115?

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I've heard stories that people have been fined in Switzerland trains for purchasing tickets on their mobiles after the train has just left the station. They must be bought a few minutes before travel. (Fortunately it doesn't affect me, I always travel with a paper pass or ticket.)
 
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185143

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I've heard stories that people have been fined in Switzweland trains for purchasing tickets on their mobiles after the train has just left the station. They must be bought a few minutes before travel. (Fortunately it doesn't affect me, I always travel with a paper pass or ticket.)
Plenty of stories like this in the Disputes & Prosecutions thread from this country to be fair.
 

dm1

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There are a few different possible causes of this rise beyond just more people dodging fares more
1. Electronic ticketing has increasingly become the standard, with the vast majority of tickets now either e-tickets bought online, or mobile ticketing, unless they are a season ticket on a SwissPass smartcard. Therefore more people are leaving ticket purchase until the last minute. Sometimes that goes wrong, both from the passenger's side (started purchase too late, payment method didn't work), and from the railway's side (EasyRide did not activate properly. purchase made before train departure didn't go through until after departure). Onboard staff typically press a button on their mobile device to log a timestamp upon departure from each station. Any ticket subsequently scanned which originates from that station but was (logged to have been) purchased later than this timestamp is automatically displayed as invalid and can lead to fines/penalty fares, even if the ticket check does not take place until hours later.
3. EasyRide, while fantastic and extremely convenient, will naturally lead to more situations of mobile phones dying and people being unable to show their ticket. These usually result in a penalty.
4. At some point since 2019, there has been a noticable shift in the approach taken during ticket checks. Previously, onboard staff had a lot of leeway to manage ticket irregularities as they saw fit. Nowadays the policy seems to be to record details and let the back office sort it out later, often leading to significantly less leniency than previously, and more records in the fare-dodging register.
6. During the pandemic, there were almost no ticket checks onboard trains. That has since changed, but people's fare-dodging habits may not have caught up with that.
7. The Swiss fares system, while not the quagmire that is the British rail fares system, still has its complexities and quirks that can lead to people getting caught out. For example, first class upgrades (from a second class ticket) can be purchased on staffed trains without penalty just by sitting in first class and paying during the ticket check. Doing the same thing on trains without onboard staff can lead to a penalty fare if a random check occurs. Which trains are which is not always entirely obvious, especially if you are not interested in railways.


On staffing - typically IR, IC, EC, ICE and TGV services have onboard staff, S and RE services typically do not. Random checks can happen anywhere. The eye symbol, which is now present on almost all swiss trains, indicates that a ticket must be purchased before boarding and cannot be bought on board without penalty. This is separate from whether the train has onboard staff or not, most still do. On trains with onboard staff, tickets will be checked more often than not. On S and RE trains, ticket checks are much rarer, but usually targeted. You can go months without a single check, and then be randomly checked multiple times within a week. Checks are also more common on zonal boundaries. On the narrow-gauge networks, there is more variation, but the same general rules apply.

On split ticketing - while it is much less common and much less useful than the UK, it can sometimes still save money, particularly as mentioned above if it allows you to use zonal instead of distance-based tickets (or the opposite, if saver tickets are available and cheaper than the zonal fare). It can also be useful for international journeys e.g. when travelling between Zurich and Munich, splitting at one or more of the 3 border stations along the way (St. Margrethen, Lindau, Bregenz) and checking all 3 operators (SBB, ÖBB, DB) and the current EUR CHF exchange rate can often save some money.

Notably, unlike the UK, most of these split ticketing options have implications on their validity and passenger rights. Splitting international tickets means each component may be classed as a domestic journey leading to diffferent passenger rights applying in case of delay or cancellation. Zonal tickets have broader validity on any mode within the zones of validity, but are usually time-based, whereas direct (non-zonal) tickets are only valid on a direct route towards the destination, but without a time restriction on the day of validity (except itinerary-specific saver tickets). Non-saver direct tickets typically allow unlimited break of journey along the way during the day, whereas zonal tickets only allow this during their window of validity.

I would add that to me, the swiss system of managing fare evasion makes much more sense than the mess of penalty fares and prosecutions in the UK. If you are caught evading a fare, you will be charged a penalty fare and be put on a register of fare-dodgers, with the penalty increasing each time. If the penalty is not paid, it will be recovered through the debt recovery process like any other civil debt. Prosecution is reserved for fraud or repeated large-scale evasion and is done by cantonal prosecutors, not by the operators. There is no legalised blackmail with outrageous out-of-court settlement offers and threats of criminal prosecution as there is in the UK. Moreover, fares are set in such a way that fare evasion rarely pays off compared to just buying tickets or a monthly/annual season ticket in the long run. Those who try to evade fares are typically those with a higher risk appetite - i.e. younger men.

Ticket barriers are not really under discussion in Switzerland, because the open system relies on transfers during a journey (the so-called transport chain) being as smooth and convenient as possible, including from tram/bus to train. For example, Zurich HB has no less than 4 underground subways connecting all the platforms with each other and the adjacent tram stops, to ensure that transfers can be consistently, quickly, and reliably made between modes. Introducing ticket barriers would create congestion, lead to detours, and slow down passenger flow, causing delays during transfers of up to 5 minutes. Just those 5 minutes can then lead to arriving at the destination up to 30 or even 60 minutes later. The Swiss have spent millions on station upgrades in order to save billions on line upgrades. Introducing ticket barriers would compromise that. More recently, the role of these subways in reducing the social divide caused by the railway tracks and their potential as shopping destinations has also been recognised more - and putting them behind ticket barriers would destroy that.
 

Via Bank

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I certainly have noticed on much of the Swiss system (and in much of Germany too) how many of the subways and bridges in the stations are not just public rights of way, but key pedestrian/cycle routes that connect two sides of a town or suburb together. Barriering them would be a total non-starter, it would be the Guildford saga writ large.
 

thejuggler

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Just back from a weekend in Geneva with a trip to Montreaux on the excellent rail system.

Service out was inter regional and tickets were checked. However we were in the third block of seats and it took ages for the inspector to get to us and speaking to a passenger next to us who spoke far better French than me it was because many passengers didn't have a ticket.

Took the fenicular to Glion, again ticket bought on trust as there are no staff on the fenicular.

Service on return was a local stopping service and no checks. I can only assume part of the reliability is timetable padding as at one point we were 3 minutes late to a station, yet two stations later (about 15 minutes trip time) we were back on time.

All visitors receive a free public transport pass and we used it on dozens of trams, trolleybuses, normal buses and water taxis and never saw a ticket check. Just jumping on and off without needing to scan, stamp or prove you have a ticket is very strange. The distances you can cover with the pass is also vast.
 

DeverseSam

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All visitors receive a free public transport pass and we used it on dozens of trams, trolleybuses, normal buses and water taxis and never saw a ticket check. Just jumping on and off without needing to scan, stamp or prove you have a ticket is very strange.
Don’t the bus drivers want to see
 

bahnause

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Service on return was a local stopping service and no checks. I can only assume part of the reliability is timetable padding as at one point we were 3 minutes late to a station, yet two stations later (about 15 minutes trip time) we were back on time.

All visitors receive a free public transport pass and we used it on dozens of trams, trolleybuses, normal buses and water taxis and never saw a ticket check. Just jumping on and off without needing to scan, stamp or prove you have a ticket is very strange. The distances you can cover with the pass is also vast.
There is no more time buffer than in other European countries. What is used to a much greater amount is the distinction between the operational and the published timetable. Not every station in regional transport is a ‘time reference station’. Many intermediate stations have departure times, which are technically not achievable. If several such stations follow each other, it is possible that three minutes of delay are already built into the public timetable ‘by default’ and are then compensated for at a later station. With this system, you don't have to wait until the next full minute at each station, so you save travelling time overall.

Ticket inspections on the bus by the driver are a thing of the past; they are only carried out in very few cases. The time required for this is untenable with today's passenger numbers.
 

johncrossley

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You can often enter via any door, certainly in cities. So no, the bus drivers don't necessarily want to see it.

Even outside of cities you can normally get on at any door. I've been on many regular Postbus services without needing to show a ticket to the driver. The only difference is that in cities you can't buy a ticket from the driver if there is a machine at the bus stop whereas on a Postbus you can pay the driver if you want a ticket.
 

furnessvale

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It's roughly the same as here, the farmer is responsible for keeping livestock off railways and roads.

The difference is that we rely on permanent fencing. Germanland instead often uses temporary electric fences and keeps moving the animals around what we would think of as a single field to even out the grazing.
Idon't know where "here" is, but unless things have changed since I retired, it is not the case in the UK that the farmer is responsible for keeping animals off the track. Lineside fencing to a set standrad is the responsibility of the railway. The standard where animals are involved being post and 5 wire in normal circumstances, and post and 7 wire if lambs were involved. Being an engineer, I do not know the commercial arrangement as to who spoke to who if lambs were involved.

As a junior draughtsman, my very first jobs were "sheep claims", where animals of any breed had found their way onto the line. I had to examine the fencing to see if it was up to standard. If not to standard, I would try and trace the route the animals took to get to the defective fence. If they passed through other fences within the farmers land before reaching the railway, this went into my report as grounds to reject the claim. The legal dept sorted out the niceties.

Thank God I soon moved on to designing track layouts which is why I joined the railway in the first place!
 

iknowyeah

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I've had a few bad experiences with SBB ticket staff, and also their ticketing sales and policies, and some of the staff seem to have an attitude of going out to actively book up as many people as possible, valid ticket or not
 

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I've had a few bad experiences with SBB ticket staff, and also their ticketing sales and policies, and some of the staff seem to have an attitude of going out to actively book up as many people as possible, valid ticket or not

SBB is simple. The ticketing is simple, with no confusion over routeing (it's printed on the ticket), and the rule is that you must have one before you set foot on the train regardless of what sale options are available (so it's prudent to carry both cash and card as there are at least in theory no exceptions at all in "eye" self-check areas - basically if the TVM is broken the station is closed unless you buy on your phone or already have a ticket). The rules on intercity trains with guards at least used to be a bit more lenient (the guard was able to accept certain specified excuses like "clueless tourist" but had to charge a small on board issue fee regardless of reason) but on DOO regional trains it's absolute.

If you follow the rules to the letter, as tends to be the approach in life generally in German speaking Switzerland (the French bit is more like France and a bit slacker in life generally, same with the Italian bit) you won't have a problem. However equally if caught you're not going to be fending off a prosecution or similar - you'll simply get a penalty fare which is £100ish plus the unpaid fare.
 

RT4038

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Idon't know where "here" is, but unless things have changed since I retired, it is not the case in the UK that the farmer is responsible for keeping animals off the track. Lineside fencing to a set standrad is the responsibility of the railway. The standard where animals are involved being post and 5 wire in normal circumstances, and post and 7 wire if lambs were involved. Being an engineer, I do not know the commercial arrangement as to who spoke to who if lambs were involved.

As a junior draughtsman, my very first jobs were "sheep claims", where animals of any breed had found their way onto the line. I had to examine the fencing to see if it was up to standard. If not to standard, I would try and trace the route the animals took to get to the defective fence. If they passed through other fences within the farmers land before reaching the railway, this went into my report as grounds to reject the claim. The legal dept sorted out the niceties.

Thank God I soon moved on to designing track layouts which is why I joined the railway in the first place!
I do not think fare dodging by livestock is not really an issue in the UK, but possibly in Switzerland they pay no heed whatsoever to the railway ticketing regulations? I cannot imagine how else this subject of 7 wire lambs falls within the ambit of this thread heading?
 

iknowyeah

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SBB is simple. The ticketing is simple, with no confusion over routeing (it's printed on the ticket), and the rule is that you must have one before you set foot on the train regardless of what sale options are available (so it's prudent to carry both cash and card as there are at least in theory no exceptions at all in "eye" self-check areas - basically if the TVM is broken the station is closed unless you buy on your phone or already have a ticket). The rules on intercity trains with guards at least used to be a bit more lenient (the guard was able to accept certain specified excuses like "clueless tourist" but had to charge a small on board issue fee regardless of reason) but on DOO regional trains it's absolute.

If you follow the rules to the letter, as tends to be the approach in life generally in German speaking Switzerland (the French bit is more like France and a bit slacker in life generally, same with the Italian bit) you won't have a problem. However equally if caught you're not going to be fending off a prosecution or similar - you'll simply get a penalty fare which is £100ish plus the unpaid fare.
Well seeing as I had one guard refuse to read my coupon, and just say "no" when I asked him to, I'll take my experience over this essay, it feels every month I go, the staff get worse
 

furnessvale

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I do not think fare dodging by livestock is not really an issue in the UK, but possibly in Switzerland they pay no heed whatsoever to the railway ticketing regulations? I cannot imagine how else this subject of 7 wire lambs falls within the ambit of this thread heading?
The mods are free to split the thread if they wish, but it is wrong to let false information go unchallenged.
 

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