And even the stations that do have them; Snow Hill you can exit via the Tram platforms, New Street you can exit via the lifts and Moor Street you can use the other exit which is only staffed in peak hours.
East Coast don't even have any barriers, not at York, Donnie or Peterborough
Very good point. Not even Coventry, Birmingham Intl, or Wolverhampton (Virgin-run stations) have barriers. Virgin on the whole are not keen on barriers.
And even the stations that do have them; Snow Hill you can exit via the Tram platforms, New Street you can exit via the lifts and Moor Street you can use the other exit which is only staffed in peak hours.
Guys I really dont understand this! They are potentially losing so much money! Barriers work fine in the South East where I live and in my view they should be all over the UK by now. The initial cost of installing ticket machines / barriers will be repaid many times over.Plus to add, the big companies don't seem to be that big on the barriers
LM don't have any at their stations in the midlands but they do at Northampton, Bletchley and Milton Keynes Central, possibly the only two
VT don't have any at their stations I think
Cross Country don't have any stations
East Coast don't even have any barriers, not at York, Donnie or Peterborough
The first companies that you would have to go to as far the barriers ar concerned are Arriva, ScotRail, First Capital Connect and East Midlands Trains!
They do at Darlington, Durham and Newcastle though. Horrible.
I don't think most people would put "the staff make the rules up as they go along" on their list of "major problems".
Why are they horrible? Anything that prevents fraud surely has to be good for the railway network?
Why are they horrible? Anything that prevents fraud surely has to be good for the railway network?
Barriers aren't suitable for every scenario. I'm sure other can talk at more length than I can about places where they are less suitable. They are definitely suitable for some stations, though.
Barriers aren't suitable for every scenario. I'm sure other can talk at more length than I can about places where they are less suitable. They are definitely suitable for some stations, though.
Fair enough but if they can work in the confines of a tube station (some aren't all that big) I don't see why they can't be successfully installed in large inter-city stations such as York and Newcastle. Revenue protection surely has to come before aesthetics?
You can easily see why they are needed at the majority of stations in London and in the centre of Birmingham as well as Scotland but they wouldn't be suitable at local 'commuter type' stations such as, for example, Rugeley TV or Cheadle Hulme
They are in the process of fitting the machines
As far as barriers go, I don't think that many LM stations in the West Mids have them, Snow Hill does and New Street doesn't have barriers per se but they do have people at the barriers but that is probably about it
Very good point. Not even Coventry, Birmingham Intl, or Wolverhampton (Virgin-run stations) have barriers. Virgin on the whole are not keen on barriers.
It isn't an aesthetics problem....more concerns about meeting the passenger's needs, but the anti-barrier argument is for another thread (it'll only derail this one!). There are plenty of pros and cons! They most certainly do not stop fare evasion, however. Evaders move from buying no ticket to deliberately buying the wrong ticket.
And even the stations that do have them; Snow Hill you can exit via the Tram platforms, New Street you can exit via the lifts and Moor Street you can use the other exit which is only staffed in peak hours.
Five Ways and University have them too.
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You wouldn't be able to fit them at Wolverhampton, there simply isn't room. When they have tried to put a manned barrier in there, it gets horribly crowded. They often do this at Coventry too.
Oh dear - you should apply for a job at the DfT! Also the pro-car lobby would be kept happy!Surely "horribly crowded" is a price worth paying
Barriers don't do thatto ensure that everyone has paid for their journey?
How would you do [stn]CRA[/stn] then? 3 exits (one of which is a "night gate" outdoors, another outdoors one next to a level crossing) without causing mayhem? Same with [stn]SBJ[/stn]? And how about [stn]SBT[/stn] too while we're at it?
Each has a link to the station plan, so you can take a look without going there to get a rough idea. Is this really affordable? I doubt it.I have never been to those stations. Please explain how this would cause mayhem!
Oh dear - you should apply for a job at the DfT! Also the pro-car lobby would be kept happy!
Barriers don't do that
In all honesty I've never travelled by train to Wolverhampton but could they not change the station layout in order to install the barriers? Surely "horribly crowded" is a price worth paying to ensure that everyone has paid for their journey?
Each has a link to the station plan, so you can take a look without going there to get a rough idea. Is this really affordable? I doubt it.
No I'm quite happy with my current job! Surely the barrier will not let you pass unless you have bought a ticket? At least that is my experience of travelling on the railway.
I think (way in the back of my head) there are long term plans for a new entrance.
The space for barriers in the current layout would be beneath the clock in the first photograph and where the WH Smith cage is in the third. You'd probably get one gate each way plus a bi-directional accessible gate in there, and you'd be able to bypass the barriers by going through the cafe.
At the moment VT put a sign in the middle, and ask people to queue up on the left to be checked by one person in each direction. This blocks entrance to the cafe on one side, and the footbridge on the other.
The alternative would be seperate barriers - one in the gap to the left of the footbridge (provides access to platform 5 - see bottom picture view from other side below), one on the footbridge itself, and an L-shaped one along platform 1 which could be placed past the cafe's platform-side door, and meet the wall behind the lift.
Yes, a ticket. Not the correct ticket.
Barriers do not prevent fare evasion.
Yes, a ticket. Not the correct ticket.
Barriers do not prevent fare evasion.
No thats true but some money is better than no money!
The point is, no it isn't, not always. You'd probably like Manchester Piccadilly and London Euston to be fully barriered. But that doesn't stop someone buying a Manchester-Ardwick and a South Hampstead-Euston ticket for pennies and travelling on a Virgin service from Manchester to London! Virgin won't even receive those pennies!
I am sure you will say the TM on the Virgin service will spot that - yes, if the tickets are checked! The answer lies in more extensive manual checking of tickets, by human beings who have brains are are capable of suspicion and common sense - unlike a barrier.
You shouldn't be on the platform unless you have a ticket.
With regard to the problem of fare evasion:-
If self service ticket machines can be installed on the Matlock branch, I'm sure they could be fitted on your local line too Ian and I've no doubt that this would help with revenue collection. If passengers boarded the train ticket without a ticket they would face a penalty fare and a lesson would be learnt.
I would be interested to know how many LM stations in the West Midlands are fitted with ticket barriers. I've always failed to understand why some forum users don't like them as I've never once had a valid ticket rejected which is generally the main complaint.
Ok but at least passengers are buying a ticket, even if its off peak when it shouldn't be. And that surely saves the guard time as he's not having to use his machine to sell tickets.
In all honesty I've never travelled by train to Wolverhampton but could they not change the station layout in order to install the barriers? Surely "horribly crowded" is a price worth paying to ensure that everyone has paid for their journey?