You can probably get a small apartment in Rhyl for a decent price.
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EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...
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Howardh
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Can I pass on that...?
Where's your patriotism!?! A good British holiday destination like Rhyl is far superior to those foreign dumps! It's time to accept that the people have spoken and get on with enjoying the tremendous opportunities we now have!
Howardh
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Howardh
Established Member
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i don't think they will be imprisoning us, unless we've been very, very naughty, but whether there will be flights to get us to Funchal is debatable right now. Even if they manage to sort out a signature; we then have to worry about whether our consumer travel rights are in place when Conair leaves us stranded again.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
Britain is actually a good place to spend a holiday and I wish people would stop
a) suggesting Britain’s crap. It isn’t.
b) suggesting Brexit “imprisons” citizens here. It doesn’t.
Brexit is all manner of bad and confusing things but it is not that.
For all the foreign travel I do I’ve had lovely short breaks in Cheddar and Cornwall this year.
How do you explain bus deregulation, scarce funding for buses and poor public transport integration?
Easy to say when you have dual citizenship.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
Okay so bad buses = Britain is crap...Sure(!)
Nobody is imprisoning you. You make it sound like you won’t be able to travel abroad.
You may not care about buses but to me they are important.
It is nothing to do with travel abroad. That has never been in doubt (although even flying abroad sounds dodgy now, judging by the above link).
You know full well it is all about ability to live and work abroad. What about the people who want to retire in Spain or France, in particular?
You have the golden ticket of dual citizenship so you can never understand what it is like for the rest of us.
I spent four nights in an apartment in Split for half the price of two nights in a Youth Hostel in the lakes. Now the lake district is an amazing place but I guess you get where I'm coming from if it comes to budget and weather.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
They aren’t the definition of whether we are a crap island though. Not by any stretch of the imagination.
But you will still be able to live and work abroad. You just might have to satisfy certain criteria.
I haven’t ever had any interest in living or working in any country I don’t have citizenship for, except maybe Canada. But guess what? I can’t just up sticks and move there. That’s life. Suck it up.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
That’s great - and I once had a weekend in Riga for under £100. But that kind of thing doesn’t come for free. There are consequences to being in a Union with free movement of people from countries where the cost of living is so cheap.
I still don’t like Brexit but I am even less tolerant of people talking down the country I live in like it’s a dump. It’s not a dump.
That's incredibly callous of you. You know how much this means to me. You know full well that we've grown up with the understanding that we can go anywhere in the EU. It is nothing like, say, wanting to immigrate to Canada, as we've never had free movement there.
That "certain criteria" is far from trivial. Many EU countries (including the UK) are effectively barred to non-EU citizens for retirement. And even if you can get residency, there are also the issues regarding healthcare and pensions.
I live here too, so you don't need to tell me what it is like.
Howardh
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Meanwhile...looks like it's all over. No deal signed, sealed, delivered if you glance at the front page of the Times. Davis seems to have given up the ghost.
So the question is...now what? General Election? A "do we accept the no-deal or withdraw A50" referendum? Just accept it because we have to? All the Brexiteers said everything was gonna be rosy. I'm afraid it's looking more like what we put on the roses.
Meanwhile Farage is looking for his passport, the Caymen Islands might have a nice little villa available, and the banks do good rates.
So the question is...now what? General Election? A "do we accept the no-deal or withdraw A50" referendum? Just accept it because we have to? All the Brexiteers said everything was gonna be rosy. I'm afraid it's looking more like what we put on the roses.
Meanwhile Farage is looking for his passport, the Caymen Islands might have a nice little villa available, and the banks do good rates.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
It seems as if I do, because you’re going on about it like it’s terrible, when in fact Britain is a great place to live. Not the best place, but still a great place.
It’ll still be a great place even after Brexit (which for the record I oppose).
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
It’s not callous to point out that there’s no absolute birthright to just go and live in whichever country you like.
There are significant consequences arising from free movement of people and it formed one of the cornerstones of the Leave campaign.
Free movement was always conditional on us being a member of the EU (or in having some sort of agreement in lieu of that, which will probably still happen), and now we are on the road to no longer being a member.
Just compare the cycling and local buses to the Netherlands. No contest.
I've lived here all my life, nearly 43 years, so I know what it is like.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
If that’s your arbiter of what makes a country great to live in then that’s up to you.
I’d also point out that, at 43 years, you say you’re basically retired and achieved that part of your goal, so I don’t think the UK has been that bad to you!
If I knew I would be imprisoned here I would have left Britain when I was young when I realised how much better it is elsewhere. I was conned into believing that things here would get better by people like John Prescott. When things didn't get better at least I knew that I could leave when I retired.
Free movement is brilliant and is the best thing about the EU. I would rather die than lose free movement. And if we lose free movement, I will die.
I probably could have saved the same amount of money elsewhere.
And Brexit has forced me back to work. If reciprocal healthcare is lost, I will have to work, save and invest almost all my earnings (so no life) until I'm 60 and hope there isn't a stock market crash, assuming residency is still available. So Brexit will have lost me most of my retirement if I die in my sixties.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
Then hopefully you don’t need me to point out that you made a risky life choice centred around your own wants and needs, which hasn’t paid off.
There’s nothing wrong with making risky life choices. I know a guy who jacked in a lucrative job as a Eurostar TM and who now lives exceptionally frugally in his touring caravan, essentially of no fixed abode. But if it doesn’t work out, it doesn’t work out, and you need a Plan B which hopefully won’t leave you destitute or deeply unhappy.
Risk is risk I’m afraid.
Steveman
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When we had the referendum you said you were going to kill yourself, now you're saying you're going to die if we lose free movement.
You are an attention seeker.
There has never been any risk of losing free movement until a couple of years ago. We've had it all our lives. I have been extremely risk averse in my life. I am being punished by my fellow citizens for not taking risks. My fellow citizens, of a country that you are so willing to defend, are pushing me towards death.
It was always about free movement. There is still hope.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
No, there's always been some risk of losing free movement. In the same way, there's always a risk of recession or economic hardship, which is why people ought to save money and think about how they'll cope if the worst happens.
Setting yourself up to retire on the absolute minimum you can afford, and wanting to move abroad to a country in which you weren't born and aren't a citizen doesn't seem risk averse to me. It seems incredibly risky, particularly when if it doesn't go to plan you'll end up hating work, hating the country you live in, hating the people who live there with you, etc etc.
You'll probably be able to work in the Netherlands if you like - perhaps there'll be requirements for you to have certain skills. Whether you'll be able to retire there having not paid (any?) tax to maintain or build the super infrastructure they have is another question.
Brexit is not great and I lament it (and the way it is happening), but I don't think people voted to "push you towards death" or, conversely, to punish me for some unseen sin.
The simple fact is, voters chose to Leave, and that's that. I don't like it, but I do realise my "side" lost and I'm past moaning about it now. Brexit has illustated to me though that it's not just a lot of Leavers who have unrealistic expectations from life.
I'm afraid I have very little sympathy.
Even in, say, 1998? If this forum was around then, we would be more likely to be debating whether we would be joining the Euro currency. Nobody would be talking about losing free movement.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
It doesn't matter if people talk about it or not, international agreements only last for as long as parties agree to them. You put all your eggs in one basket and then someone came and turned your basket over (but not out of spite).
I'm not trying to criticise your own personal choices, but I don't really identify with your self-pity, and your hate for this country which appears to have already given you a great deal.
The point is, nobody seriously thought that we would be leaving the EU back then. The debate was only whether we would become more or less integrated into the EU. If bookies were giving odds on leaving the EU back then, the odds would probably have been 10-1 at the very best.
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