Worst route(s) in UK for anti-social behaviour

[First class]

I’m not aware of there being any persistent problems coming out of Birmingham on the Liverpool trains. The problem (and this is not intended to denigrate the folk of Merseyside) is at the Liverpool end of the route, which is why “special measures” have had to be introduced on the last Liverpool to Birmingham/Crewe trains on a Friday/Saturday night, as sd0733 has pointed out on the first page of this thread.

It's actually the people from Crewe, Winsford/Hartford and Runcorn going into Liverpool, (relatively sober), getting smashed and then on their way home, causing the problems!

So it's nothing to do with anyone from Merseyside at all, actually!

Birmingham-Wolverhampton is my vote anyway!

 

[Mutant Lemming]

There should probably be two categories for worse route as sometimes worse trains to travel on and worse stations to wait at can be on quite different routes.

 

[sd0733]

I’m not aware of there being any persistent problems coming out of Birmingham on the Liverpool trains. The problem (and this is not intended to denigrate the folk of Merseyside) is at the Liverpool end of the route, which is why “special measures” have had to be introduced on the last Liverpool to Birmingham/Crewe trains on a Friday/Saturday night, as sd0733 has pointed out on the first page of this thread.

You're correct, we work trains out of New Street right up until the 23:09 departure and that's an all stations stopper and have never ever had any real issues on them even on a Friday or Saturday night nor have I ever heard anyone at the depot complain about them. Last Liverpool Saturday night though, annual leave day for the majority.

 

[BurtonM]

I live in Stalybridge.
That BBC series on the railway a couple of years ago did a fairly substantial piece on the Ale Trail, it's terrible. I avoid Northern services altogether on the weekend - always overcrowded, but fairly civil - besides I often have a bike with me and there's just no space for it.
IIRC the pubs on the Ale Trail were refusing to sell lager, wine etc in an attempt to get rid of the drunks, but I don't know how that's going, or if it's still going on.
I often travel between Manchester and Stalybridge at any and all times of day (admittedly I avoid Victoria if possible), and I've never seen anything unruly - TPE services out of Picc are quiet towards the end of service. I've even seen the guard do a ticket check on the 2321 to York!
The most instances of anti-social behaviour, in my experience, are on northbound XC services between the general Staffordshire area and Manchester, in the mid-afternoon - lately I've seen some early-teenage lads (the spoilt brat sort mentioned further up) get on in Stoke, move other passengers' bags, and use them in an attempt to hide in the Voyager's large luggage rack by the bike storage for a free ride to Manchester, and a supposedly claustrophobic tattooed man start shouting at, and threatening another passenger in a group of five for attempting to sit next to him.
I suppose I'm just in the wrong places at the wrong times...

 

[sd0733]

It's actually the people from Crewe, Winsford/Hartford and Runcorn going into Liverpool, (relatively sober), getting smashed and then on their way home, causing the problems!

So it's nothing to do with anyone from Merseyside at all, actually!

Birmingham-Wolverhampton is my vote anyway!

Spot on, its the people from these places who have had the day in Liverpool. Nothing to do with Liverpool itself. it just happens to be the unfortunate recipient of these clowns to get hammered in.

Definitely don't agree about Birmingham-Wolves though, its alright down there even though do see a few dubious characters.

 

[yorkie]

I've heard that there are some problems on trains from York to the North East on Saturday evenings. The last few times I have passed through York station around this time I have witnessed revenue staff at the main entrance, although not at the car park or NRM entrance, which I am lead to believe is a permanent arrangement at this time of the week.

Indeed, forum member wensley can often be spotted participating in the ticket inspections at York.

They only need to check the main entrance as the individuals concerned lack the required intelligence to use any of the other entrances

Some of them don't allow you to alight from trains before they barge on. Fortunately I was once armed with my bike, and was prepared for this, so got plenty of force behind it so that when one particularly obnoxious individual tried to barge past the handlebars, he would have regretted it.

Many Guards on ex-Manchester trains tend to forewarn people before York, and advise that through passengers sit in a particular part of the train if remaining on board after York, and some offer complementary 1st class upgrades to passengers where possible.

I believe trains going to Thornaby/Eaglescliffe are the worst, and people who have the misfortune to be going to places like Middlesbrough inform me Thornaby is where most of the louts get off. No wonder Yarm voted to be part of Yorkshire and distance themselves from the yobs & slobs the other side of the river

 

[MP33]

Another category.

For people who should be there. The worst route(s) for 1st class or other premium service anti-social behaviour.

I have heard that some services taking people away from major horse race meetings have a reputation in the posh seats.

 

[vicbury]

Where are the problems on the Weymouth/Bristol train?

Given it leaves Weymouth at 20:21, the problems must be further along the line? Or is it summer daytrippers returning home?

My experience the summer before last was pretty awful. In the main it was people who had spent all day getting drunk in Weymouth and were travelling back to Yeovil and Frome.

BTP were on the platform rather half-heartedly 'screening' passengers for alcohol. Funnily enough all the drunks on the train had plenty of alcohol. BTP then decided to follow the train in the comfort of their police cars / vans from station to station rather than travelling with us.

There were fights, shouting and yelling, people being sick, drunks trying to pick fights with the rest of us who just wanted to travel home. It put my friends and I off so much that we've never returned to Weymouth.

I've travelled on a lot of night trains and buses and I've never ever experienced anything like it. In my opinion FGW and BTP did not want to deal with the problem and should be ashamed at their response.

There are dry trains on some of Arriva's Valley lines north of Pontypridd.

The last Saturday evening train from Weymouth to Bristol is a dry train and passengers are not even permitted to carry sealed alcohol on board IIRC.

I've read on here before that Cosham is omitted in the evening from Portsmouth - Cardiff services. Not sure if this is due to anti-social behaviour though.

The last train of the night from Bristol to Frome on a Saturday is an experience. It has two guards (that don't usually leave the back cab other than to do the doors at Avoncliff) and regular patrols by the BTP. Usually runs as 4 coaches and every time I've been on it, it's been full of groups of drunk people returning from nights out in Bristol and Bath to towns in Somerset and Wiltshire. People running up and down the carriage screaming, jumping over seats, arguing... My friend a few years ago said she even saw someone smoking in the carriage once!

I've never understood why people from the Wiltshire and Somerset towns feel the need to act up and cause trouble when they are out in the 'big cities' of Bath and Bristol. They seem to arrive strutting around wanting to cause trouble. Bored of their own towns?

 

[Proud Salopian]

Here in Shropshire the main trouble spots seem to be (and this will come as no surprise) in Telford, particularly at Wellington - or at least that's how it was a few years' ago (it may have improved..? ..doubtful.) The LM stopping service (Wolves-Shrews) therefore can have a few utter divs (usually trying to evade paying their fare). Away from the national network, the Cambrian heritage railway/centre in Oswestry has from time to time suffered from the actions of utter knobs (sadly, locals) smashing stuff up etc. Down here in the rural south Craven Arms is probably the worst, station-wise, for general loutish behaviour (ie using the station shelters to hang out, running from platform to platform over the tracks, etc). Though at least there is now CCTV at Church Stretton and Craven Arms (though whether it actually stops much or merely records crime..) :roll:

 

[sheff1]

I believe trains going to Thornaby/Eaglescliffe are the worst, and people who have the misfortune to be going to places like Middlesbrough inform me Thornaby is where most of the louts get off. No wonder Yarm voted to be part of Yorkshire and distance themselves from the yobs & slobs the other side of the river

Thornaby is in Yorkshire

There is something about York which attracts the braindead though. The weekly outing by the Doncaster branch results in the 2150 back being a bit hectic on Saturday evenings. Not sure what those who miss it do to entertain themselves ?

I've never understood why people from the Wiltshire and Somerset towns feel the need to act up and cause trouble when they are out in the 'big cities' of Bath and Bristol. They seem to arrive strutting around wanting to cause trouble. Bored of their own towns?

Geographical equivalent of Little Man Syndrome ... Little Town Syndrome ?

 

[Antman]

Sittingbourne to Sheerness, indeed there are delays this evening due to disruptive passengers

 

[Class377]

I'm always interested to read members on here criticising football fans and, expectedly, this thread has once again thrown up people claiming some trains are bad and should be avoided just because they carry fans!

I travel frequently to home and away games by train and I've never seen any trouble on these services - indeed, after the game, most fans just sit in their groups and may sing a few songs and have a pint or two but they're generally harmless unless you go up to them and provoke them.

 

[NLC1072]

Sittingbourne to Sheerness, indeed there are delays this evening due to disruptive passengers

I went to Sheerness once... didn't go back... ever.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Some of the East Coast services from Aberdeen were horrendous. Filled with people off the rigs who hadn't seen drink in weeks. I think at least one of them is now a "dry train".

There was one service a few weeks ago on which the rioting passengers took over the buffet and helped thmselves while the staff retreated fearing for their safety. B T Police now travel on that service, the last of the day off Aberdeen arriving Edin at 9pm.

I've heard that there are some problems on trains from York to the North East on Saturday evenings. The last few times I have passed through York station around this time I have witnessed revenue staff at the main entrance, although not at the car park or NRM entrance, which I am lead to believe is a permanent arrangement at this time of the week.

This seems to be a seasonal trend. The drinkers from Newcastle seem to choose trips to York (and back, which is the problem!) on warmer, lighter summer evenings, and less so in the winter months.

 

[fowler9]

You're correct, we work trains out of New Street right up until the 23:09 departure and that's an all stations stopper and have never ever had any real issues on them even on a Friday or Saturday night nor have I ever heard anyone at the depot complain about them. Last Liverpool Saturday night though, annual leave day for the majority.

Sorry chaps, I was pretty sure there were no problems at the Birmingham end. I just wanted to avoid any confusion like someone on another thread who started on about scousers because of the special measures on the Liverpool - Birminghams. Speaking of which there was carnage on those services the Thursday before last after the darts at the Echo Arena. It was almost comforting to see it was the darts fans raising hell and not the fans from the Liverpool - Besiktas game given the slating some give football fans on here.
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I'm always interested to read members on here criticising football fans and, expectedly, this thread has once again thrown up people claiming some trains are bad and should be avoided just because they carry fans!

I travel frequently to home and away games by train and I've never seen any trouble on these services - indeed, after the game, most fans just sit in their groups and may sing a few songs and have a pint or two but they're generally harmless unless you go up to them and provoke them.

Totally agree. Some people are just intimidated by the numbers of them and the fact that some have had a drink. There is rarely trouble these days because the perpetrators would get banned.
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When I tried the Metrolink Airport line in December, there were 2 instances of objects being lobbed at the windows by unknown vandals near Sale Water Park causing the tram to be taken out of service and some holidaymakers enjoying the nearby housing estate platform for half an hour until service was resumed.

Is the Airport line still plagued by silly sods?

I was on the Airport route for the first time a few weeks ago and there was a high security presence. I heard one of the staff sayig it was because people had been lobbing stuff at the trams again.

 

[vicbury]

Geographical equivalent of Little Man Syndrome ... Little Town Syndrome ?

Must be!

I'm always interested to read members on here criticising football fans and, expectedly, this thread has once again thrown up people claiming some trains are bad and should be avoided just because they carry fans!

I travel frequently to home and away games by train and I've never seen any trouble on these services - indeed, after the game, most fans just sit in their groups and may sing a few songs and have a pint or two but they're generally harmless unless you go up to them and provoke them.

I've also never had any issues with football or rugby fans. Maybe issues are restricted to certain teams / areas?

 

[Deerfold]

Totally agree. Some people are just intimidated by the numbers of them and the fact that some have had a drink. There is rarely trouble these days because the perpetrators would get banned.

I've had some very unpleasant journeys with groups of football fans - but it's not every journey with groups of football fans.

I've caught a couple of trains where fights have broken out between Arsenal fans (to the point where I've got off the train at a mid point and delayed our journey by half an hour).

I've also nearly been prevented from boarding a train by large numbers of Huddersfield Town supporters who didn't seem to consider they were pushing my (then) 10 and 5 year old nephews out of their way as they boarded.

On the other hand I've seen many Leeds fans heading down on the trains from North of Skipton and you couldn't meet a politer bunch (though they too can get a little rowdy and excited).

(note: I'm not saying all Arsenal or Huddersfield Town fans are like this - or all Leeds fans).

 

[scott118]

I've just seen a video of a guy having a 5 knuckle shuffle on a train at Blackfriars so I'd say that was pretty anti social.

for any particular reason?

 

[fowler9]

I've had some very unpleasant journeys with groups of football fans - but it's not every journey with groups of football fans.

I've caught a couple of trains where fights have broken out between Arsenal fans (to the point where I've got off the train at a mid point and delayed our journey by half an hour).

I've also nearly been prevented from boarding a train by large numbers of Huddersfield Town supporters who didn't seem to consider they were pushing my (then) 10 and 5 year old nephews out of their way as they boarded.

On the other hand I've seen many Leeds fans heading down on the trains from North of Skipton and you couldn't meet a politer bunch (though they too can get a little rowdy and excited).

(note: I'm not saying all Arsenal or Huddersfield Town fans are like this - or all Leeds fans).

The thing is idiots are idiots no matter what they are in to. Drunk football fans on trains is an easy catch all and is for the most part just not true when it comes to agro. The worst I see in Merseyside is either when the Orange Lodge all head to Southport and get ratted or all the coke heads on Merseyrail going to and coming back from the Grand National race weekend. The most recent trouble causers I've seen were at the darts or random folk from Widnes and Warrington on the last Oxford Road train from Lime Street last night.

 

[CC 72100]

The most instances of anti-social behaviour, in my experience, are on northbound XC services between the general Staffordshire area and Manchester, in the mid-afternoon - lately I've seen some early-teenage lads (the spoilt brat sort mentioned further up) get on in Stoke, move other passengers' bags, and use them in an attempt to hide in the Voyager's large luggage rack by the bike storage for a free ride to Manchester, and a supposedly claustrophobic tattooed man start shouting at, and threatening another passenger in a group of five for attempting to sit next to him.
I suppose I'm just in the wrong places at the wrong times...

Virgin's open stations policy doesn't exactly help that situation. Slightly related, the stations between Manchester and Wolverhampton that XC serve (but are managed by Virgin) don't half look grim and stuck in the past.

On my train back from Manchester on the other evening two younger people (probably my age or little younger) seemed to having taken refuge under the big luggage rack, wonder if they were also trying to avoid detection?

 

[Bishopstone]

Romford-Upminster was an unsupervised mobile youth club on Saturday afternoons, and in the evenings, when I lived in the area. It will be interesting to see whether London Overground can quieten things down.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Virgin's open stations policy doesn't exactly help that situation. Slightly related, the stations between Manchester and Wolverhampton that XC serve (but are managed by Virgin) don't half look grim and stuck in the past.

On my train back from Manchester on the other evening two younger people (probably my age or little younger) seemed to having taken refuge under the big luggage rack, wonder if they were also trying to avoid detection?

I thought there were CCTV cameras fitted in that luggage area, unless it's for recording images only and not live monitoring?

 

[scotsman]

I thought there were CCTV cameras fitted in that luggage area, unless it's for recording images only and not live monitoring?

On VT it's for both, but relies on the TM being in the office to observe

 

[user15681]

Sittingbourne to Sheerness, indeed there are delays this evening due to disruptive passengers

Some locals decided to shoot at a train (air gun) a few months ago. One pellet hit and smashed the drivers window...

 

[scott118]

Norwich to Lowestoft, 15.50, used to bring amusement to some. Even the locals knew to avoid, the St.Trinian's express.

 

[Antman]

Just boarded a train at Swanley and there were four BTP officers there, they were saying anti social place is quite common on a Saturday night and with the station unstaffed the yobs have a field day. He said St Mary Cray is another anti social behavior hotspot, not just the station but the whole area. They once arrested an idiot there for trespassing on the track and subsequently found out that he was wanted on suspicion of murder!
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I went to Sheerness once... didn't go back... ever.

I don't blame you
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm always interested to read members on here criticising football fans and, expectedly, this thread has once again thrown up people claiming some trains are bad and should be avoided just because they carry fans!

I travel frequently to home and away games by train and I've never seen any trouble on these services - indeed, after the game, most fans just sit in their groups and may sing a few songs and have a pint or two but they're generally harmless unless you go up to them and provoke them.

That's generally been my experience too, in fact I've found some of the drunken 'hooray Henry' brigade returning from Lingfield races far worse.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Some locals decided to shoot at a train (air gun) a few months ago. One pellet hit and smashed the drivers window...

Sadly that doesn't surprise me at all

 

[BurtonM]

Virgin's open stations policy doesn't exactly help that situation. Slightly related, the stations between Manchester and Wolverhampton that XC serve (but are managed by Virgin) don't half look grim and stuck in the past.

On my train back from Manchester on the other evening two younger people (probably my age or little younger) seemed to having taken refuge under the big luggage rack, wonder if they were also trying to avoid detection?

I agree that the fact you can just walk on is daft, considering the low likelihood of ticket inspections, especially on Virgin services. I've visited most, if not all of those stations - old '60s and '70s BR-built stations (Stoke excepted, that's a fair bit older) - and IMO your sentiments extend further than just the railway stations of those towns and cities (though why Wolverhampton was granted city status genuinely baffles me).

That luggage rack is very, very deep - with the right luggage it is possible, as I've observed, to conceal oneself in there. It wouldn't surprise me if they were trying to fare dodge - maybe some 'homeless spikes' are in order.

 

[Gemz91]

I'm always interested to read members on here criticising football fans and, expectedly, this thread has once again thrown up people claiming some trains are bad and should be avoided just because they carry fans!

I travel frequently to home and away games by train and I've never seen any trouble on these services - indeed, after the game, most fans just sit in their groups and may sing a few songs and have a pint or two but they're generally harmless unless you go up to them and provoke them.

Not really relevant but I once saw a deaf Chelsea fan head butt a Canadian born Asian Manchester City fan whilst travelling on a train between London and Leeds. The Leeds fans who I was travelling with split the fight up, whilst we were happily talking to a group of Sheffield Wednesday fans, many of what the older lads were talking about past battles between Leeds and Wednesday fans during the 70/80/90s.

Sadly though, can't help but think it adds to the "all football fans are thugs" theory, even though 20 or so of us (Leeds and Wednesday fans) were happily chatting to each other, just four lads (Man City and Chelsea) who couldn't handle their pop gives everyone the bad name.

 

[Parallel]

My experience the summer before last was pretty awful. In the main it was people who had spent all day getting drunk in Weymouth and were travelling back to Yeovil and Frome.

BTP were on the platform rather half-heartedly 'screening' passengers for alcohol. Funnily enough all the drunks on the train had plenty of alcohol. BTP then decided to follow the train in the comfort of their police cars / vans from station to station rather than travelling with us.

There were fights, shouting and yelling, people being sick, drunks trying to pick fights with the rest of us who just wanted to travel home. It put my friends and I off so much that we've never returned to Weymouth.

I've travelled on a lot of night trains and buses and I've never ever experienced anything like it. In my opinion FGW and BTP did not want to deal with the problem and should be ashamed at their response.

This doesn't surprise me at all - I went to Weymouth on my birthday last year (in April), a group of people in fancy dress boarded, going for a day's drinking in Weymouth. Bearing in mind they were on the cans of Stella at not even 10 in the morning, the return trip can't have been good. Matters made worse when it was on a 150/1 and it was full and standing from Yeovil Pen Mill. It was then rammed from Dorchester but then at least the other passengers were more bothered in commenting on typical "British Rail" not putting more carriages on. :roll:

 

[Howardh]

No, its because the signalbox at Rainford is shut.

Its probably easier to pick a line that doesn't have a problem on a Fri/sat night. I'd guess most services can have a problem. Drinking, football games, hen/stag dos.

I travel back from Manchester to Bolton on Saturday nights, and I've very rarely, if ever, seen any trouble. My journeys are mostly from Oxford Road (last train/s) or the 0030 bus replacement from Picc last week where there was an orderly queue, everyone had their ticket in their hand - not that anyone asked to see - and it was like a library on board (oh, and just as cold).

No idea what it's like coming back from Victoria, which would probably take the Deansgate/Printworks drinkers home after 11; maybe the Oxford Road trains just have the theatre/cinema goers, rockers from Oxford Road and anyone from the Gay Village. Clearly a better class of passenger.......

*ducks*

Mind you, probably a guard on here will give the opposite and say I just haven't been on the right/wrong trains...