New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

Suraggu · 27 Mar 2017

TEW said:
http://www.firstgroupplc.com/about-firstgroup/uk-rail/improving-south-western-railway.aspx

90 trains, but 750 carriages according to that. So they're going to be long trains. The current 455, 456, 458 and 707 fleet add up to 742 carriages by my sums. There's also talk of a consistent metro fleet. I reckon they could all be replaced.

That has been the plan from the get go either 5 car or 10 cars.

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bb21 · 27 Mar 2017

TEW said:
http://www.firstgroupplc.com/about-firstgroup/uk-rail/improving-south-western-railway.aspx

90 trains, but 750 carriages according to that. So they're going to be long trains. The current 455, 456, 458 and 707 fleet add up to 742 carriages by my sums. There's also talk of a consistent metro fleet. I reckon they could all be replaced.

If 458s go then what an utter waste of money.

90 trains and 750 carriages indicate some fixed formation 10-car ones. (Well, First wouldn't be daft enough to go for a mix of 4, 8 and 12s would they?

)

The Ham · 27 Mar 2017

bb21 said:
91 in total of the 455 fleet, so entirely possible.

The DfT statement says

Faster journeys will be delivered through a consistent fleet of new suburban trains offering a regular, metro-style service. Passengers can look forward to more space, ensuring that the railway can support Londons growth.

Which would also suggest that too.

[.n] · 27 Mar 2017

Oh well, I think its a real shame that Stagecoach lost, judging by the complete rubbish service I have always experienced on FGW/GWR services round me when I have taken them

Domh245 · 27 Mar 2017

I suppose the big question is, what about DOO?

pompeyfan · 27 Mar 2017

Does metro style also imply DOO? Also, if plug sockets are being installed throughout the mainline fleet, adding DOO cameras on the desiros won't be hard.

Bungle965 · 27 Mar 2017

Domh245 said:
I suppose the big question is, what about DOO?

pompeyfan said:
Does metro style also imply DOO? Also, if plug sockets are being installed throughout the mainline fleet, adding DOO cameras on the desiros won't be hard.

I thought DOO was ruled out on this franchise?
Sam

bb21 · 27 Mar 2017

I get the feeling that 458s might stay, thinking about it. The additional 707s (or equivalent) would get rid of the Desiros currently diagrammed on the Windsor side. The Reading traction diagrams are pretty much self-contained in any case.

All this then point towards suburban operation heading towards some form of DOO (or setting it up for that in the future).

cookiescrumble · 27 Mar 2017

bungle965 said:
I thought DOO was ruled out on this franchise?
Sam

I certainly hope so

Not the best news to wake up to this morning

SpacePhoenix · 27 Mar 2017

Could the 10 car fixed formations be replacing all 2x455+1x456 or 2x456+1x455 combinations with the residue being 5 car units?

bb21 · 27 Mar 2017

SpacePhoenix said:
Could the 10 car fixed formations be replacing all 2x455+1x456 or 2x456+1x455 combinations with the residue being 5 car units?

All suburban operation will likely become 5 or 10-car if they get rid of the 455s so it could be on any suburban route.

Kite159 · 27 Mar 2017

It be the end of the Stagecoach era for SWT

13% time savings for the Salisbury route will be interesting, new(ish) DMUs to make use of the 100mph section?

Bletchleyite · 27 Mar 2017

Kite159 said:
It be the end of the Stagecoach era for SWT

13% time savings for the Salisbury route will be interesting, new(ish) DMUs to make use of the 100mph section?

The only new stock being mentioned on their page is suburban EMUs and what sound like 442s. Perhaps just removing stops?

SpacePhoenix · 27 Mar 2017

Are there any good possibilities for either new routes or the extension of existing routes in the combined GWR+SWTs area?

Bungle965 · 27 Mar 2017

Kite159 said:
It be the end of the Stagecoach era for SWT

13% time savings for the Salisbury route will be interesting, new(ish) DMUs to make use of the 100mph section?

Is this the last franchise to have been around since the start of privatisation?
Sam

bb21 · 27 Mar 2017

SpacePhoenix said:
Are there any good possibilities for either new routes or the extension of existing routes in the combined GWR+SWTs area?

You'd expect something like that to be spinned by the DfT in its press release wouldn't you?

Bletchleyite · 27 Mar 2017

bungle965 said:
Is this the last franchise to have been around since the start of privatisation?

Depends what you mean by the start. VTWC sort-of is, but the Stagecoach part-ownership wasn't there at the start.

cookiescrumble · 27 Mar 2017

bungle965 said:
Is this the last franchise to have been around since the start of privatisation?
Sam

Think Virgin trains is the only one left now

superalbs · 27 Mar 2017

Chiltern was and will continue to be the longest franchise holder.

Bungle965 · 27 Mar 2017

Neil Williams said:
Depends what you mean by the start. VTWC sort-of is, but the Stagecoach part-ownership wasn't there at the start.

cookiescrumble said:
Think Virgin trains is the only one left now

Cheers for both of your replies.
Sam

Kite159 · 27 Mar 2017

Neil Williams said:
The only new stock being mentioned on their page is suburban EMUs and what sound like 442s. Perhaps just removing stops?

The devil will be in the detail, maybe removing the stop at Woking would save some time and some of the timetable 'padding' between Clapham & Waterloo.

godfreycomplex · 27 Mar 2017

2 an hour direct from Guildford - Farnham and v.v.; good news. Bye bye Hogs Back traffic!
I see Southampton Central is being dragged kicking and screaming into the 20th century as well.

BestWestern · 27 Mar 2017

pompeyfan said:
Does metro style also imply DOO? Also, if plug sockets are being installed throughout the mainline fleet, adding DOO cameras on the desiros won't be hard.

Apparently not as easy as it may seem. Issues with installing cab monitors in the gangwayed Desiro fleet, allegedly.

I would imagine Metro would eventually mean DOO, but it may just be a case of laying the foundations this time around. It's only a short franchise after all (albeit with extensions possible).

randompixel · 27 Mar 2017

How much of these are First Group initiatives and how much would any winner have had to have done?

I'm not sure I feel positive about this. I think Stagecoach did a great job generally.

Bletchleyite · 27 Mar 2017

I do notice that Island Line seems to still be in with little change - just one additional service, and no controversial stuff...this time!

godfreycomplex · 27 Mar 2017

BestWestern said:
Apparently not as easy as it may seem. Issues with installing cab monitors in the gangwayed Desiro fleet, allegedly.

Indeed. Various gauging issues as well apparently.

Bletchleyite · 27 Mar 2017

godfreycomplex said:
Indeed. Various gauging issues as well apparently.

Doesn't surprise me - the bodies are very square, rather than profiled in like all currently camera-fitted stock is.

pompeyfan · 27 Mar 2017

I've also seen they're will be direct Portsmouth - Weymouth services. Is this an extension of the Netley road stoppers, or a brand new fast or semi fast service?

godfreycomplex · 27 Mar 2017

Neil Williams said:
Doesn't surprise me - the bodies are very square, rather than profiled in like all currently camera-fitted stock is.

Precisely. Plus clearances tend towards the limited in these parts.

SpacePhoenix · 27 Mar 2017

Kite159 said:
The devil will be in the detail, maybe removing the stop at Woking would save some time and some of the timetable 'padding' between Clapham & Waterloo.

That would mean that for journeys like to Alton, someone west of Woking would have to get the train all the way to Waterloo and change there. Probably adding at least an hour to a journey

New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

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