Places that need a metro system

[VTPreston_Tez]

Where do you think could do with a metro system like the T&W or the Tube? I say Manchester needs an underground line (the city center is manic), Edinburgh may need one, also a possibility of Preston and District metro (including Ormskirk, Lancaster, and some of Fylde)
Anywhere else?

 

[johnnyp_360]

Cambridge would be nice. I know it hasn't got a huge population but it sure has a huge congestion problem.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Manchester is getting a second city centre crossing on Metrolink. I suspect the existing transport network will cover most of Edinburgh's needs too. Passing loops on both the Blackpool South and Ormskirk lines would see a suitable increase to cover future growth on these lines.

Maybe Bristol and Leeds would work.

 

[WestCoast]

My votes go to Bristol and Leeds.

 

[Ivo]

I can't see Leeds working on its own. It is certainly big enough - supposedly the largest city in Europe to have no local rail system at all, although I would suggest that Liverpool is arguably bigger and that Merseyrail does not count - but I just don't think its layout would work. If you could run a combined system with Bradford, then go for it. Bristol is better because (a) there are clear primary routes into the centre which have only a few buses an hour, (b) it is well built in three directions, with only south being a problem, (c) it has a ready-made railway available in the Severn Beach Line, and (d) it would provide better connections between city centre and main station, which is not an issue in Leeds. Both could have hill issues though, and thus potentially long disatances between surface and platforms.

One that I think could work would be Brighton. Remove the local stations on the West Coastway between Worthing and Brighton itself, leaving only Shoreham and Hove, and then convert the Littlehampton and West Worthing terminators into a through Metro service which leaves NR metals at Worthing and runs into Worthing centre, before ultimately terminating at either Falmer or the Marina.

 

[WestCoast]

also a possibility of Preston and District metro (including Ormskirk, Lancaster, and some of Fylde)
Anywhere else?

That's like a suburban rail network rather than a 'metro', comparable to what is called an S-Bahn or RER in parts of mainland Europe.

The best example of this outside National Rail/Overground in Greater London is the rail network serving Glasgow and the surrounding areas, or arguably Merseyrail.

 

[starrymarkb]

Would something like the VAL be suited to smaller cities? They can handle steeper hills then normal metros

 

[142094]

Remember that tunnelling is probably the most expensive form or railway building - so you'd need a helluva lot of money for some of these schemes.

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

That's like a suburban rail network rather than a 'metro', comparable to what is called an S-Bahn or RER in parts of mainland Europe.

The best example of this outside National Rail/Overground in Greater London is the rail network serving Glasgow and the surrounding areas, or arguably Merseyrail.

Merseyrail is the base for it. There would be underground stations such as Cottam, Lea, Beacon Fell, Tanterton, Sherwood Industrial Park, Hospital, Cadley and so on and so forth. The line would connect with Merseyrail at Ormskirk and Northern Rail would more than likely use a new route via either Leyland or possibly from Manchester (that would be a great link)

 

[Ivo]

Keeping my seaside theme going, what about Bournemouth/Poole? Starting at Upton, probably a Parkway facility where the A350 meets the A35, you could run services through Poole, Bournemouth, Boscombe and Christchurch through to New Milton. I'm not sure it "needs" such a system though; I would suggest Southend needs it more than Bournemouth. And that's from an unbiased perspective; from a biased perspective, it is one of the best contenders out there - just run from Pitsea to the seafront, staying under the A13 until Victoria station and then under the High Street...

London Road (i.e. the A13) is pretty hopeless at times, and the bus service is far from adequate.

 

[WestCoast]

Merseyrail is the base for it. There would be underground stations such as Cottam, Lea, Beacon Fell, Tanterton, Sherwood Industrial Park, Hospital, Cadley and so on and so forth. The line would connect with Merseyrail at Ormskirk and Northern Rail would more than likely use a new route via either Leyland or possibly from Manchester (that would be a great link)

That's rather ambitious, underground stations at Cottam and Beacon Fell? hock: You wouldn't even get that sort of service in public-transport crazed Switzerland! A tram maybe, but not a metro to relatively rural areas...

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

That's rather ambitious, underground stations at Cottam and Beacon Fell? hock: You wouldn't even get that sort of service in public-transport crazed Switzerland! A tram maybe, but not a metro to relatively rural areas...

True, there is a lot of countryside so the trains can go underground after arriving at Cottam. There needs to be an express link between Lea, Savick, Larches and the railway station, going down to Broadgate and Frenchwood, maybe to Leyland and linking Newman, Runshaw and possibly Winstanley Colleges.
Keep up the ideas, I'm liking them all! How about a Dorset Village metro, serving West Bay disused station and providing a decent link to Bridport up to Yeovil and go onto SWT territory north of Dorchester South, linking FGW and SWT's Weylines in more places than Upwey/Weymouth.

 

[90019]

Edinburgh may need one

No, it doesn't.

 

[Eagle]

I suspect the tram will cover most of Edinburgh's needs too.

Seriously? It's been hacked back so much that it's now redundant in the face of the (faster) 100 bus!

 

[tbtc]

I suspect the tram will cover most of Edinburgh's needs

Hopefully.

Also, good luck to anyone digging underneath Edinburgh to build an "underground" - look at all the archaeology dug up with the utility diversions for the tram - a whole underground would be bound to bump into several historically interesting sites that couldn't be touched...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Seriously? It's been hacked back so much that it's now redundant in the face of the (faster) 100 bus!

Sorry, been a long day for me! Meant to say that the existing transport network will cover it (i.e. buses and rail). I must have wrote 'tram' as I meant not to write it, if you follow

Post corrected.

 

[tbtc]

Seriously? It's been hacked back so much that it's now redundant in the face of the (faster) 100 bus!

Despite the wavy nature of the Supertram route in Sheffield, it has killed off many faster/direct bus services (even "express" buses).

People arriving at Edinburgh Airport will jump on a tram more often than any bus, even an express bus with wifi/ leather seats etc

 

[WestCoast]

Whatever way you look at it, relying on buses alone in large urban areas is not the answer to future sustainable and efficient public transport. They face the same issues as other road vehicles and simply won't force people out of their cars.

Edinburgh's tram system has been managed disastrously, but now I don't think Nottingham or Sheffield would want to be without their networks!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Thinking about it I do actually agree with what I said before Eagle commented. If the tram project had been handled better I am sure it would be a success story like most other light rail networks in the UK are, given time.

 

[WestCoast]

It's noteworthy that so many tram networks were closed in the first place, but I guess that was the vision of the car and the bus as the methods of future travel. Cities in the rest of Europe didn't subscribe to this view, and often kept their tram networks, which has proved to be a very wise move.

If you go to somewhere like Amsterdam, the trams are effectively the key bus routes of the city, and they operate in addition to a metro.

 

[swt_passenger]

Keeping my seaside theme going, what about Bournemouth/Poole? Starting at Upton, probably a Parkway facility where the A350 meets the A35, you could run services through Poole, Bournemouth, Boscombe and Christchurch through to New Milton. I'm not sure it "needs" such a system though...

Have you accounted for the proposal to run a sleeper service to Bournemouth though...

 

[Eagle]

Keeping my seaside theme going, what about Bournemouth/Poole? Starting at Upton, probably a Parkway facility where the A350 meets the A35, you could run services through Poole, Bournemouth, Boscombe and Christchurch through to New Milton.

We already have something just like that, it's called the train.

 

[stuartmoss]

Leeds could really do with something more than it currently has, I'd love to see a more attractive and up to date mass transport system than what we have. Something like this (but more modern and prettier) over the main arterial roads could work wonders and would be cheaper than tunnelling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOETPhO6P0k

 

[HSTEd]

well if underground metros are out, there are always elevated systems.


Perhaps the Morgantown PRT is worth mentioning?
You can build it in places that could never support a conventional metro line and it has a relatively low capital cost of only ~£15 million/km in todays money.

Could be done more cheaply now with modern electronics/lightweight traction equipment.

 

[Schnellzug]

We already have something just like that, it's called the train.

Yes, but neither Bournemouth nor Christchurch stations are anywhere near the towns they purport to represent.

 

[jopsuk]

Cambridge would be nice. I know it hasn't got a huge population but it sure has a huge congestion problem.

My fantasy public transport solution for Cambridge would see a mainly "cut-and-cover" tramway network built along most of (perhaps all?) the "Citi" bus routes (perhaps not the entire reaches of 7 and 8- but definitely to St Neots with the Citi 4) plus the Guided Bus and P&R routes, to provide greater capacity free from road congestion issues and allow faster running than the buses.

Fantasy, as the £billions don't exist. The river crossings and Castle Hill might be tricky.

On an expansion, I'd include (still cut and cover underground) routes 9-13, using an "express" tram (more seats, less standing room) on these

 

[Robinson]

I seem to remember there had been talk a while back of developing the Glasgow Subway, with new lines into the Gorbals and East End...
Don't know if that still looks like happening; I'd suggest it would be useful as these areas are generally not very well served at the moment by the suburban rail network.

 

[deltabravo]

I would have a metro for West Yorkshire (not just Leeds)

 

[PaulLothian]

I seem to remember there had been talk a while back of developing the Glasgow Subway, with new lines into the Gorbals and East End...
Don't know if that still looks like happening; I'd suggest it would be useful as these areas are generally not very well served at the moment by the suburban rail network.

Alternatively, a Gorbals station could form part of the Glasgow CrossRail proposals using the City Union line, for which most of the infrastructure is still in place, and which could give single-change connections to much of the Strathclyde Rail network.

I wonder whether it really makes sense to extend a system that is not compatible with all other services around it? (Fascinating and enjoyable though I find it!)

 

[Eagle]

I'm not sure it "needs" such a system though; I would suggest Southend needs it more than Bournemouth.

Population of Southend metro area: 200,000
Population of Poole/Bournemouth metro area: 450,000
Also remember SE Dorset is a pluricentric metro area, so it needs strong links between its two major centres.


So... I spent about half an hour or so knocking up an interurban-style tram loop for Poole and Bournemouth; the shorter southern side roughly follows the railway line and the A35, whereas the northern side runs faster through the industrial areas of Poole and along the A347 into Bournemouth. 15 miles long, 43 stations (admittedly I have placed them a bit arbitrarily, and also I haven't paid much attention to road junction layouts and such), and I've got ideas for a few branches too, one of which would require tramtrains....
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