They might, but they probably wouldn't care. They'd go to the station to buy a ticket when they discovered they needed to, or use a website, and discover they needed to go via Sheffield or wherever. They'd never know about the sign at Doncaster which, really, only seems to be annoying people who it's not aimed at anyway.
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Do not travel! [Kings Cross weekend closures Jan/Feb 2020]
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They might, but they probably wouldn't care. They'd go to the station to buy a ticket when they discovered they needed to, or use a website, and discover they needed to go via Sheffield or wherever. They'd never know about the sign at Doncaster which, really, only seems to be annoying people who it's not aimed at anyway.
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londonbridge
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It's FA Cup (round four) weekend so we won't know what matches are taking place until after the third round is completed There are, of course, sets of fixtures in the Championship and leagues one and two already scheduled but some of these will obviously be postponed due to clubs winning their third round ties. If it goes ahead due to both clubs being knocked out in round three, the most prominent league fixture I could see being impacted is the Championship match between Leeds and Millwall.
theironroad
Established Member
The alternative may ned to be s bit more punchy, but I agree with you that the blanket do not travel isn't a great impression.
ashkeba
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Does a "Do Not Travel" trigger travel insurance payouts or is that only if the police or government issues it? If so, I expect insurers to add exclusions for UK rail if this practice continues.
Steve Harris
Member
Altered the quote for correctness.
I do agree though, but I would say a lot rather than some. The only thing is, the railway (like other organisations) always go to the lowest denominator and treat everybody as completely thick. Which I find very patronising to the people who do actually have common sense.
I don't really know how it can be done differently though as some people think they are more important than others regarding needing to travel and then not taking any responsibility for their travel choices when there isn't enough RRB's etc and they're squashed into someone else's armpit.
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So one 9 car Azuma is the equivalent to 10 coaches for the RRB.
So given how many services that would normally run how many coaches do you think they should be providing for all these people? 300? 500? thats just not going to be feasible especially if they are meant to keep to time which you can never know until the day so surely even the most vocal about this notice can see that any other option is just plain silly.
So given how many services that would normally run how many coaches do you think they should be providing for all these people? 300? 500? thats just not going to be feasible especially if they are meant to keep to time which you can never know until the day so surely even the most vocal about this notice can see that any other option is just plain silly.
Travel insurance cover tends to exclude UK anyway.
Which happens to be the vast majority of the market...
Skimpot flyer
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In the old days, when these two sets of fans got together, the hooliganism was occasionally interrupted by the outbreak of a football match !!
Indeed. Personally I think a simple statement of facts is what's needed, along the lines of "no direct trains between x and y on z date", rather than meaningless instructions.
It does occur to me that 'No trains from this station to London Kings Cross on [dates]' is only slightly longer and is as clear, while being that bit more descriptive.
That said, while 'Do Not Travel' comes off as a bit odd, it's not necessarily wrong.
Virgin Trains used to use 'no trains at London Euston on [dates]' underneath every London-bound train on the summary of departures screens on the days leading up to the HS2 closures. That definitely caught people's attention.
That said, while 'Do Not Travel' comes off as a bit odd, it's not necessarily wrong.
Virgin Trains used to use 'no trains at London Euston on [dates]' underneath every London-bound train on the summary of departures screens on the days leading up to the HS2 closures. That definitely caught people's attention.
But people often do not realise that "No trains between London and Peterborough" also means none between London and Doncaster/Leeds/Hull/York/Newcastle etc etc.
Interesting though this discussion is there are a few factors not mentioned.
Firstly the physical sign in the OP is quite small, to post some of the wordy suggestions on such a sign would result in it being so cluttered that the impact would be lost - the fewer words the bigger the impact.
Secondly as has been pointed out elsewhere RRB from Peterborough would require circa 10 road vehicles for one scheduled train, these would then take around 2 hours 20 mins to get from Peterborough to Kings Cross on a good day and vice versa, resulting in most drivers being unable to do more than one round trip including a break in Central London. Leaving aside the sheer number of coaches and drivers required to do this over the operating day, there isn't now the physical space at either Peterborough or Kings Cross to allow for that number of vehicles to be on site or in transition between journeys.
Thirdly Peterborough is not a terminus station in the normal sense, even enlarged as it is now i doubt that LNER/NR would be able to run a full service in each direction leading to fewer and slower services to/from stations between York/Doncaster and Peterborough
So to go back to Doncaster leisure travellers, leaving at 0900 give or take a few minutes via LNER/RRB would give an arrival at Kings Cross of circa 1300 at best, not leaving much of the day to do anything, and with the prospect of a rerun to get home. The message is clearly don't travel whether your at Doncaster or any LNER station further south, and those very few people that have to travel will always find a way.
Firstly the physical sign in the OP is quite small, to post some of the wordy suggestions on such a sign would result in it being so cluttered that the impact would be lost - the fewer words the bigger the impact.
Secondly as has been pointed out elsewhere RRB from Peterborough would require circa 10 road vehicles for one scheduled train, these would then take around 2 hours 20 mins to get from Peterborough to Kings Cross on a good day and vice versa, resulting in most drivers being unable to do more than one round trip including a break in Central London. Leaving aside the sheer number of coaches and drivers required to do this over the operating day, there isn't now the physical space at either Peterborough or Kings Cross to allow for that number of vehicles to be on site or in transition between journeys.
Thirdly Peterborough is not a terminus station in the normal sense, even enlarged as it is now i doubt that LNER/NR would be able to run a full service in each direction leading to fewer and slower services to/from stations between York/Doncaster and Peterborough
So to go back to Doncaster leisure travellers, leaving at 0900 give or take a few minutes via LNER/RRB would give an arrival at Kings Cross of circa 1300 at best, not leaving much of the day to do anything, and with the prospect of a rerun to get home. The message is clearly don't travel whether your at Doncaster or any LNER station further south, and those very few people that have to travel will always find a way.
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whoosh
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Some of the responses on this thread.... Dear me.
I'm surprised there hasn't been the cry of the 'normal' passenger of, "Can't they just add coaches to the train on the line that is running, and get us to London still all sitting down?"
I'm surprised there hasn't been the cry of the 'normal' passenger of, "Can't they just add coaches to the train on the line that is running, and get us to London still all sitting down?"
bramling
Veteran Member
<sigh> It’s surprising some people manage to mind their way out of their front door. Then again it might make life a lot easier for everyone else if they didn’t!
Seriously, with the plethora of information sources readily available nowadays there really is little excuse.
Then again, I remember a station in northern England where the track was in the process of being dug up for renewal and the place was plastered in publicity advising of the engineering works. Yet still a group of people huddled in the waiting shelter frantically glancing at their watches as the normal departure time of the train came and went. Having seen this I can believe anything!
How does offering cheap advance tickets via Sheffield minimise the probabality of overcrowding ?
I don't know why you feel the need to make up comments on other's behalf. If the ECML is blocked for whatever reason I expect to find the MML busier than normal. Equally, if the MML is blocked I expect to find more Sheffield - London passengers than normal travelling via Doncaster. indeed, I will be doing that myself during the current line closure between Market Harborough and Bedford and will certainly not be coming on here to complain about overcrowding if I encounter any as a result.
Or just say "no trains to Kings Cross" then.
I've seen the "don't travel" message in Leeds, which can't be good, given that most services using Leeds won't be affected anyway.
The vast majority of policies on the UK market cover UK travel if and only if a certain number of nights’ hotel accommodation (typically 3) have been prebooked.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Could it be the forerunner of much reduced RRB operations post Feb when they all have to be accessible?
Why would ticket acceptance be required? Presumably there won't be any LNER advance tickets to or from London that weekend. National Rail shows a super off peak return via Sheffield for £98.80. The majority of the journeys it offers are via Sheffield rather than via Peterborough and Bedford.
I suspect that many leisure travellers will be put off by the lack of advance fares and the extended journey times.
That didn't stop people buying open tickets in August, hence the need to be able to deal with that!
At least there is capacity on WCML/Avanti for Edinburgh - London
Failed Unit
Established Member
If you were an irregular passenger you probably wouldn't really change your plans.
For Lincolnshire the planners are sending you normally from St Pancras via Leicester. Slightly longer but now worse then via Cambridge on the weekends that is the option. None of the cheapest APs are available but the fares I am getting wouldn't put me off either. Longer distance journeys are getting directed out of Euston.
The advice however is good if you are doing Welwyn Garden City - London which I suspect most people will either drive to St Albans or the nearest LUL station.
If you want some fun however - put in London Terminals - Market Rasen on the Saturday departing at 0700. £40 gets you a lovely rail tour (which can't be valid).
0700 London Marylebone - Leamington Spa
0900 Leamington Spa - Nuneaton
0951 Nuneaton - Liecester
1024 Liecester - Loughborough (on a train which comes from St Pancras)
1048 Loughborough - Lincoln (why not join at Liecester)
1235 Lincoln - Market Rasen
Very strange when the 0934 London - Nottingham would get you to Nottingham in time for the 1129 Nottingham - Lincoln service but a nice cheap morning of bashing me thinks.
For Lincolnshire the planners are sending you normally from St Pancras via Leicester. Slightly longer but now worse then via Cambridge on the weekends that is the option. None of the cheapest APs are available but the fares I am getting wouldn't put me off either. Longer distance journeys are getting directed out of Euston.
The advice however is good if you are doing Welwyn Garden City - London which I suspect most people will either drive to St Albans or the nearest LUL station.
If you want some fun however - put in London Terminals - Market Rasen on the Saturday departing at 0700. £40 gets you a lovely rail tour (which can't be valid).
0700 London Marylebone - Leamington Spa
0900 Leamington Spa - Nuneaton
0951 Nuneaton - Liecester
1024 Liecester - Loughborough (on a train which comes from St Pancras)
1048 Loughborough - Lincoln (why not join at Liecester)
1235 Lincoln - Market Rasen
Very strange when the 0934 London - Nottingham would get you to Nottingham in time for the 1129 Nottingham - Lincoln service but a nice cheap morning of bashing me thinks.
Although as I pointed out earlier EMR Advance tickets are available between London and Doncaster and there is availability on several services throughout the day.
theironroad
Established Member
I've no insight really, but I wonder if the days of extensive RRBs are on the decline overall anyway.
Quite how anyone thinks giving the industry a one month reprive from its prm obligations is going to solve the issue I really don't know.
Maybe there's thousands of brand new suitable buses in convoy as we speak just needs a few more weeks before they can leap into service.
I also wonder if the industry as a whole and the rdg wonder if the complexity and what must be a pretty extensive cost to network rail or someone is all really worth it.
I'd certainly say that people just being told "there's no alternative transport" and "do not travel" messages are on the increase.
I hope I'm wrong.
malc-c
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Catch 22 - The Public moan about delays which are often due to old infrastructure failing... Yet when plans are made to renew said infrastructure and implement improvements to give said public a better service Network rail get slated for closing off a section of the ECML for a few weekends... - They can't win.
I'm sure anyone wanting to get into London via stations North of Peterborough on the ECML on the days KX is closed could do so via Peterborough to Cambridge and then Cambridge - London Liverpool Street services ?
I'm sure anyone wanting to get into London via stations North of Peterborough on the ECML on the days KX is closed could do so via Peterborough to Cambridge and then Cambridge - London Liverpool Street services ?
I'm sure they'd be plenty of space on the 2 or 3 car XC trains between Peterborough and Cambridge....
malc-c
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Probably not because a bus to Bedford wouldn't have anyone else on it. Those XC services are already full for most of the day with long-distance passengers, and people going to Stansted Airport.More than on a bus to Bedford
The Planner
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The cost is borne by Schedule 4 compensation to the operators paid by Network Rail which is incorporated into track access charges, so overall it should be neutral (it isn't). The cost is fixed dependent on the length of possession and trains cancelled, it isn't "here is a bill, pay up" from the TOC. Unless someone wants to remove Schedule 4 as a whole or re-invent it, it isn't likely in the short term.
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