Chiltern Vs. London Midland from Birmingham to London

ryansimmons323 · 15 Jan 2014

I just wanted to ask what people's experiences are in relation to Chiltern Railways services from Birmingham to London compared to London Midland.

Perhaps in the Easter break or in the summer, I'm looking to take my family on a short break to London, as we have been doing the last couple of years.

On our previous journeys we've always used London Midland from New Street to Euston on the 350s. I and we hate them. The service is slow, the 350/2s are more cramped than 323s on short commuter routes and the return journey is hell with all the commuters cramming in for stops between Euston and Northampton. It really isn't a great experience for a family with children on what is a somewhat long journey.

Now I know this should be expected on any trains from London if you travel out at the times we do (around 17.30 - 18.30). However, I was wondering, is Chiltern any better and worth the little extra money?

Do their services get crowded easily or should I be able to get a somewhat better experience?

We're looking to leave Birmingham at around 9am and return from London at around 5-6.30pm.

Oh, and we might just have to use Chiltern considering what's going on with the WCML during Easter and summer this year.

Thanks for your help.

RailUK Forums

anthony263 · 15 Jan 2014

The services operated by class 168's can get busy so best bet might be to look at which Chiltern services are operated by loco hauled stock.

Certainly based on my experience Chiltern is worth the extra money especially in light of what you have said about the class 350/2's dont get me wrong he 350/1's are lovely to travel on.

MK Tom · 15 Jan 2014

Chiltern is well worth the extra - the journey time alone justifies it. That said, you can cut your LM journey time by changing onto the ex-Crewe service at Rugby.

You could probably get cheaper Virgin fares if you booked in advance.

Tetchytyke · 15 Jan 2014

Coming out of London weekdays, the 1647, 1715 and 1815 are Mainline Silver- coaching stock and catering.

Chiltern is worth the extra money off-peak. The trains can get busy between London and Bicester, especially on Saturdays, but if you arrive in plenty of time you shouldn't have a problem getting a seat (seats are not reservable, if you turn up two minutes before departure you'll be standing to Bicester). Even on the Clubman trains there are plenty of tables, and free wifi. I like using Chiltern, generally speaking, just be aware of the hordes of Chinese students heading to Bicester.

Off peak the price difference between Chiltern and London Midland is negligible, but the Chiltern adult anytime return fare is £26 more than the London Midland ticket.

For all the trains, look at advance tickets. Virgin advance tickets, especially off peak, can be quite reasonable.

DeparturesBeck · 15 Jan 2014

For the loco-hauled Chiltern services, look for 'MS' (Mainline Silver) in the trains heading in the timetable. There aren't any of these services at the time you plan to travel down, so maybe board at Snow Hill instead if your train originates there. For the return there are services leaving Marylebone at 16:47, 17:15 and 18:15.

Timetables at: http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/tickets-and-times/download-our-timetable

ryansimmons323 · 15 Jan 2014

Thank you for all your great replies and advice. It seems we will most probably use Chiltern now.

Thanks again.

Qwerty133 · 15 Jan 2014

I expect Chiltern services to be packed during the WCML blockade this summer, as they will be catering for most of Virgin and London Midland passengers from Birmingham as well as their own.
This is one of the few times I think cheaper tickets for travelling by slower routes/ TOCs should be temporarily suspended to try and reduce loadings as much as possible, so people who NEED to travel will be able to get on their services easier.

dk1 · 15 Jan 2014

Qwerty133 said:
I expect Chiltern services to be packed during the WCML blockade this summer, as they will be catering for most of Virgin and London Midland passengers from Birmingham as well as their own.
This is one of the few times I think cheaper tickets for travelling by slower routes/ TOCs should be temporarily suspended to try and reduce loadings as much as possible, so people who NEED to travel will be able to get on their services easier.

Network Rail are having second thoughts about the August complete blockade.

Muzer · 15 Jan 2014

DeparturesBeck said:
For the loco-hauled Chiltern services, look for 'MS' (Mainline Silver) in the trains heading in the timetable. There aren't any of these services at the time you plan to travel down, so maybe board at Snow Hill instead if your train originates there. For the return there are services leaving Marylebone at 16:47, 17:15 and 18:15.

Timetables at: http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/tickets-and-times/download-our-timetable

There's also the 17:50 - not a Silver train, but is loco-hauled with the old InterCity layout, so rather comfortable.

Carlisle · 16 Jan 2014

Arctic Troll said:
Coming out of London weekdays, the 1647, 1715 and 1815 are Mainline Silver- coaching stock and catering.

Chiltern is worth the extra money off-peak. The trains can get busy between London and Bicester, especially on Saturdays, but if you arrive in plenty of time you shouldn't have a problem getting a seat (seats are not reservable, if you turn up two minutes before departure you'll be standing to Bicester). Even on the Clubman trains there are plenty of tables, and free wifi. I like using Chiltern, generally speaking, just be aware of the hordes of Chinese students heading to Bicester.

Off peak the price difference between Chiltern and London Midland is negligible, but the Chiltern adult anytime return fare is £26 more than the London Midland ticket.

For all the trains, look at advance tickets. Virgin advance tickets, especially off peak, can be quite reasonable.

What's especially attractive at Bicester for Chinese students

Mojo · 16 Jan 2014

Carlisle said:
What's especially attractive at Bicester for Chinese students

Bicester Village Outlet shopping. Not just students though!

Carlisle · 16 Jan 2014

Mojo said:
Bicester Village Outlet shopping. Not just students though!

Thanks for the info I had not been there

Cherry_Picker · 16 Jan 2014

It's so popular with Chinese and Arab tourists that not only does Bicester have official station signage in Mandarin and Arabic, the local taxi firm based on the station have Mandarin and Arabic signs in their windows.

Conclusion: Bicester Village spends a fortune on advertising overseas.

Railcar B · 16 Jan 2014

Muzer said:
There's also the 17:50 - not a Silver train, but is loco-hauled with the old InterCity layout, so rather comfortable.

The 17.50 only goes to Banbury, so you'd have to change there to go on to Birmingham, which might not be convenient for you. The 17.50 is really a limited stop commuter train.

HowardGWR · 16 Jan 2014

Cherry_Picker said:
It's so popular with Chinese and Arab tourists that not only does Bicester have official station signage in Mandarin and Arabic, the local taxi firm based on the station have Mandarin and Arabic signs in their windows.

Conclusion: Bicester Village spends a fortune on advertising overseas.

Anyone ever been there? Going to these OOT places for fashion would seem to be a contradiction of what it's all about IMO. But then what do I know?

Would these Asian clients not be buying what they could have bought back at home cheaper and probably made there anyway?

Toad · 16 Jan 2014

Going to London from Birmingham by London Midland is a very, very long painful experience. Horrible !!

You can get to New York quicker from Birmingham !!!

No brainier, Chiltern all the way. Don't spoil ya day out by going with 'that green crowd'

bILLOO · 16 Jan 2014

HowardGWR said:
Anyone ever been there? Going to these OOT places for fashion would seem to be a contradiction of what it's all about IMO. But then what do I know?

Would these Asian clients not be buying what they could have bought back at home cheaper and probably made there anyway?

I've been and there was coaches and coaches of Chinese people turning up minutes apart.

JB_B · 16 Jan 2014

HowardGWR said:
Anyone ever been there? Going to these OOT places for fashion would seem to be a contradiction of what it's all about IMO. But then what do I know?

Would these Asian clients not be buying what they could have bought back at home cheaper and probably made there anyway?

The Oxford - Bicester Town service also seems to attract a lot of custom heading for Bicester Village (I know because I followed the crowds when I got off the train). As far as I can see (it's not really my thing) it's not qualitatively different from other similar collections of outlet shops but it is quite big and obviously the marketing people are doing something right.

It will be interesting to see how the buses cope when they take over from trains next month.

Tetchytyke · 16 Jan 2014

Bicester Village is very heavily marketed in China and the Middle East, and attracts coachloads of tourists and students from these areas. Designer goods are cheaper in the UK than they are abroad- we don't charge VAT to tourists- and Bicester discounts them further.

They are insanely popular, both with tourists and retailers. Retailers have to sign exclusivity agreements to be allowed to open shops there.

bb21 · 16 Jan 2014

Arctic Troll said:
Bicester Village is very heavily marketed in China and the Middle East, and attracts coachloads of tourists and students from these areas. Designer goods are cheaper in the UK than they are abroad- we don't charge VAT to tourists- and Bicester discounts them further.

They are insanely popular, both with tourists and retailers. Retailers have to sign exclusivity agreements to be allowed to open shops there.

Exactly. Add all this to the fact that luxury goods in countries like China are taxed at insane rates, it really is a no-brainer for anyone who is here temporarily to stock up.

JB_B · 16 Jan 2014

Is the Village big enough to be a significant revenue driver for Chiltern ? I've seen large groups of shoppers arriving back at Marylebone and I see that Town station footfall increased 4-fold from 6/7 to 11/12 - to 200K. ( I know that some service improvements also happened during this period.)

Cherry_Picker · 16 Jan 2014

JB_B said:
Is the Village big enough to be a significant revenue driver for Chiltern ? I've seen large groups of shoppers arriving back at Marylebone and I see that Town station footfall increased 4-fold from 6/7 to 11/12 - to 200K. ( I know that some service improvements also happened during this period.)

It definitely is. London commuters are definitely the bread and butter from Bicester North, but pretty much every off peak train from about 10am onwards seems to carry scores of people to Bicester North for shopping at the Village. I'm speculating of course, but it wouldn't surprise me if we were talking thousands of tickets a week just on Chinese and Arab shoppers.

Mikey C · 17 Jan 2014

Back home in China, many of the designer goods are counterfeit, whereas by buying them in the West, the shoppers know they are getting the genuine article (even if it is actually made in China!)
Bicester Town station is much more convenient than Bicester North for the Village, I imagine that when the Oxford service starts, most people will use this to go to the Village, rather than taking the shuttle bus from North station

Clip · 17 Jan 2014

Cherry_Picker said:
It definitely is. London commuters are definitely the bread and butter from Bicester North, but pretty much every off peak train from about 10am onwards seems to carry scores of people to Bicester North for shopping at the Village. I'm speculating of course, but it wouldn't surprise me if we were talking thousands of tickets a week just on Chinese and Arab shoppers.

You're not, they do sell bucket loads of them.

Tetchytyke · 17 Jan 2014

It's a huge off peak money spinner for Chiltern. The trains are full and standing on Saturday mornings in particular, and at £27.50 a pop (the fare is the same to Bicester as it is to Birmingham) they must be raking it in.

Bicester Village was the only reason Chiltern had a Boxing Day service.

Urban Gateline · 17 Jan 2014

Not many people have commented on the LM route from London to Birmingham. I had to use it to get to my training course for a week (Mon to Fri). I can confirm it's dreary...2h26m to get from EUS to BHM as I had to take an early train to get into BHM on time. It feels painful stopping at nearly every station on the route!

I agree with the poster who said 350's are not comfortable! The legroom is very cramped if you sit in airline seats, and if you're lucky enough to get table seats then most likely people will sit next to and opposite you so you won't be able to stretch out for long!

Muzer · 17 Jan 2014

Railcar B said:
The 17.50 only goes to Banbury, so you'd have to change there to go on to Birmingham, which might not be convenient for you. The 17.50 is really a limited stop commuter train.

Ah, yes - I knew there must have been a reason it wasn't mentioned! Forgot the OP was going to Birmingham...

67018 · 17 Jan 2014

Just another quick note for the OP - the 1715 and 1815 from Marylebone are not only loco hauled but also fast to Banbury, so they avoid getting rammed with Bicester commuters. Avoid the 1747, you have to get there 10 minutes in advance to be sure of a seat.

You can also beat the rush by checking the platform number on the Chilterns or NR app - the platform usually appears there before it goes on the board at the station.

Cherry_Picker · 17 Jan 2014

The 17:15 is first stop Leamington Spa. It's one of very few passenger trains which pass through Banbury without stopping.

67018 · 17 Jan 2014

Oops, my mistake, I don't pay it much attention other than knowing it's on my 'don't catch that one' list!

Chiltern Vs. London Midland from Birmingham to London

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