Future Train Driver for GWR

leomartin125 · 23 Jan 2016

I am apiring to be a future train driver for GWR and their new EMU stock when it comes into service, at the moment I am finishing my College studies before applying for an Apprenticeship in Operations with GWR this year too and hopefully starting in September 2016. Will I need to learn ETCS and the new signalling system because by the time I am 21 and can apply, it will be in place?

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oxoneil · 23 Jan 2016

I'm not a driver (and may never be one) but if I were you I'd look on the GWR careers site and thoroughly ingest the skills required to be a driver and aim for a job role and/or life experiences towards them so you can provide the best evidence in any future application.

IKB · 23 Jan 2016

leomartin125 said:
I am apiring to be a future train driver for GWR and their new EMU stock when it comes into service, at the moment I am finishing my College studies before applying for an Apprenticeship in Operations with GWR this year too and hopefully starting in September 2016. Will I need to learn ETCS and the new signalling system because by the time I am 21 and can apply, it will be in place?

You would not need any prior knowledge about the signalling system. This would be taught during training.

The trainee train driver selection procedures involve different psychometric tests that do not require any previous railway knowledge.

It's good that you're keen and showing you're interested by going for the apprenticeship, but at 21 your chances of getting a drivers job off the street are very slim. Not impossible - as it has been done - but the odds are not in our favour.

Use the search function on this forum to find out about the selection process. This will give you some idea as to what the desired criteria are. The Multi Modal Interview in particular will require you to demonstrate certain competencies / skills that you may or may not have yet.

Where do you live? If in London/SE there are various commuter TOCs that recruit at different times. If you wait for GWR you might be waiting a long time, especially if they have a talent pool or backlog of applicants. Given the large competition for each position, it's better to aim to get your foot in the door where you can, rather than set your heart on a particular company.

If you secured a driver job at GWR you'd most likely start off on their local commuter routes driving multiple units rather than the express routes on which the new Hitachi trains will run. I read in the railway press that the electrification is delayed by about four to five years and the wires won't reach Bristol until 2020. So really, there is no rush!

leomartin125 · 23 Jan 2016

IKB said:
You would not need any prior knowledge about the signalling system. This would be taught during training.

The trainee train driver selection procedures involve different psychometric tests that do not require any previous railway knowledge.

It's good that you're keen and showing you're interested by going for the apprenticeship, but at 21 your chances of getting a drivers job off the street are very slim. Not impossible - as it has been done - but the odds are not in our favour.

Use the search function on this forum to find out about the selection process. This will give you some idea as to what the desired criteria are. The Multi Modal Interview in particular will require you to demonstrate certain competencies / skills that you may or may not have yet.

Where do you live? If in London/SE there are various commuter TOCs that recruit at different times. If you wait for GWR you might be waiting a long time, especially if they have a talent pool or backlog of applicants. Given the large competition for each position, it's better to aim to get your foot in the door where you can, rather than set your heart on a particular company.

If you secured a driver job at GWR you'd most likely start off on their local commuter routes driving multiple units rather than the express routes on which the new Hitachi trains will run. I read in the railway press that the electrification is delayed by about four to five years and the wires won't reach Bristol until 2020. So really, there is no rush!

I live in Maidenhead and have been said that either during my Apprenticeship or after it I could be recruited into GWR as a dispatcher or a guard and work at the stations or on the trains doing different roles until I'm old enough to apply. That way I'm in the company anyway when I'm 21.

IKB · 23 Jan 2016

Yes, if you are already in the company by that stage and performing one of those roles then you might stand a better chance of applying for a trainee driver role (in terms of applying for the vacancy). You would still have to jump through the hoops with regard to the selection process and display the relevant competencies. There are plenty of guards/platform staff who apply for the driver role and don't get it. So make sure you do your homework and prepare accordingly. Start thinking now about what the drivers selection criteria is and see what gaps you have in your experience.

HSTfan!!! · 23 Jan 2016

Speaking from someone who had the same dream as you at that age - don't restrict yourself to working for GWR. Even though it is your dream to work for them you want to get your key first and it doesn't necessarily matter how you get that.
I wanted to be a passenger driver on the expresses and I'm now a freight driver and couldn't imagine myself doing anything different at present.
I note you live in Maidenhead so you would obviously stand a good chance of a vacancy at GWR, just don't restrict yourself, you live close to London where there are plenty of trainee opportunities with various companies all the time.

oxoneil · 23 Jan 2016

IKB said:
If you wait for GWR you might be waiting a long time, especially if they have a talent pool or backlog of applicants.

Oh how I laughed at this.

IKB · 23 Jan 2016

oxoneil said:
Oh how I laughed at this.

I don't read the GWR threads much, but I know you and others have been waiting a looooong time.

E&W Lucas · 24 Jan 2016

leomartin125 said:
I am apiring to be a future train driver for GWR and their new EMU stock when it comes into service, at the moment I am finishing my College studies before applying for an Apprenticeship in Operations with GWR this year too and hopefully starting in September 2016. Will I need to learn ETCS and the new signalling system because by the time I am 21 and can apply, it will be in place?

First thought on reading that:
"TRAINSPOTTER!!!!!!!

Forget anything you may think you know about the detail of railway operations. Not relevant for your initial application. Those that you meet in interviews will not know the first thing about ERTMS. They will be more interested in your manners and social skills. They're after polite, helpful young people who can help little old ladies who are in a flap because they have missed their train.

Everything posted above is spot on. Pay heed to the advice given. Put 21 out of your mind. It may seem like the main qualification to you now, but it absolutely is not. You need some evidence of being trusted with responsibility by an employer, to get anywhere near a trainee driver job. For most of us, driving was a second career, a good few years older than that.

Good luck with your application for the apprenticeship scheme. Make sure you do not come across as a spotter. Read the advert, and anything else they have sent to you. Recognise the SKILLS they are looking for. They do not want you to tell them about trains.

oxoneil · 24 Jan 2016

IKB said:
I don't read the GWR threads much, but I know you and others have been waiting a looooong time.

Sure have. I wasn't having a dig at you I genuinely smiled when I read your post.

tlionhart · 24 Jan 2016

The GWR has more than traction to aspire to...history, heritage, route coverage, helping local communities transport goods from the SW of England to London (what a number of other TOC don't do!), a varied mix of work. High speed, local suburban stoppers, branch lines (using old historic systems that again a lot of TOCs don't use!), operating trains in both AC/DC areas, old signal boxes, new advance signalling centres, absolute block semaphore areas, list goes on!
As for the traction types a number of operators use them. SWT, Southern, LOROL, South Eastern and many more. You don't have to be internal to get a job on the railway. It can be an advantage if you have knowledge of the railway (by working as a gaurd) but not a must. As many others have posted, look at the skills required to do the job and gain experience in those areas.

As EWS has mentioned, forget 21 being a target age. In fact don't even target an age. Gain your experiences and apply when your ready. You'll be left disappointed otherwise...

leomartin125 · 24 Jan 2016

E&W Lucas said:
First thought on reading that:
"TRAINSPOTTER!!!!!!!

Forget anything you may think you know about the detail of railway operations. Not relevant for your initial application. Those that you meet in interviews will not know the first thing about ERTMS. They will be more interested in your manners and social skills. They're after polite, helpful young people who can help little old ladies who are in a flap because they have missed their train.

Everything posted above is spot on. Pay heed to the advice given. Put 21 out of your mind. It may seem like the main qualification to you now, but it absolutely is not. You need some evidence of being trusted with responsibility by an employer, to get anywhere near a trainee driver job. For most of us, driving was a second career, a good few years older than that.

Good luck with your application for the apprenticeship scheme. Make sure you do not come across as a spotter. Read the advert, and anything else they have sent to you. Recognise the SKILLS they are looking for. They do not want you to tell them about trains.

Thanks very much, I will try my best not to come across as one. That's sound advice and I'll definitley take it onboard. Thanks to everyone else for their comments and advice for my future. I'll consider everything I have been told above.

MichaelAMW · 24 Jan 2016

leomartin125 said:
Thanks very much, I will try my best not to come across as one. That's sound advice and I'll definitley take it onboard. Thanks to everyone else for their comments and advice for my future. I'll consider everything I have been told above.

I think you may have missed some of the the point. It's not about not coming across as a trainspotter - whether or not you are one - it's about actually not *being* a trainspotter. The various bits of advice above from the insiders are intended to tell you to take a much broader view of things, both of what being a railway employee might mean and demand of you, and of you yourself in terms of what motivates you and what transferable skills you might have or be able to develop. Quite a few of the drivers on this forum have, elsewhere, made the point that it's not a job for the faint hearted, e.g. you might ask yourself whether doing shift work for 40 years might not be the greatest thing ever.

387star · 24 Jan 2016

When I was 21 in 2010 I passed the sift for fgw reading drivers and turned the assessment day down as I new I wasn't ready

Glad I waited and got relevant experience

red2005 · 24 Jan 2016

Everything said above is spot on, Forget about learning about signalling systems and traction etc etc etc you will be taught that if successful by people far more qualified to do so than yourself.

None of that will help you in a recruitment process, they would much prefer to see what you know about the company, routes, role and most importantly what life experience you have. Remember this is one of the most sought after jobs in the country and as a trainee they are more interested in what you are like as a person and your ability to learn than what you have read from a text book or website which has very little relevance to you at that point.

Even if you are successful in getting the job being successful in passing out of the course certainly isn't 100% certain so blabbing on about ERTMS etc probably won't help you at an interview anyway. Great that you are keen and I'm sure that would be noted but as above the best advice given is to show you have the right personality for the job and that you have common sense in abundance.

Very few people get driving jobs at 21 (possible but rare) and thousands apply each time so give yourself the best possible shot, get some life experience or get on the railway in any form you can, and forget about HST's just get the job first.

TDK · 24 Jan 2016

leomartin125 said:
I live in Maidenhead and have been said that either during my Apprenticeship or after it I could be recruited into GWR as a dispatcher or a guard and work at the stations or on the trains doing different roles until I'm old enough to apply. That way I'm in the company anyway when I'm 21.

Do you want to be a train driver or just drive a GWR EMU there is a huge difference. The first hurdle is to think hard on why you want a career as a train driver as this is probably the highest hurdle you will need to get over.

455driver · 24 Jan 2016

TDK said:
Do you want to be a train driver or just drive a GWR EMU there is a huge difference. The first hurdle is to think hard on why you want a career as a train driver as this is probably the highest hurdle you will need to get over.

Indeed, most people imagine train driving to be driving the crack expresses up the main line with about 6 station stops a day where-as they will actually be driving the crap stoppers up some manky suburban line with over 100 station stops a day!

Peoples perceptions and the reality are usually very different. :lol:

G136GREYHOUND · 24 Jan 2016

455driver said:
Indeed, most people imagine train driving to be driving the crack expresses up the main line with about 6 station stops a day where-as they will actually be driving the crap stoppers up some manky suburban line with over 100 station stops a day!

Peoples perceptions and the reality are usually very different.

There speaks a man who knows what he is talking about !

Firstly : It's hard enough to get a train driving job as it is

Secondly : To try to limit yourself within the frame of that difficulty to one
type of traction is one TOC is compounding the compoundable

Thirdly : Never come across as a spotter if you get an interview and start
trying to spout railway knowledge in that interview unless you
are pre qualified railway staff.

Fourthly : The only way mentioning specific traction may help get you the
job is if you say : "It's my dream to drive a 142 up and down
the same branch 4 times a day, especially on every Sunday
possible"

Fifthly : Who cares what train you drive, they all end up the same, you
look out the front and I hardly ever focus on what's behind my
ears unless it happens to be the wife's Stiletto heels

oxoneil · 24 Jan 2016

455driver said:
Indeed, most people imagine train driving to be driving the crack expresses up the main line with about 6 station stops a day where-as they will actually be driving the crap stoppers up some manky suburban line with over 100 station stops a day!

Peoples perceptions and the reality are usually very different.

As an outsider I've got in my head that it would make for a more interesting day to be continually stopping as opposed to hardly ever stopping.

Or is this the mindset that new and inexperienced people have which fades with time?

G136GREYHOUND · 24 Jan 2016

oxoneil said:
As an outsider I've got in my head that it would make for a more interesting day to be continually stopping as opposed to hardly ever stopping.

Or is this the mindset that new and inexperienced people have which fades with time?

Stopping frequently is a giant, giant pain in the butt. Power, brake, stop, doors - worse if you are DOO, buzz buzz if you are not, power, brake, repeat as necessary 100 times a day, 500 times a week, with all the attendant ****e storm and risk that can happen potentially with every stop !

Compared to 12 stops a day, 60 times a week, hmmmmmmmmmmmm let me think long and hard about that one.

Trust me, stopping 100 times a day is ANYTHING but more interesting, especially DOO as you are praying for

notadriver · 24 Jan 2016

Agreed but I think it's nice to have a mix on a journey. A dash at high speed followed by semi fast running for the rest of the trip.

ComUtoR · 24 Jan 2016

G136GREYHOUND said:
Trust me, stopping 100 times a day is ANYTHING but more interesting, especially DOO as you are praying for

I couldn't disagree more.

Mainline would bore me to tears.

ungreat · 24 Jan 2016

ComUtoR said:
I couldn't disagree more.

Mainline would bore me to tears.

Done both and also freight. 29 years in the job this year and stopping trains on a crappy commuter route suits me just fine..depot 2 miles away,finish 2 miles away. 4 day week,no overtime worked..just fine!

oxoneil · 25 Jan 2016

Well just goes to show that it's anything but a one size fits all kind of job then judging by those replies. Interesting.

Pugland53 · 25 Jan 2016

G136GREYHOUND said:
Stopping frequently is a giant, giant pain in the butt. Power, brake, stop, doors - worse if you are DOO, buzz buzz if you are not, power, brake, repeat as necessary 100 times a day, 500 times a week, with all the attendant ****e storm and risk that can happen potentially with every stop !

Compared to 12 stops a day, 60 times a week, hmmmmmmmmmmmm let me think long and hard about that one.

Trust me, stopping 100 times a day is ANYTHING but more interesting, especially DOO as you are praying for

I agree, I've done the 100+ stops a day driving Sprinters/Pacers and I did enjoy it, but it was hard work. I now drive HST's and it's a different world, I wouldn't go back in a hurry!

leomartin125 · 25 Jan 2016

Thanks for everyones comments and advice so far, I have taken it all in and now understand exactly what to do and not to do when it comes to looking for a future in the rail industry. From the above comments I have come to understand this:

What to do:

1). Apply for as much as possible. Any job will get you into the sector in the first place and work from there.

2). In the interview, make sure your selling yourself as a good future employee for that company, and specifically for that job description.

3). Look around, there is plenty of careers available, maybe not in the part you want right now, but getting into the industry in the first place is the first step.

What not to do:

1). Limit yourself to one TOC or area, this will limit the possibilities and odds of you ever becoming a train driver or a job in the industry in the first place.

2). Don't start talking about trains in the interview, it will make you appear as a 'SPOTTER' and not an employee who would like a job. It won't get you anywhere. You can mention your ambition but don't make your interview based around you. More what you can do for the company.

3). Focus all your energy now on becoming a conductor or platform staff and not a train driver, being a driver is an ambition sure, but not what you need to think about at all until your into the industry in the first place. Also focus on starting someplace in the railway, anywhere can get you a start and it's always progress, besides, you cannot apply for any trainee driver jobs if they pop up until your 21 anyway. Get yourself known as a good employee in the industry and the rest will take shape.

Once again thanks for everyone's input, I've learnt a lot from this thread so far.

G136GREYHOUND · 25 Jan 2016

leomartin125 said:
Thanks for everyones comments and advice so far, I have taken it all in and now understand exactly what to do and not to do when it comes to looking for a future in the rail industry. From the above comments I have come to understand this:

What to do:

1). Apply for as much as possible. Any job will get you into the sector in the first place and work from there.

2). In the interview, make sure your selling yourself as a good future employee for that company, and specifically for that job description.

3). Look around, there is plenty of careers available, maybe not in the part you want right now, but getting into the industry in the first place is the first step.

What not to do:

1). Limit yourself to one TOC or area, this will limit the possibilities and odds of you ever becoming a train driver or a job in the industry in the first place.

2). Don't start talking about trains in the interview, it will make you appear as a 'SPOTTER' and not an employee who would like a job. It won't get you anywhere. You can mention your ambition but don't make your interview based around you. More what you can do for the company.

3). Focus all your energy now on becoming a conductor or platform staff and not a train driver, being a driver is an ambition sure, but not what you need to think about at all until your into the industry in the first place. Also focus on starting someplace in the railway, anywhere can get you a start and it's always progress, besides, you cannot apply for any trainee driver jobs if they pop up until your 21 anyway. Get yourself known as a good employee in the industry and the rest will take shape.

Once again thanks for everyone's input, I've learnt a lot from this thread so far.

Cock on mate, fair play to you, I genuinely wish you every success in your ambition

Johncleesefan · 25 Jan 2016

leomartin125 said:
Thanks for everyones comments and advice so far, I have taken it all in and now understand exactly what to do and not to do when it comes to looking for a future in the rail industry. From the above comments I have come to understand this:

What to do:

1). Apply for as much as possible. Any job will get you into the sector in the first place and work from there.

2). In the interview, make sure your selling yourself as a good future employee for that company, and specifically for that job description.

3). Look around, there is plenty of careers available, maybe not in the part you want right now, but getting into the industry in the first place is the first step.

What not to do:

1). Limit yourself to one TOC or area, this will limit the possibilities and odds of you ever becoming a train driver or a job in the industry in the first place.

2). Don't start talking about trains in the interview, it will make you appear as a 'SPOTTER' and not an employee who would like a job. It won't get you anywhere. You can mention your ambition but don't make your interview based around you. More what you can do for the company.

3). Focus all your energy now on becoming a conductor or platform staff and not a train driver, being a driver is an ambition sure, but not what you need to think about at all until your into the industry in the first place. Also focus on starting someplace in the railway, anywhere can get you a start and it's always progress, besides, you cannot apply for any trainee driver jobs if they pop up until your 21 anyway. Get yourself known as a good employee in the industry and the rest will take shape.

Once again thanks for everyone's input, I've learnt a lot from this thread so far.

This is possibly the most mature and engaged use of feedback I have seen displayed on this forum, well done.
You ha e listened to others advice and taken it on. With an attitude like that from the start you will go far. Nice work

Economist · 25 Jan 2016

My advice for the OP would be to get involved in safety critical work and/or hobbies.

I fly in my spare time and without my aviation experience I would have really struggled in my application and Multi-Modal Interview. There's plenty of other stuff too, I'm sure the railway wouldn't frown on a Gold Duke of Edinburgh Award or something similar.

Unfortunately I haven't made it into a role yet but the above got me through my MMI and a couple of interviews.

leomartin125 · 26 Jan 2016

Johncleesefan said:
This is possibly the most mature and engaged use of feedback I have seen displayed on this forum, well done.
You ha e listened to others advice and taken it on. With an attitude like that from the start you will go far. Nice work

Thank you very much, I'm extremely appreciative of everyone's help and support so far. I have come to the sensible decision that I will go in for the Operations Apprenticeship with GWR for 2016 and apply when the job is uploaded to their careers website. And I have plenty of other options, one apprenticeship with Abellio Greater Anglia for example, that I can look into if the GWR Apprenticeship doesn't turn out well. Once again, thanks to everyone for your support on this thread.

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