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Idle locos left unattended?
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Some are left near-permanently idling when away from a proper depot to eliminate the chance of the prime mover not starting up again (most important during cold weather) and to reduce wear and tear on particularly the crankcase.
Quite the opposite actually, with a GE 7FDL-16 it's cheaper to leave it idling for 11 hours than to do a full shutdown and subsequent cold start, and an EMD 16-710 is quite similar.
A driver here in Adelaide told me that a GE 7FDL-16 idles so efficiently that it uses less fuel in 6-8 hours of idling than it does to do a cold start and get stabilised (depending on the air, fuel and engine temperatures before starting. The policy of leaving it idling if the time is less than 11 hours comes from taking the fuel cost of a cold start and adding in extra margin for wear and tear and the average rate of failures to start.
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asylumxl
Established Member
In the past, engines were preferably left idling when possible under the premise they may have issues starting back up. Large diesel engines do not like getting cold.
BantamMenace
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The same principle applies to the huge diesel engines in ships that are never turned over unless for serious deep maintainance
Hyphen
Member
A Cardiff-based Gerald driver tells me that whilst the WAG set lays over at Cardiff during the day, ATW not only finds it's cheaper to keep the hotplates in the kitchen car on all day than let them go cold and heat up again, that they provide power directly from the idling 67 as it's cheaper than directly feeding it power from the mains.
Nuts, if you ask me!
The prime mover inside a Class 67 is an EFI-equipped EMD 710, so that makes sense. Better to keep it idling than to waste tons of fuel, wear out the prime mover and run the risk of it not starting at all.
Keeping the HEP active to maintain the hotplate temperature also makes sense, if you're going to have it idle for a few hours it may as well do something useful which will reduce the HEP demand later on.
Keeping the HEP active to maintain the hotplate temperature also makes sense, if you're going to have it idle for a few hours it may as well do something useful which will reduce the HEP demand later on.
Hyphen
Member
Ah! So looking at the bigger picture, that actually does make sense.
Thank you for the explanation
Thank you for the explanation
Cliveblackpool
Member
Ships have the advantage that they circulate water from the central heating boiler to pre-warm the engine. Normally they open the gate valves a small amount to start with, and warm the engine gently over 4-6 hours or more. No glow-plugs! Ships (under 10,000 tons) normally turn their main engines off in the port where I used to work.
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Theres obviously a balance somewhere as otherwise we wouldn't have a company directive to shut the 66's down if they are not going to be used within the next 4 or 5 hours unless its cold.
Different operating companies and different prime movers (Class 66 is a 12-710, EMD-engined mainline locos in Australia are a 16-710) obviously make for different policies then.
Noise abatement is less of an issue in Australia, freight yards are generally not right in amongst residential or business districts and the silencing standards are among the toughest in the world.
There is also generally a shortage of mainline locomotives at the moment with not many spare to sit around for ages doing nothing like freight locos can do in Britain. Some operators have to spread their fleet so carefully that they only ever get to be properly shut down when they are on a maintenance rotation.
Class 92
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HSTs at Platform 0 in Kings Cross have to shut there engines down because of the low roof don't they?
PHILIPE
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I have been at Bristol Temple Meads on several occasions when HSTs or Voyagers are laying over and their engines not shut down resulting in their noise drowning out announcements.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
I thought it was electric only? Even with the new engines the sound and fumes of an HST powering out of 0 would be "interesting". Especially to the people in the offices directly above.
carriageline
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Yep, electrics only in Platform 0! I believe there is also a sign on the approach to reinforce that!
I read somewhere on here that apparently passenger trains have to shut their engines down if not being used in over 20 minutes but I always see Voyagers at Bristol TM on platform 3 waiting for around 50 minutes after terminating at 10 past the hour on a service from Manchester and waiting to form the next service on the hour.
ash39
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Definitely HST's can use platform 0 at Kings Cross. On my last visit to the capital I had a HST both ways, both used platform 0! Can't be too strictly enforced.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Sectional appendix says electric trains only, but I am certain I read that HSTs were now permitted in platform zero if the southern power car was switched off.
Ah about as accurate as the Beano and Dandy, I struggle to understand why firms still issue this thing, it is dire!
SWT have done their own (accurate) route maps and even supply other TOCs and FOCs that use their area.
dannyandy
Member
I heard that back in BR days engines were left running over christmas so that they didnt have trouble starting them again
(from an ex BR guard)
(from an ex BR guard)
As much as the Sectional Appendix is often useless, it usually helps if we're all working from the same information - perhaps not such an issue with the maps, but more for the local instructions and so on! Are you expected to update this document from the quarterly S.A. amendments, or are they reissued?
I have a feeling maybe St Pancras may be similar, where the PC under the low canopy is left off until it is clear of the station, with only one PC giving motive power out of the station until such point?
That sounds reasonable then! The TOC route maps that I've seen (which might carry a similar logo!) suggest that they don't replace the S.A. and should only be read in conjunction with it (or words to that effect). The local instructions are all there though (not sure about the contents of some of the other tables though).
I'll check the sectional appendix later for any specific instructions, but they usually start the rear power car 5 or 10 minutes before departure - and can't do so (unless I'm mistaken) from anywhere other than the rear power car!
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