We shouldn't prioritise anybody. I'm not advocating coming out of an exclusive commercial policy and entering another one. Free trade as widely as possible is the key. It is bodies like the EU that require prioritisation.
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EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...
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We shouldn't prioritise anybody. I'm not advocating coming out of an exclusive commercial policy and entering another one. Free trade as widely as possible is the key. It is bodies like the EU that require prioritisation.
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http://www.cwgc.org/ <-- might be a bit of a clue why we 'Tory old fogeys' respect the Commonwealth.
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That's not what you said in post #5758.
I don't think I used the word 'prioritise' anywhere in that post. Perhaps some synthetic confusion arose becaues I was responding to a question about prioritisation (which incidentally was replying to another post in which I didn't mention prioritisation...)
I am perfectly happy for you to disagree with my posts or to ignore them at your will. Just responding with flippant pedantry is tiresome, though.
It is probably true to say that the UK economy should perhaps seek to improve our trade with the Commonwealth, because the EU has misshapen our trade and we need to fix that to ensure that we exploit all opportunities available to us. But, to be clear, this is a matter for businesses to rediscover old links and forge new ones. This does not need to prejudice European trade. As a matter of public policy, we don't need to give anybody special favours. A special favour for one country causes harm to other countries (as well as harm to the country granting the special favour). We just need to remove the impediments placed on trade with our Commonwealth allies, impediments that they did not deserve.
I can't really be a free trade enthusiast and then advocate a plethora of special arrangements. If I were PM, I would actually think seriously about unilateral tariff reductions.
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Tim R-T-C
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So the bill amendments are being debated today: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39249721
There were quotes on the news this morning about [rabid] Brexit supporters being angrily opposed to these debates over the Brexit Bill.
I'm not understanding this. Surely if they want Britain to have Parliamentary autonomy and sovereignty, then allowing our Parliamentary structure (including the House of Lords) to debate the bill is what they want. This will be the highest court and decision making body for all laws affecting the UK.
If people think that our Parliament is not representing the people or doing their job right, then giving them the total power that Brexit does is a mistake....?
There were quotes on the news this morning about [rabid] Brexit supporters being angrily opposed to these debates over the Brexit Bill.
I'm not understanding this. Surely if they want Britain to have Parliamentary autonomy and sovereignty, then allowing our Parliamentary structure (including the House of Lords) to debate the bill is what they want. This will be the highest court and decision making body for all laws affecting the UK.
If people think that our Parliament is not representing the people or doing their job right, then giving them the total power that Brexit does is a mistake....?
I was equally confused (horrified actually) by the fact that the High Court judges were declared enemies of the people for having the gall to suggest that Parliament be given a say in the matter.
Pyreneenguy
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What a huge mess and one that might not ever be resolved. It was very short-sighted of Cameron not to put a referendum safe-guard in place by demanding a 60/40% majority to implement Brexit. The 2% majority wont even cover the number who voted leave and have absolutely no idea why they did so.
I'd better get my application for French nationality underway.
"Disgusted of Gascony"
I'd better get my application for French nationality underway.
"Disgusted of Gascony"
Howardh
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If they hadn't, then they'd have been giving the PM sole power. That, to me, is a dictatorship?
chris11256
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Just been announced. Next week Nicola Sturgeon will ask for permission to hold a second legally binding independence referendum, to be held before spring 2019. Giving Scotland the choice between Brexit & EU membership. Permission from Westminster is needed, as the Scottish Parliament does not have the authority to hold one.
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Tim R-T-C
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Although if it is anything like the 2014 vote, it will be a choice between Brexit and "I'm sure they will let us back in the EU, probably, even though they say they won't, they probably will, and we'll keep the pound too... probably".
Tim R-T-C
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The British Parliament were foolish in not putting a time limit on the referendum, first time around. It was obvious the SNP were not just going to give up on their dreams and put aside independence thoughts forever.
Tim R-T-C
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Well, tell the Daily Mail that the Scottish vote will delay Brexit.
Tell the SNP that Brexit is delaying Ref2.
Let the extreme nutters on both sides fight it out to the death in Carlisle.
Everybody wins.
I believe that is known as a constitutional crisis.
It was, however, far from clear that support for independence would significantly increase to the point where it was worth expending the political capital to run another campaign.
The SNP had taken the pragmatic decision to delay a second vote until they were reasonably confident of achieving the result they desired.
chris11256
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The upside is that another no vote has the potential to kill independence for a long time, and potentially destroy the SNP politically.
Polls have not swung in favour of independence as the SNP had hoped.
Polls have not swung in favour of independence as the SNP had hoped.
YorkshireBear
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I am looking forward to the second EU referendum before Spring 2021.
I suspect that may change as 2017 proceeds and we get a clearer view of what Brexit means for Scotland.
In 2014 I was firmly in the 'No' camp, now I'm not so sure. I know other people who feel the same way.
AlterEgo
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This assumes the UK Govt will actually get a choice about what sort of Brexit it can implement!
While holding no strong feelings on Scottish independence either way, I can see why the Scots now desire full nationhood. Cameron bought them off with threats and promises which he was in no position to maintain, given his offer of a EU referendum and the fact he resigned immediately following it. The UK political landscape has changed totally since 2014 and the Scottish vote was overwhelmingly to Remain, making independence a permanently live issue. Only a referendum will resolve it and it will be very difficult for May to fend one off.
However Scottish independence will open a number of EU monetary and nationalistic fault lines that will be very difficult for the EU mandarins to patch up with hand outs. There's a very real possibility the Scots could be out in the cold for a decade and perhaps permanently, which could lead to a different kind of UK union.
However Scottish independence will open a number of EU monetary and nationalistic fault lines that will be very difficult for the EU mandarins to patch up with hand outs. There's a very real possibility the Scots could be out in the cold for a decade and perhaps permanently, which could lead to a different kind of UK union.
chris11256
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Just a thought. I wonder what impact todays announcement will have on the article 50 vote later today. I wonder if many MPs will now be tempted to approve the Lords amendments,
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Howardh
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Although not living in Scotland, my gran was Scots so I have a wee bit of tartan in me, I wanted a "no" vote last time, but now emphatically "yes" to indie. Scotland should have been given the opportunity to stay in the EU by whatever means - it hasn't been done before but I'm sure some kind of status could have been worked out. Maybe all powers could have been devolved to Holyrood save for defence (UK) so Scotland would have been independent in all but name.
chris11256
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There's a quote online from the EU. Even if independent, Scotland would not inherit the UK's membership and would need to apply from scratch.
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HSTEd
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Irrelevant, Sturgeon commands and the universe will bend to her will.
Johnuk123
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That's unsurprising given the strength of other independence movements within EU member states (primarily Catalonia).
I'm not convinced that full EU membership (adopting the Euro, etc.) would be enough to convince the majority of Scots that we're better off in the UK and out of the EU.
Xenophon PCDGS
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In terms of population, excluding the current British figure. how would Scotland rank numerically with all the existing EC countries?
Tim R-T-C
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They said this last time as well when concern was expressed as to whether the EU would allow Scotland to become a member automatically. Alex Salmond's response was just "Yes, they will let us in". Same as the whole currency issue too, even by election day the SNP seemed to have no definitive answers for most vital questions.
I think if there was a written confirmation from the EU that Scotland could remain a member with no extra terms (eg. Euro acceptance and becoming a member of Shengen) then they would be foolish to vote against independence. Without this confirmation, they would be foolish to vote for it - they will end up in a confusing legal limbo.
However, the EU members are hardly likely to give Scotland a free ride. Countries like Spain have serious independence movements of their own and if the Basque region for example see Scotland getting a good deal, it will bolster their own moves for a referendum.
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