Worst route(s) in UK for anti-social behaviour

tsr · 28 Feb 2015

Antman said:
That's generally been my experience too, in fact I've found some of the drunken 'hooray Henry' brigade returning from Lingfield races far worse.

With regards to Lingfield, passengers related to the racecourse seem not to necessarily be in any way violent or extremely disruptive when drunk, but can just end up doing/saying things in pretty poor taste, and loudly at that. There were a few folks from an event there using the trains this evening, however, and that all seemed to generally be fine, with just a couple of people chancing fares and that was about it. So it varies!

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Ash Bridge · 28 Feb 2015

NLC1072 said:
I went to Sheerness once... didn't go back... ever.

Just did a Google street view on the road that runs beside Sheerness Station, the first image to load was of an old red Vauxhall/Opel Vectra stopped at traffic lights with the driver giving the camera car the finger, all the visible occupants of the car looked like participants of the Jeremy Kyle Show. Don't think I will bother booking a holiday in that location!!

muz379 · 1 Mar 2015

Howardh said:
I travel back from Manchester to Bolton on Saturday nights, and I've very rarely, if ever, seen any trouble. My journeys are mostly from Oxford Road (last train/s) or the 0030 bus replacement from Picc last week where there was an orderly queue, everyone had their ticket in their hand - not that anyone asked to see - and it was like a library on board (oh, and just as cold).

No idea what it's like coming back from Victoria, which would probably take the Deansgate/Printworks drinkers home after 11; maybe the Oxford Road trains just have the theatre/cinema goers, rockers from Oxford Road and anyone from the Gay Village. Clearly a better class of passenger.......

*ducks*

Mind you, probably a guard on here will give the opposite and say I just haven't been on the right/wrong trains...

usually my experience as a guard is that coming out of Manchester vic on the last ones on a fri sat night isnt as bad as one might be expecting because loads of people stay out drinking a lot later than the last trains or get so drunk they never make the last train .

TOCDriver · 1 Mar 2015

A very open ended question and impossible to answer

crehld · 1 Mar 2015

Having been mugged twice on the route, Southampton to Portsmouth has to be in with a shout.

craigybagel · 1 Mar 2015

sd0733 said:
Spot on, its the people from these places who have had the day in Liverpool. Nothing to do with Liverpool itself. it just happens to be the unfortunate recipient of these clowns to get hammered in.

Definitely don't agree about Birmingham-Wolves though, its alright down there even though do see a few dubious characters.

Agree with you. We work a late night train over that line and on Monday to Friday its fine. It only normally gets lively on a Saturday when.....

Proud Salopian said:
Here in Shropshire the main trouble spots seem to be (and this will come as no surprise) in Telford, particularly at Wellington - or at least that's how it was a few years' ago (it may have improved..? ..doubtful.) The LM stopping service (Wolves-Shrews) therefore can have a few utter divs (usually trying to evade paying their fare). Away from the national network, the Cambrian heritage railway/centre in Oswestry has from time to time suffered from the actions of utter knobs (sadly, locals) smashing stuff up etc. Down here in the rural south Craven Arms is probably the worst, station-wise, for general loutish behaviour (ie using the station shelters to hang out, running from platform to platform over the tracks, etc). Though at least there is now CCTV at Church Stretton and Craven Arms (though whether it actually stops much or merely records crime..) :roll:

......it runs via Telford! Its another trip you get off spare a lot because everyone books it off if they can.

And yes, of the other stations in Shropshire CRV is probably the most lively - tied with Leominster for giving the most grief on the marches line. But neither are a patch on Telford!

Class377 said:
I'm always interested to read members on here criticising football fans and, expectedly, this thread has once again thrown up people claiming some trains are bad and should be avoided just because they carry fans!

I travel frequently to home and away games by train and I've never seen any trouble on these services - indeed, after the game, most fans just sit in their groups and may sing a few songs and have a pint or two but they're generally harmless unless you go up to them and provoke them.

Take it from staff who deal with them every week: they CAN be a problem. Some teams give you more hassle than than others (working into Manchester City fans seem to be easier than United fans for example), and their behaviour is sometimes dependant on how well their team performed that day, but they are definitely a problem.

dk1 · 2 Mar 2015

scott118 said:
Norwich to Lowestoft, 15.50, used to bring amusement to some. Even the locals knew to avoid, the St.Trinian's express.

I notice they are so much better now. For a while around 2005 guards where reporting the little sh*ts directly to the head teacher at Notre Dam.

jamesst · 2 Mar 2015

I'll also add any train through Birkenhead at any time to my earlier answer!!

Mark62 · 2 Mar 2015

The behaviour 21.18 newcastle to Carlisle train(Saturday) Is often quite appalling. Two weekends ago there were so many drunken children at central station that four policeman had to travel to stop them from rioting on board the train. I had never encountered anything like it in my life. I will say that the police were brilliant. What a waste of police resources having to man a local passenger train. Behaviour has been better on that train since but children are so drunk that incidents can kick off without warning. This train is now designated a dry train. Last week a middle aged man next to me gleefully pulled out a bottle of strong cider after we pulled out of Central. I get out at Hexham and most of the yobs carry on the stations down the line. It's only a matter of time before this train gets pulled from the schedule. On Fridays the 22.35 to hexham runs without problem, it's always the Saturday drunks that cause trouble.

sprinterguy · 2 Mar 2015

collector said:
Birmingham-Wolverhampton is my vote anyway!

Can't fathom out why you'd think that: I travel that route regularly, on late night trains as often as not, and have never encountered any sort of trouble en route.

Scotrail84 · 2 Mar 2015

dk1 said:
I notice they are so much better now. For a while around 2005 guards where reporting the little sh*ts directly to the head teacher at Notre Dam.

Quite right. Behaviour of school kids on trans has been questioned in various parts of the uk.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Mark62 said:
The behaviour 21.18 newcastle to Carlisle train(Saturday) Is often quite appalling. Two weekends ago there were so many drunken children at central station that four policeman had to travel to stop them from rioting on board the train. I had never encountered anything like it in my life. I will say that the police were brilliant. What a waste of police resources having to man a local passenger train. Behaviour has been better on that train since but children are so drunk that incidents can kick off without warning. This train is now designated a dry train. Last week a middle aged man next to me gleefully pulled out a bottle of strong cider after we pulled out of Central. I get out at Hexham and most of the yobs carry on the stations down the line. It's only a matter of time before this train gets pulled from the schedule. On Fridays the 22.35 to hexham runs without problem, it's always the Saturday drunks that cause trouble.

They shouldn't be allowed to travel. Up here people who are heavily under the influence of alcohol after 9pm run the risk of being refused travel at the barriers by police and staff.

During the festive period there is a heavy staff presence from the managers side who stop people travelling to try to prevent anti social behaviour on trains and at stations.

CheekyBandit · 2 Mar 2015

Class377 said:
I travel frequently to home and away games by train and I've never seen any trouble on these services - indeed, after the game, most fans just sit in their groups and may sing a few songs and have a pint or two but they're generally harmless unless you go up to them and provoke them.

I travelled on the 1958 St Pancras - Leeds (as far as Sheffield) this Saturday and a small group of drunk Derby fans were standing in a vestibule between coaches singing at the top of their voices for most of their journey - which I found to be annoying after a while. When I spotted the Train Manager when the train was at Leicester I mentioned to her Byelaw 7 (1) having looked it up on this site (http://*******/1swkop0) before. Soon after departure from Leicester I got this lecture from her about quoting laws that don't exist and if everyone who sang got nicked they would arrest everyone who goes to church on Sundays. Her idea was to let such groups sing themselves out and couldn't do anything unless they swore. I also told her that they swore given quite a few of the lyrics they sang were 'Forest *******s', 'We don't give a ****' and 'Leicester is a ****hole'. What I have typed in seems to have been adjusted by this site's profanity filter which makes it swearing.

Excuse me but aren't these the same non-existent byelaws that make it illegal to smoke on a lot of open railway station platforms (as the many station announcements I have heard claim)?

Deerfold · 2 Mar 2015

Scotrail84 said:
They shouldn't be allowed to travel. Up here people who are heavily under the influence of alcohol after 9pm run the risk of being refused travel at the barriers by police and staff.

And then the little darlings' parents complain that vulnerable children have been abandoned by the train company?

DarloRich · 2 Mar 2015

I would be interested to know in which newspaper the article based upon all this free research will appear.

In other news we had some graffiti on the Marston Vale line this week - shocking!

GodAtum · 2 Mar 2015

I came across unrulely kids on the Maidenhead - Paddington service around 4-5pm.
The 1800 Guildford - Waterloo always has 1st class fare dodgers.
Evening trains from Clapham - East Croydon you have to watchful and not get trapped by train robbers.

Class377 · 2 Mar 2015

CheekyBandit said:
I travelled on the 1958 St Pancras - Leeds (as far as Sheffield) this Saturday and a small group of drunk Derby fans were standing in a vestibule between coaches singing at the top of their voices for most of their journey - which I found to be annoying after a while. When I spotted the Train Manager when the train was at Leicester I mentioned to her Byelaw 7 (1) having looked it up on this site (http://*******/1swkop0) before. Soon after departure from Leicester I got this lecture from her about quoting laws that don't exist and if everyone who sang got nicked they would arrest everyone who goes to church on Sundays. Her idea was to let such groups sing themselves out and couldn't do anything unless they swore. I also told her that they swore given quite a few of the lyrics they sang were 'Forest *******s', 'We don't give a ****' and 'Leicester is a ****hole'. What I have typed in seems to have been adjusted by this site's profanity filter which makes it swearing.

Excuse me but aren't these the same non-existent byelaws that make it illegal to smoke on a lot of open railway station platforms (as the many station announcements I have heard claim)?

Were they in the quiet carriage? If not, why are they not allowed to make noise?

Deerfold · 2 Mar 2015

Class377 said:
Were they in the quiet carriage? If not, why are they not allowed to make noise?

There's a difference being allowed to make a noise and singing offensive songs at the top of your voice.

DeeGee · 3 Mar 2015

I got a Transpennine train back from Piccadilly on a Saturday evening. Full to the rafters with Manchester United fans, it was - because Manchester United fans, of course, don't live in Manchester.

They were singing loudly and there was a bit of banter with some Sheffield United fans who were travelling to Sheffield. It was all pretty good natured and I was watching, as I used to watch a bit of football myself, until one of the United fans who had been swaggering about swigging wine from a bottle took umbrage at my watching and "offered me out". Thankfully his mates restrained him, sat me down and offered me a can as a peace offering!

That was quite hairy. Often travel that way and never normally experience it because it is so rare that Manchester United play at 3pm on a Saturday.

Camden · 3 Mar 2015

Class377 said:
Were they in the quiet carriage? If not, why are they not allowed to make noise?

The quiet carriage is for people who don't want to be bothered by mobile phones and personal stereos, it doesn't make the rest of the train any yob's free-for-all.

The toleration of bad behaviour from passengers can only result in an increase of assaults all round, including on staff, as the yobs feel they can get away with bad behaviour if it is ignored. If you're rowdy and/or drunk you should not be on public transport. Such behaviour is intimidating to most people.

muz379 · 3 Mar 2015

Camden said:
The quiet carriage is for people who don't want to be bothered by mobile phones and personal stereos, it doesn't make the rest of the train any yob's free-for-all.

The toleration of bad behaviour from passengers can only result in an increase of assaults all round, including on staff, as the yobs feel they can get away with bad behaviour if it is ignored. If you're rowdy and/or drunk you should not be on public transport. Such behaviour is intimidating to most people.

It really depends on what you mean by rowdy though . A group of lads who have had a few jars and been to watch a match sitting round a table having a laugh but not doing or saying anything against anybody else on the train might be perceived by some as rowdy but I certainly wouldn't find the situation intimidating .Yes they might be a bit louder than if it where a table consisting of a family or a table full of old dears off to a W.I meeting . But its public transport. If you dont like the fact that you might have a share a carriage with people who are a bit louder then maybe public transportation isn't for you .

Same with football fans . As a guard ive worked football trains that have been a pleasure to work , the fans singing team songs etc .I certainly wasn't intimidated as a guard and whilst it was a bit loud like I said its public transport .

Sometimes as a guard people will complain to you about the noise coming from other passengers . Unfortunately unless they are saying something unacceptable ie racism , sexism homophobia or threatening other passengers or if they are swearing a lot in a carriage full of young kids all I can really do is offer to find the offended party another seat in another carriage .

Oswyntail · 3 Mar 2015

muz379 said:
... A group of lads [ie grown men] who have had a few jars [ie who have had a few alcoholic drinks] and been to watch a match sitting round a table having a laugh [ie shouting at each other in the appreciation of "banter"] .....

I am always amused by the language used to describe the behaviour one finds in football crowds, always trying to soften the effect. In fact, a group of men who are being noisy and have been drinking is intimidating to most people. I am not suggesting they should be banned (though enforcement of the regulations on letting drunken people on trains would be a start) but that they should be expected to show the same consideration towards other people as they would on their regular journey home from work.

muz379 · 3 Mar 2015

Oswyntail said:
I am always amused by the language used to describe the behaviour one finds in football crowds, always trying to soften the effect. In fact, a group of men who are being noisy and have been drinking is intimidating to most people. I am not suggesting they should be banned (though enforcement of the regulations on letting drunken people on trains would be a start) but that they should be expected to show the same consideration towards other people as they would on their regular journey home from work.

Personally my thoughts are its public transport. If you dont like the fact that there might be noisy people on it then maybe its not the form of transportation for you . I mean should everyone on the train be subjected to listening to some baby scream at the top of its lungs whilst its parent makes every effort to placate it ? Or should they too be confined to being expected to show consideration to fellow travelers ?

Oswyntail · 3 Mar 2015

muz379 said:
Personally my thoughts are its public transport. If you dont like the fact that there might be noisy people on it then maybe its not the form of transportation for you . I mean should everyone on the train be subjected to listening to some baby scream at the top of its lungs whilst its parent makes every effort to placate it ? Or should they too be confined to being expected to show consideration to fellow travelers ?

A baby screaming does not yet have the ability to control its reactions - and neither do parents, most of the time (been there!). Are you suggesting that rowdies on trains are similarly incapable of self-control?

Antman · 3 Mar 2015

I was on an early evening train from Kings Lynn to London one Saturday recently and the train became packed with youngsters heading for a night out in Cambridge. I have to say though that they were all remarkably well behaved even offering their seats to other passengers. Anyway the train almost emptied at Cambridge and there was plenty room on the non stop run to Kings Cross.

Whether they were quite as well behaved on the way back though I wouldn't know.

muz379 · 3 Mar 2015

Oswyntail said:
A baby screaming does not yet have the ability to control its reactions - and neither do parents, most of the time (been there!). Are you suggesting that rowdies on trains are similarly incapable of self-control?

Not implying that was merely gauging what you think . They may well be capable of self control and babies incapable . Put their parents are capable of not taking them on public transport so as to not subject anyone else on the train to their noise .

Besides the effect is still the same other people in the carriage might still have to listen to noise they dont want to .

Personally as I said earlier it does not bother me as I accept when I plan to travel on any form of public transport I will be subjected to other people and they may be noiser or rowdier or otherwise different to how I would prefer .

GodAtum · 3 Mar 2015

muz379 said:
Personally my thoughts are its public transport. If you dont like the fact that there might be noisy people on it then maybe its not the form of transportation for you . I mean should everyone on the train be subjected to listening to some baby scream at the top of its lungs whilst its parent makes every effort to placate it ? Or should they too be confined to being expected to show consideration to fellow travelers ?

I try to give people the benefit of the doubt if they are talking to loudly or swearing. On a short journey I dont mind but I'm not going to put up with it for 3 hours so I move if I can.

DeeGee · 3 Mar 2015

muz379 said:
Not implying that was merely gauging what you think . They may well be capable of self control and babies incapable . Put their parents are capable of not taking them on public transport so as to not subject anyone else on the train to their noise .

It's not that simple, though, is it?

My son aged three really wanted to go on the London Eye. He spoke about it for ages. We discussed what it would be like, what to expect. He'd been on a cliff railway and was fine, so we figured he wasn't afraid of heights. There was no reason to suspect he'd respond in any way other than positively.

Queuing up he was fine, very keen to get on the "ride", quite impatient.

Then we got to the front of the queue. We got on. The doors closed...

I was mortified, but there was nothing I could do. I felt sorry for the other passengers. But what options did I have. A screaming son, and me and my wife making our best attempts to soothe him. For a whole London Eye flight.

If it's the first time doing something with a child you have no idea how they will respond. Or should all children be banned from the railways until they are capable of making and paying for their own journeys- then they can be entirely responsible for their actions?

muz379 · 3 Mar 2015

GodAtum said:
I try to give people the benefit of the doubt if they are talking to loudly or swearing. On a short journey I dont mind but I'm not going to put up with it for 3 hours so I move if I can.

once had to sit on a plane to Krakow for 3 hours with a load of lads going on a booze cruise laughing and larking about a few rows back . Needless to say it wasn't a comfortable experience . But when I booked the flights i knew there was a possibility it could happen .
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

DeeGee said:
If it's the first time doing something with a child you have no idea how they will respond. Or should all children be banned from the railways until they are capable of making and paying for their own journeys- then they can be entirely responsible for their actions?

I personally am not bothered as I have said numerous times I accept that when I go on public transport , there could be noisy rowdy passengers , crying babies or drunk people

I was merely trying to see what someone else thinks about the different sources of noise on public transport

bAzTNM · 23 Mar 2015

Don't work in the industry, but I can't imagine the Saturday trains between Ayr and Glasgow Central are all sweetness and light.

Regarding the first topic posts, the Balloch to Queen Street route is a nightmare even on a weekday. Bit between Balloch and Dumbarton East is where the trouble happens, if any.

jamesst · 23 Mar 2015

Oswyntail said:
I am always amused by the language used to describe the behaviour one finds in football crowds, always trying to soften the effect. In fact, a group of men who are being noisy and have been drinking is intimidating to most people. I am not suggesting they should be banned (though enforcement of the regulations on letting drunken people on trains would be a start) but that they should be expected to show the same consideration towards other people as they would on their regular journey home from work.

I love the way you appear to want staff to single handedly take on people like this! I can tell you from past experience staff on the train get no backing from other passengers,indeed they often also turn against the staff. Btp are non existent and you can actually get in troulble for delaying the train!!
Sometimes for personal safety it's better to let football fans,the loud brigade just sing themselves out...

Worst route(s) in UK for anti-social behaviour

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