which dmus can operate DOO?

[TheWalrus]

What units could operate DOO and which ones could be modified to do so?

 

[westcoaster]

165/166

 

[Southern Dvr]

Class 171 can DOO(NP)

 

[Schnellzug]

i don't see why, tehcnically, a Voyager couldn't, as the doors are controlled by the driver, aren't they?

 

[transportphoto]

A 170 can, I have seen it done, it used to happen on the East Suffolk to London Liv St services, DOO from Ipswich. It could have been for the Peterborough to Liv St aswell, not sure.

tP

 

[driver9000]

All the Pacer and Sprinter types were built with DOO in mind and were fitted with door controls in the cabs. They were never commissioned though and some have since been removed. Most if not all ECS moves with DMUs are Driver only.

Cab controls are in place on 170s, 175s, and 180s - Voyagers work in a semi DOO mode with doors enabled by the Driver but closed by the Guard.

 

[district]

Southern 171's on the Ashford Brighton line have doors released by driver and closed by the guard.

 

[TheWalrus]

So 172s can? And will they be?

 

[Southern Dvr]

Southern 171's on the Ashford Brighton line have doors released by driver and closed by the guard.

Not so far as I know.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

So 172s can? And will they be?

They already are on Chiltern.

 

[TheWalrus]

So 172s can? And will they be?

They already are on Chiltern.

What about lm?

 

[Mojo]

Also 168s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What about lm?

There aren't any diesel routes which are DOO in passenger service on London Midland.

 

[TheWalrus]

Also 168s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What about lm?

There aren't any diesel routes which are DOO in passenger service on London Midland.

ok. So they could but wont?

 

[ChrisCooper]

It's not just the trains that need to be DOO but the routes. Stations need mirrors or CCTV displays. The entire route needs Cab Secure Radio coverage. It's also got to get past the Unions, and they wouldn't be too happy at the prospect of their members loosing their jobs or being downgraded (lets not start a DOO vs. guards debate, just stating the facts here). It's why the Lowestoft and Peterborough to London services were only DOO south of Ipswich as the line south of Ipswich is cleared for DOO but north is not. There are plenty of EMUs which can run DOO that run with guards. Chilterns 172s are DOO but other than the Birmingham service Chiltern has been DOO since the 165s arrived. LO 172s have guards, as do the 378s.

 

[TheWalrus]

It's not just the trains that need to be DOO but the routes. Stations need mirrors or CCTV displays. The entire route needs Cab Secure Radio coverage. It's also got to get past the Unions, and they wouldn't be too happy at the prospect of their members loosing their jobs or being downgraded (lets not start a DOO vs. guards debate, just stating the facts here). It's why the Lowestoft and Peterborough to London services were only DOO south of Ipswich as the line south of Ipswich is cleared for DOO but north is not. There are plenty of EMUs which can run DOO that run with guards. Chilterns 172s are DOO but other than the Birmingham service Chiltern has been DOO since the 165s arrived. LO 172s have guards, as do the 378s.

i realise that but wheres the mirror at bedwyn? I dont recall one there im sure theres not one at every station!

 

[anthony263]

i realise that but wheres the mirror at bedwyn? I dont recall one there im sure theres not one at every station!

Not been to Bedwyn but if the platforms straight and the driver can see down the length or the trains would he really need a mirror is their head is out of the window checking to make sure the doors are clear?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

i realise that but wheres the mirror at bedwyn? I dont recall one there im sure theres not one at every station!

There isnt a mirror at every DOO station. A lot of stations with straight platforms, or platforms which curve into the train where the saloon doors open on the left hand side in the direction of travel (ie, non island platforms where the doors are on the drivers side of the train) can be "look back" stations. The driver is expected to look back from his/her window before closing the doors and look again to make sure everything is as it should be before taking power. It is often a point of contention amongst drivers and is often discussed at health and safety meetings. Personally I think there should be a mirror or CCTV monitors at every DOO station.

 

[ChrisCooper]

There isnt a mirror at every DOO station. A lot of stations with straight platforms, or platforms which curve into the train where the saloon doors open on the left hand side in the direction of travel (ie, non island platforms where the doors are on the drivers side of the train) can be "look back" stations. The driver is expected to look back from his/her window before closing the doors and look again to make sure everything is as it should be before taking power. It is often a point of contention amongst drivers and is often discussed at health and safety meetings. Personally I think there should be a mirror or CCTV monitors at every DOO station.

That's actually why I said it because whilst earlier DOO conversions allowed look back in certain circumstances I can't see it being allowed on any future routes converted to DOO. There is another option which is onboard cameras, as fitted to some Electrostars, but the 172s don't have these.

 

[150001]

If LM continue with their current practice, it will still be the guard who will control the doors. However it may change to the Driver releasing the doors and then closing them when the conductor gives the signal . 3 bell pattern isn't it? Then the conductor gives two presses of the buzzer to the driver which he replies to. That is what Chiltern do.

 

[jopsuk]

With the driver sitting on the left, look-back is of course not possible where the platform is on the right- such as island platforms.

 

[westcoaster]

With the driver sitting on the left, look-back is of course not possible where the platform is on the right- such as island platforms.

It is possible, we do it. All you have to do is stand up cross to the other side of the cab, open the window and look back.

 

[ChrisCooper]

If LM continue with their current practice, it will still be the guard who will control the doors. However it may change to the Driver releasing the doors and then closing them when the conductor gives the signal . 3 bell pattern isn't it? Then the conductor gives two presses of the buzzer to the driver which he replies to. That is what Chiltern do.

That's going to add a few more crucial seconds onto dwell time though, which is not good on runs with lots of stops like the LM 172s will be doing. Instead of the guard closing the doors themselves they are signalling to the driver to close the doors, so it takes longer. As far as I know only the Voyagers and Possibly Pendolinos do that, and there it doesn't matter as much because they are not stopping as often (for a Voyager 30 seconds is about the time between the guard signalling to close the doors and signalling right away). Chiltern mostly run DOO. The Birmingham services use guards, but I can't see why they wouldn't have the guard controlling the doors as on other Turbostars. The 121 has the driver release the doors but the guard lock them. This is quite common and possibly will be used by LM, and perhaps is what Chiltern do.

 

[TDK]

That's going to add a few more crucial seconds onto dwell time though, which is not good on runs with lots of stops like the LM 172s will be doing. Instead of the guard closing the doors themselves they are signalling to the driver to close the doors, so it takes longer. As far as I know only the Voyagers and Possibly Pendolinos do that, and there it doesn't matter as much because they are not stopping as often (for a Voyager 30 seconds is about the time between the guard signalling to close the doors and signalling right away). Chiltern mostly run DOO. The Birmingham services use guards, but I can't see why they wouldn't have the guard controlling the doors as on other Turbostars. The 121 has the driver release the doors but the guard lock them. This is quite common and possibly will be used by LM, and perhaps is what Chiltern do.

On Chiltern the driver both releases and closes the doors
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If LM continue with their current practice, it will still be the guard who will control the doors. However it may change to the Driver releasing the doors and then closing them when the conductor gives the signal . 3 bell pattern isn't it? Then the conductor gives two presses of the buzzer to the driver which he replies to. That is what Chiltern do.

The bell/buzzer code for close power doors is 1-2

 

[Southern Dvr]

The Class 172s are being built in line with the other Turbostars so the guard will have full control of the doors from either the back cab or within the train I suspect.

On a Voyager the guard signals (1-2) to close the doors which is repeated by the driver and the doors close. This is then followed by (2) and that is repeated by the driver and train departs. The procedure is reffered to as '10 bell' down here.

 

[150001]

Thought so

 

[222001]

222s also have driver door controls.