D1009
Established Member
What is at question is not what is right or wrong, but what is legal or illegal. Are we saying the ORR's conditions of acceptance of a TOC's safety case need changing?
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WCRC banned from running trains on the mainline from 18th Feb 2016 now rescinded
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cjmillsnun
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If needs be, yes. But then again the likes of SWT, Virgin, GWR etc don't employ drivers on zero hour contracts and proactively take an interest in driver training.
One of the principles of safety management is that you seek to have measures in place before incidents take place.
lincolnshire
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It all depends who was supplying the staff that day, he might have a full time job elsewhere and just works for WCRC as and when on a zero hours contract.
As long as his main employers know that he is working for other people part time and does not conflict with his full time employment conditions.
Well that,s another Friday gone and there still not back, did see a yard full of stock and an engine in steam the other day when I went passed.
cjmillsnun
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The latest is there is no news. None of us know whether WCRC are making strides to fall into line with the ORRs requirements.
SpacePhoenix
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If DB were to buy WCRC and use their own drivers, would they make a profit out of running it (or at least cover all running costs)?
lincolnshire
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If you applied for the job to sort out the safety and running side etc. and it failed again would any other company want to employ you in a similar position?
so if you did go for it you would want some money for taking on the task in case of failure and could they afford to pay what you think your worth to do the job then?
That would look good on your C.V. or just leave it off your C.V.
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I would say it is something that DB would be wise to leave well alone and get on with running what they do in these hard times and concentrate on the bread and butter work of there company rather than hang a millstone round its neck.
A very pertinent point. Railtours are a part of the industry that is purely luxury, therefore more vulnerable to fluctuations in demand;a large part of the asset base is not renewable and old, suggesting increasing maintenance costs and the likelihood of more failures; qualified staff are equally diminishing in number without extensive training programmes. Though it is nice to see the trains out and about, I cannot see anyone taking on the business as a sensible going concern.
Rail Ranger
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Does anyone know what the outcome of the Court Case at Swindon Crown Court re Wootton Bassett last Friday 18th March was? Yesterday's "Mid-Day Scot" with the Duchess used WCRC stock and a DBC crew.
If it was heard for the first time on Friday then most likely they just entered a plea and set a date for the actual trial.
TBirdFrank
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Reported as postponed in its entirety to May
Wrong. I know who you mean, and just there as support crew.
DB operate a steam loco with two fully qualified mainline drivers, plus a driver manager (inspector) supervising. That is three fully trained, full time professionals. Therein lies the gulf between West Coast and other TOCs.
These "firemen" would not be recognised by other operators. It would be interesting to see how the recorded competency of some of the drivers would stand up to an audit too.
Just of curiosity how does one become qualified to drive a steam locomotive these days? Say I'm just a bog standard 66/67/etc driver for DB how do I end up driving steam locomotives?
cjmillsnun
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It's definitely a poisoned chalice. You'd have to be so **** hot on safety and not afraid to stand up to Mr Smith and impose your will on the company to succeed because without that, the company is doomed.
I think holding a license to drive a steam engine must take time and money and is something to be proud of. If the drivers are on a zero hours contract I guess they are fully employed by another employer so compromising safety is a no no as you could lose the right to perform as an engine driver, would this affect your license to drive for your main employer? Also the H&S could charge you as the driver if you were found to be guilty of breaking the rules, I cannot imagine any employer backing up a driver who deliberately broke the rules and any fine would have to be paid by the driver, if it was me and an employer pushed me to break rules I would walk away.
Darren R
Established Member
Highly unlikely. There's nothing much for DB to buy (or anyone else for that matter.) West Coast Railway Company Ltd own very little of the rolling stock that they use. Most of it is hired-in from the immediate parent company (Steamtown Railway Museum Ltd) and ultimate parent company (William Smith (Wakefield) Ltd.)
The most recent accounts are for the year-ending March 31st 2015, but in that year WCRC paid Steamtown Railway Museum £1.2M and William Smith (Wakefield) Ltd £406,750 for rolling stock hire. Additionally, it cost West Coast a further £161,000 to hire rolling stock from Scottish Highland Railway Co (another company owned by David Smith), which I am assuming to be the stock used on The Jacobite services.
West Coast are only carrying railway rolling stock assets worth £808,257 as at March 31st 2015. (And, incidentally, pretty much everything that WCRC does own is is debentured to Barclays Bank as security against all money due or to become due to the bank.)
Why therefore would DB want to buy West Coast? They would be buying a train operating company that currently cannot actually operate any trains and has little rolling stock of its own. It doesn't even employ any staff. They all work for Carnforth Railway Restoration & Engineering Services Ltd - another wholly-owned subsidiary of Steamtown Railway Museum Ltd.
Isn't accounting wonderful? :?
DarloRich
Veteran Member
yes it is - standard group company tactics. Lovely.
ASLEF are not, will ASLEF support a driver after an incident if they are on ZHC?
A reminder to all to please not comment on the ongoing legal proceedings until they are concluded. Once they are we will happily have a thread to discuss them. Until that time however such comments should not be made on the forum.
Thank you
Thank you
Henbury Loop
Member
DaleCooper
Established Member
Surely more was needed than "assurances", what about action?
If one of the assurances was "I will have no day-to-day involvement in the operations of the company." it would go a long way to correcting the issues that the company faced.
Yes I'm hoping that's a miscommunication and what is actual meant is 'action'!
Deepgreen
Established Member
I may be wrong, but isn't this more less what was said last time? I would have thought a reference to the previous prohibition and its lifting might have been made to highlight the differences this time (if any).
ilkestonian
Member
Link here to the ORR report, including a letter from David Smith, so judge for yourself if the assurances are sufficient
http://orr-newsroom.prgloo.com/news/orr-lifts-prohibition-notice-on-west-coast-railways
http://orr-newsroom.prgloo.com/news/orr-lifts-prohibition-notice-on-west-coast-railways
DaleCooper
Established Member
Until they disable the CCTV.
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