Why on earth would any sensible person chance it for the sake of £1.50 on a £16/£28 fare?
I wouldn't ever chance such a thing on any fare anywhere.
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Great Northern and Thameslink May 18 service changes
- Thread starter Failed Unit
- Start date
- Status
Why on earth would any sensible person chance it for the sake of £1.50 on a £16/£28 fare?
I wouldn't ever chance such a thing on any fare anywhere.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
GoatSarah
Member
- Joined
- 20 Feb 2018
- Messages
- 103
I see it more in terms of adding £1.50 to the cost of a Zone 1 single for no good reason.
Besides, you can see down the entire length of the train.
The chances of getting away with slipping an item unpaid into your handbag at a supermarket self-scan checkout are pretty good. Would you do that?
GoatSarah
Member
- Joined
- 20 Feb 2018
- Messages
- 103
No, but in this case I'm literally paying for a zone 1 single anyway. They're just not providing me with the ability to buy it until I reach Farringdon.
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,438
That’s a seemingly standard fault. As far as previous discussions have revealed I expect all London Terminals let the said tickets through, even if you are on the notionally wrong side of London.
They probably code all tickets exactly the same, after all a London Terminal ticket bought from down here in Hants has to work the barriers everywhere from Paddington to London Bridge and 7 others in between. Plenty of reports of TVMs at London terminals issuing tickets that can only be used somewhere else...
Probably more appropriate to discuss in the fares forum though...
bramling
Veteran Member
They are shown in RTTT a conveying 1st and standard.
Is there anything official saying Cambridge-Maidstone will be standard only?
There's a little more loaded into RTTT as of today, including a few services which weren't showing hitherto - in particular the three evening "Pullman" (i.e. 365) services to Baldock/Letchworth. It seems to be mainly the Welwyn - London trains which aren't yet in there.
A Cambridge - London Terminals ticket is currently valid to travel between Kings Cross St Pancras and Moorgate via the Underground but is not valid to enter/exit at intermediate stations.
From May I assume that a Cambridge - London Terminals ticket will be valid into Moorgate via St Pancras, changing to the Underground at Moorgate.
From May I assume that a Cambridge - London Terminals ticket will be valid into Moorgate via St Pancras, changing to the Underground at Moorgate.
methethpropbut
Member
Wouldn't a Cambridge - London Terminals ticket be valid via Farringdon to Moorgate anyway?
GoatSarah
Member
- Joined
- 20 Feb 2018
- Messages
- 103
Problem solved!
Where's the loss? It's like slipping something into your hand back taking three steps and then taking it out and paying for it.
GoatSarah
Member
- Joined
- 20 Feb 2018
- Messages
- 103
Indeed. If I was able to run upstairs, reach over and tap in, then run down and get back on the train at St Pancras it would have the same effect as getting off at Farringdon and tapping in.
But I’m nowhere near that athletic.
Some Northbound services are now stopping at London Bridge. Any idea why Southbound services are not and are still predominately routed via Elephant & Castle ?
Is the gap in the Thameslink timetable early Sunday morning being filled with the introduction of the May timetable ?
Late night visitors to London either have to rush back before the last train or wait for 5 hours until an all stations service at 6am on Sunday morning. Similarly, those travelling on early Sunday morning flights from Luton Airport are not able to travel to the airport.
I understand track maintenance may cause inconvenience on certain occasions, it should be possible to operate a limited service prior to 6am Sunday surely ?
Is the gap in the Thameslink timetable early Sunday morning being filled with the introduction of the May timetable ?
Late night visitors to London either have to rush back before the last train or wait for 5 hours until an all stations service at 6am on Sunday morning. Similarly, those travelling on early Sunday morning flights from Luton Airport are not able to travel to the airport.
I understand track maintenance may cause inconvenience on certain occasions, it should be possible to operate a limited service prior to 6am Sunday surely ?
I suppose that once the new timetable is in place and there's no chance of a 313 standing in for a service, first class can safely be 'added' to the services that are currently standard only.
I have to say I hadn't really thought of that before.
Also, I believe that from next week a lot more services will be officially announced as calling at London Bridge than have been previously.
bramling
Veteran Member
Unless anyone's actually seen anything to the contrary, I can't see any reason to take away first on that service.
I've had a look through the 365 workings from May. It appears to go like this:
In the morning, 7 pairs and 1 triple, the triple doing the 07:05 Peterborough-KX. It seems the remaining triples ex Peterborough in the morning peak are 387s, so this isn't going to please the Peterborough route commuters if they want maximum seats. Indeed some morning peak shoulder workings from Peterborough remain 2x365. Needless to say all units stable in Hornsey after the morning peak.
Things are more complicated in the evening, as the units appear to come out of Hornsey as 4 pairs and 3 triples. The pairs all do Baldock/Royston services, with one pair finishing with 19:36 KX-Peterborough. One triple divides at Peterborough, with one unit running back to KX singly on 19:42 Peterborough-KX. Another triple runs back to KX on 18:32 Peterborough-KX and then divides, two units making 20:06 KX-Peterborough, and the third unit laying over at KX and joining up with the single unit off 19:42 Peterborough-KX to form a double for 21:06 KX-Peterborough. The third triple simply stables after finishing at Peterborough. So more 12 cars to Peterborough in the evening, but still not persisting long into the evening - although to be fair the demand may not be there.
The three after-PM-peak 2x365 workings to Baldock or Letchworth don't appear to clash with the proposed second Cambridge-Brighton Thameslink service, so I can't see any operational reason for these services to cease in December. It's a pity they aren't running all day!
There appear to be 3x return trips from Peterborough to London on Saturdays which are presumably 2x365 each. All these are fast from/to Biggleswade.
Also, if we thought 4-cars had finished on GN, think again -- there seems to be 4-car working on Sundays, although it's not clear whether this is 387s (probably) or there may be a small amount of 365 work.
On a different note, I notice a few class 700 services have been cancelled this week. 2122 KX-Peterborough cancelled both Wednesday and Thursday evenings, and 0604 KX-Cambridge cancelled this morning. The first two were reportedly down to lack of driver, and the latter due to a defect with the train.
Last edited:
Looks like the Cambridge/Ely/Kings Lynn services are pretty much ‘done’ now in RTT etc. The first morning service has finally appeared, for example.
I note that Saturday offers the same time for the last train to Ely and Kings Lynn as Monday-Friday - again changed from the consultation, where there was one 30 minutes later. At least the current hour-long gap in trains north from Cambridge before the last train is finally filled in, which is about the only improvement we seem to be getting for now.
Also as on M-F, the Ely to KGX service inexplicably gains around 10 minutes padding compared to today. Again in contradiction to what was in the consultation timetable.
The less said about the Sunday service the better. The same wholly inadequate service as now, and slower. Super!
I note that Saturday offers the same time for the last train to Ely and Kings Lynn as Monday-Friday - again changed from the consultation, where there was one 30 minutes later. At least the current hour-long gap in trains north from Cambridge before the last train is finally filled in, which is about the only improvement we seem to be getting for now.
Also as on M-F, the Ely to KGX service inexplicably gains around 10 minutes padding compared to today. Again in contradiction to what was in the consultation timetable.
The less said about the Sunday service the better. The same wholly inadequate service as now, and slower. Super!
I do take your point (and my analogy wasn't quite apt). I'm not sure if the balance of revenue between TfL and GTR is equivalent both ways.
SprinterMan
Established Member
In the original 2019 timetable released in Summer last year, the Cambridge to Maidstones were shown as Standard only. I have since been informed that this was not correct, and that they will be run with first class. I have PDF copies of them if people are interested.
Adam
Where's the minimum service spec available from? Is it on railplan2020?
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,438
I think these are choices for the next Southeastern franchise bidders, Railplan2020 doesn’t cover that.
Thanks, is there anything similar available for great northern?
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,438
Not really. The two situations are slightly different. GN is an existing franchise, operated by GTR, being subjected to unexpected additional changes that are still being consulted on. The earlier “railplan2020” links go to draft May 2018 timetables.
The Southeastern train service franchise service level specification is about proposals for the next southeastern franchise, in the ITT, but yet to be awarded.
This thread is really just about the former...
Last edited:
USBT
Member
- Joined
- 5 Nov 2017
- Messages
- 121
So they are. Just checked the NRE for tomorrow’s 1005 Brighton-Bedford and the stop at LBG (1111-1115) is showing.
Kite159
Veteran Member
Some were running via London Bridge yesterday (and as the picture shows they were quite popular with passengers waiting to head towards Gatwick/Brighton.)
Attachments
Paul London
Member
- Joined
- 19 Oct 2017
- Messages
- 5
Yes this one is now advertised and it is only 8 coaches. Full and crammed at Blackfriars and they now stop and advertise it at London Bridge at 5:25 in the peak of the rush hour.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G72926/2018/04/10
What a way to showcase a new service. Why they can't make it 12 coaches as it is a Bedford/Brighton leaving LBG in the middle of the rush hour is beyond me.
I've just noticed that because the Thameslink timetable is coming in in May but the South Western Railway timetable changes don't come in until December, there will be a period where getting to and from certain stations will be more time consuming in the morning.
Going forward there will be no 8.16 Guildford to London Victoria service. As there is no 8.28 Guildford to Waterloo via Bookham service, this starting from Effingham Junction instead, passengers will have to use the 8.07 and wait at Effingham Junction.
In the evening there is similarly a 12-15 minute wait at Effingham Junction for a connecting train.
Of course there are some other hours of the day when you have an improved service. Thameslink will be run two morning services to London Bridge at 6.39 and 7.12. The 6.39 leaves just 11 minutes after the 6.28, and 19 minutes before the 6.58. So that's an increase in frequency,
Incidentally the 7.12 causes the 7.14 Guildford to Waterloo via Cobham service to be retimed to depart 2 minutes later at 7.16. It was only brought forward to try and keep it on time north of Surbiton. I never found it to be too bad at keeping to time previously, prior to the timing change, as there is a reasonable gap to the preceding train.
Going forward there will be no 8.16 Guildford to London Victoria service. As there is no 8.28 Guildford to Waterloo via Bookham service, this starting from Effingham Junction instead, passengers will have to use the 8.07 and wait at Effingham Junction.
In the evening there is similarly a 12-15 minute wait at Effingham Junction for a connecting train.
Of course there are some other hours of the day when you have an improved service. Thameslink will be run two morning services to London Bridge at 6.39 and 7.12. The 6.39 leaves just 11 minutes after the 6.28, and 19 minutes before the 6.58. So that's an increase in frequency,
Incidentally the 7.12 causes the 7.14 Guildford to Waterloo via Cobham service to be retimed to depart 2 minutes later at 7.16. It was only brought forward to try and keep it on time north of Surbiton. I never found it to be too bad at keeping to time previously, prior to the timing change, as there is a reasonable gap to the preceding train.
Yes, quite a few Bedford - Brighton rush hour services are still crammed 8 car units instead of 12 car. Not the best use of 700/1 fleet, but I believe someone commented it was due to lack of 12 car stabling at Bedford. Not sure when that will be resolved.
- Status