Collision Plymouth 03/04/16

greaterwest · 3 Apr 2016

TOCDriver said:
Exactly. I'm surprised a platform, anything SW of Bristol, could accommodate both a HST and any other stock you care to mention. Having said that, even if signaller error, the driver of the HST should have been fully aware of this. Still, let's wait until the RAIB report before jumping to conclusions

As per my previous reply, the HST driver did nothing wrong. I don't think you read the article, or this thread.

RailUK Forums

D1009 · 3 Apr 2016

greaterwest said:
The HST had been in platform 6 ever since 15:00, that's 34 minutes before 2E68 arrived.

I do not believe the HST driver did anything wrong.

I suspect TOCDriver meant the 150 driver.

TOCDriver · 3 Apr 2016

bnm said:
I can't see how the driver of the HST has done anything wrong. His train was seemingly correctly platformed and stationary when hit in the rear by 2E68.

Ooops, sorry, not read the thread or news properly! I thought the HST had gone into the 15X, not the other way around! Apologies! Looks like the 15X man has some explaining to do then.

HarleyDavidson · 3 Apr 2016

TOCDriver said:
Exactly. I'm surprised a platform, anything SW of Bristol, could accommodate both a HST and any other stock you care to mention. Having said that, even if signaller error, the driver of the HST should have been fully aware of this. Still, let's wait until the RAIB report before jumping to conclusions

What a bizarre comment!

Care to enlighten us on this? If the driver is in the cab with the brake pipe fully charged, MS in Neutral, DRA set, GSM-R setup and they're comfortable and ready to go, what more do they need to do or worry about?

If it were me, I'd be sitting there probably having a drink, not wondering whether something's going to hit my train up the backside or whether the signaller has made a mistake.

I've known them to accidentally put one on top of me at Waterloo years ago, which screwed things up, I was a tad puzzled, but not worried.

There are some really odd folk here.

ExRes · 3 Apr 2016

TOCDriver said:
Ooops, sorry, not read the thread or news properly! I thought the HST had gone into the 15X, not the other way around! Apologies! Looks like the 15X man has some explaining to do then.

A bit worrying that you use the title TOCDriver, mention "jumping to conclusions" and admit to "not read the thread or news properly", perhaps that might point to why there is so much falling out on this forum whenever this sort of situation arises

Mike395 · 3 Apr 2016

Final reminder (if it continues the thread will be locked). Whilst the investigation is proceeding, please keep to the facts and not speculate. For those asking, the reason it's not a good idea is (at least) twofold:

Firstly, any speculation has a tendency to blow out of all reasonable proportion, and turn into a 'trial by forum' type discussion, which isn't helpful to anyone and opinion becomes far more likely to be presented as fact.

Secondly, there are a lot of active rail staff on this forum, and TOCs/the BTP monitor it too, so there is a small but serious risk that discussion here may influence those dealing with the investigation itself.

hello · 3 Apr 2016

TOCDriver said:
Exactly. I'm surprised a platform, anything SW of Bristol, could accommodate both a HST and any other stock you care to mention. Having said that, even if signaller error, the driver of the HST should have been fully aware of this. Still, let's wait until the RAIB report before jumping to conclusions

i believe platform 4,5,7 and 8 at plymouth could accomodate a 2+7 hst set and a 4 car sprinter where the coaches are 20 metres in length

BritishRail83 · 3 Apr 2016

I see the media didn't waste any time in sensationalising this story. I'm sorry for anyone injured or shook up or left anxious by this incident. It shouldn't of happened and I'm confident that the RAIB will thoroughly investigate. But to put it in perspective how many people have been injured or worse on Britains roads today as a result of collision? I believe I'm correct in saying that it's been 9 years since a passenger in a British train was killed? Railways especially our own have a brilliant safety record. I'm very proud of Britain's Railway safety record.

Parallel · 3 Apr 2016

Thoughts to all those involved in the collision today.

rebmcr said:
GWR have three 'spare' power cars, so it depends on their availability, and on whether the Mk3 coaches are undamaged, but the HST could be back in service relatively quickly.

The 150 situation will be harsher, as there are already not quite enough DMUs in their fleet to run the service they want to at all times in the past there have been full-time bus replacements rationed out amongst branch lines on a rota basis.

Hmm and it doesn't help that two other 150s (and a 158/9) are currently away for work as well. To GWR's credit, they are usually pro-active with utilising all available stock when damages happen. Assuming at least 1 car of 150219 (?) will need work and possibly the other 150 that was attached will need to be examined for any damage caused by impact, GWR will (hopefully) have a couple of plans up their sleeve to minimise the shortfall of carriages.

Johncleesefan · 3 Apr 2016

Out of interest 150219 has the new pis/pa systems and matrix dot blinds? It went through refurb with 150232 (gwr livery) which has been notorious for faults

HMS Ark Royal · 3 Apr 2016

How would the Sprinters and the HST be recovered to depot? Towed or able to limp in under their own power at a shunting level of speed?

Curious to know

greaterwest · 3 Apr 2016

HMS Ark Royal said:
How would the Sprinters and the HST be recovered to depot? Towed or able to limp in under their own power at a shunting level of speed?

Curious to know

The HST would probably be driven into Laira under its own power (Laira is just past the London end of Plymouth)

I'm not so sure about the Sprinter, they may be able to drive it from the middle cab of 150249 but I don't know how operationally viable that is, or how bad the damage is to 150219.

bnm · 3 Apr 2016

Parallel said:
Thoughts to all those involved in the collision today.

Hmm and it doesn't help that two other 150s (and a 158/9) are currently away for work as well. To GWR's credit, they are usually pro-active with utilising all available stock when damages happen. Assuming at least 1 car of 150219 (?) will need work and possibly the other 150 that was attached will need to be examined for any damage caused by impact, GWR will (hopefully) have a couple of plans up their sleeve to minimise the shortfall of carriages.

Possible we'll see a hybrid comprising the undamaged half of 150219 plus a 153. Or possibly add the undamaged half to another 150 to make a hybrid 3 car 150. Still means you are effectively one unit down but does at least keep the undamaged half in traffic.

Domh245 · 3 Apr 2016

HMS Ark Royal said:
How would the Sprinters and the HST be recovered to depot? Towed or able to limp in under their own power at a shunting level of speed?

Curious to know

It'd depend on the damage to some extent. I'm only armchairing, so don't take it for a truth, but if the sprinter had damaged some piping beneath the cab and broken the brake system, it may not be towable without skates (or a very slow speed limit and the brakes isolated)

HMS Ark Royal · 3 Apr 2016

greaterwest said:
The HST would probably be driven into Laira under its own power (Laira is just past the London end of Plymouth)

I'm not so sure about the Sprinter, they may be able to drive it from the middle cab of 150249 but I don't know how operationally viable that is, or how bad the damage is to 150219.

Thank you... I keep forgetting that some 150s have a extra cab

Domh245 said:
It'd depend on the damage to some extent. I'm only armchairing, so don't take it for a truth, but if the sprinter had damaged some piping beneath the cab and broken the brake system, it may not be towable without skates (or a very slow speed limit and the brakes isolated)

Thanks

TOCDriver · 3 Apr 2016

greaterwest said:
The HST would probably be driven into Laira under its own power (Laira is just past the London end of Plymouth)

I'm not so sure about the Sprinter, they may be able to drive it from the middle cab of 150249 but I don't know how operationally viable that is, or how bad the damage is to 150219.

Looking at that damage, I can only envisage it being reversed away because you certainly couldn't connect anything to it.

HarleyDavidson · 3 Apr 2016

TOCDriver said:
Looking at that damage, I can only envisage it being reversed away because you certainly couldn't connect anything to it.

No 5h17 Sherlock! :lol:

Parallel · 3 Apr 2016

Johncleesefan said:
Out of interest 150219 has the new pis/pa systems and matrix dot blinds? It went through refurb with 150232 (gwr livery) which has been notorious for faults

Yep, 150219, 150238 and 150232 have been refreshed and had accessibility mods fitted.

jmbill · 3 Apr 2016

Johncleesefan said:
Out of interest 150219 has the new pis/pa systems and matrix dot blinds? It went through refurb with 150232 (gwr livery) which has been notorious for faults

Yes that's correct. 150219 is in plain blue FGW livery but has pink cab doors. So it's quite easy to spot on the network and is the one with a few upgraded features ahead of 2020 disability laws coming into force.

Crossover · 3 Apr 2016

HMS Ark Royal said:
Thank you... I keep forgetting that some 150s have a extra cab

Thanks

The 150s that had an 'extra' cab were those in the Midlands that were formed of a 150/1 with a single carriage 150/2 in the middle. These have all been disbanded at the point they transferred to Northern and FGW

In this case, the middle cab would be the front cab of the rear set

SpacePhoenix · 3 Apr 2016

Is the cab a single metal casting or a number of different plates welded together?

Phil. · 3 Apr 2016

Cliveblackpool said:
Few observations- According to Open Train Times 1A91 Plymoyth to Paddington was destined for platform 7, and 2E68 Penzance to Exeter St Davids platform 8.
In the picture, the track appears to have a lot of oil on it (platform 6)
The semaphore calling on signal is smaller, and has a horizontal white stripe.

The semaphore calling on signal has a white arm with horizontal red edges. It has a white arm because it is not a stop signal.

bnm · 3 Apr 2016

Crossover said:
The 150s that had an 'extra' cab were those in the Midlands that were formed of a 150/1 with a single carriage 150/2 in the middle. These have all been disbanded at the point they transferred to Northern and FGW

GWR have two 3 car 150s with middle cabs. 150925 and 150926.

Llanigraham · 3 Apr 2016

Busaholic said:
For 12 ambulance vehicles to be called does suggest the accident was, perhaps, originally thought to involve more casualties than, thankfully, were the case. Even including paramedic motorbikes, etc, that represents almost all the available vehicles/personnel from quite a wide area of Devon and Cornwall.

When I heard of the accident I have to admit to breathing a sigh of relief as to the timing. Yesterday I attended the Golden Wedding celebrations of some friends in Penzance and three of their guests, including their daughter, were travelling on a Pz to Paddington service at 14.30 today, which would still have been nowhere near Plymouth by 15.30, so I know they are safe. I'll post later as to what happened to their journey(s). Two of them had to get to Margate, one of them starting a new job tomorrow morning in London.

As someone who is involved in major incident planning and the voluntary services; if a "major incident" is called, such as a train crash, then there is a known procedure to be followed, which includes the number of Ambulances tasked. It is easier to "stand down" crews when the full circumstances are known, as appears to have been done here.

Unfortunately there appears to be a lot of speculation by the uninformed here!!

cjmillsnun · 4 Apr 2016

plymothian said:
The driver of 2E86 has confirmed he received the correct signal, and all restrictions on P15 have been lifted.

He really should not be speaking to the press until the RAIB have finished with him.

HMS Ark Royal · 4 Apr 2016

theironroad said:
Its happened at Waterloo a few times. If only all throat approaches were straight to see what is already in platform.......

Isn't Liverpool Street a straight in approach?

cjmillsnun said:
He really should not be speaking to the press until the RAIB have finished with him.

Can he get into trouble for that?

the sniper · 4 Apr 2016

cjmillsnun said:
He really should not be speaking to the press until the RAIB have finished with him.

The driver spoke to the press...?

EDIT: Unsurprisingly I can't find that anywhere... Maybe he let NR know instead? :roll:

cjmillsnun · 4 Apr 2016

the sniper said:
The driver spoke to the press...?

How else would we know that he says that he had the right signals? If it had been said to a TOC employee or an employee of the the police/network rail said person should not be talking about it either to members of the public or on a public forum... I doubt any employee would put the statement I directly quoted on this forum.

bnm · 4 Apr 2016

cjmillsnun said:
He really should not be speaking to the press until the RAIB have finished with him.

That the driver said he had the correct signal on approach to platform 6 was not said to the press. It was said to Network Rail staff who then communicated it on rail industry systems.

This allowed movements to resume past the signal in question.

cjmillsnun · 4 Apr 2016

bnm said:
That the driver said he had the correct signal on approach to platform 6 was not said to the press. It was said to Network Rail staff who then communicated it on rail industry systems.

This allowed movements to resume past the signal in question.

OK, but should that be on the forum? It is now public knowledge rather than in a restricted rail industry system.

Collision Plymouth 03/04/16

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