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TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress
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kje7812
Member
The chiltern ones were covered here:
Chiltern Class 68s withdrawn due to cracks
News this morning that 7 out of the 8 Chiltern class 68s have been found to have cracks on the ETS Mountings. Both CR 68 diagrams being covered by units UFN.
www.railforums.co.uk
Grumpy Git
On Moderation
One could argue that some of the foreign rolling stock manufacturers have no real world sense of UK track conditions?
Either that or the product is underspecified?
YorkshireBear
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I have probably said it before, but a retired rolling stock engineer I know suggested (regarding the class 80x withdrawals because of cracks) that he suspected that the people buiding the trains had no knowledge or experience of railway operating conditions, and the [current] operators had no engineering knowledge or experience. I suspect that this might be similar, so they wet themselves at the slightest hiccup, rather than think about it, scrutinise the fleet for genuine problems and stop the worst offenders.
And how, pray tell, do you scrutinise the fleet and find those worst offenders if they're out in service?
My friend said he spent all of the weekend doing alternating 12-hour shifts with someone equally well qualified and experienced scrutinising every vehicle - and took personal responsibility for releasing all the runners back into service.
Maybe they didn't rely on 99% of the fleet being out on the road back then, but even now there are always sets stopped for maintenance or exams. Start with them, push them out if they are OK and check each set as soon as it comes onto the depot in turn.
And if your rolling stock supplier decides which are fit for traffic? You can examine them to your hearts content but if your decision makes no difference....
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
This piece is about the acceptance by TPE of its final Mk5 set from CAF.
So whatever reservations forum members might have about the CAF product, TPE and the Rosco are clearly prepared to pay good money for it.
There is also speculation about the likely deployment of the fleet in the light of TPE network reductions.
TransPennine Express mulls fleet strategy as final CAF trainset accepted | Rail Business UK | Railway Gazette International
So whatever reservations forum members might have about the CAF product, TPE and the Rosco are clearly prepared to pay good money for it.
There is also speculation about the likely deployment of the fleet in the light of TPE network reductions.
TransPennine Express mulls fleet strategy as final CAF trainset accepted | Rail Business UK | Railway Gazette International
Goldfish62
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Could you summarise the fleet deployment speculation? I can't access the article without registering.
It's a lot of supposition around the ECML consultation, MRTF consultation, TRU etc. But also...
All that indicates is that they have finally sorted out the snagging issues on all sets. It doesn't indicate what happens in the future - I believe I've seen it mentioned that the lease on them only runs until 2023, so whether it gets renewed, and if so for how long, remains to be seen.
xotGD
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To paraphrase Ian Duncan Smith: The 68s are here to stay and they're turning up the volume!
Lots of questions.
The switch positions are for power changeover, you mean? I assume this would come with a pantograph indicator as well? Is the CAF/Stadler Multiple Working wiring capable of communicating the required information already? If it's just a new "data packet" over the same wiring, then there would at least be software changes required also?
An 88 is far too low powered on diesel for this, so would basically only be of use on fully-wired routes. And there are only 10 of them, and DRS need some for their other contracts, so chances of them appearing with TPE are not high.
There are only ten at the moment, but I'm pretty sure the plans are still in a drawer somewhere.
Presumably if designed for an 88 then 93s should be compatible too.
47827
Member
93s (at least as able as a 37) would be potentially fine for the Mk5s if the Manchester to York section was fully electrified as the remaining diesel legs would probably be manageable without big schedule changes. The electric bits would probably see a superior performance, although longer sits at stations/signals likely due to the crossing of too many bottlenecks. 88s would be somewhere closer to a single class 20, maybe even less able, so would make the schedules slower than Scarborough steam specials on the diesel bits so not a feasible option unless you had wires on the entire routes.
Not expecting to see either idea happen, but the 93 is at least not as much of a pipe dream if the wires ever get all the way over the Pennines and via Garforth.
Not expecting to see either idea happen, but the 93 is at least not as much of a pipe dream if the wires ever get all the way over the Pennines and via Garforth.
Yes indeed, as far as I remember, the old TPE franchise agreement did make mention of 88s as potential future power for the Mk 5As, and I too always thought it didn't entirely make sense; the time to switch the Mk 5As to electric traction would surely be when (please don't make me say "if"...!) the Diggle line is finally wired, but at that stage you'd really want a 125mph electric so that you could swap the 802s onto routes needing bimodal (Hull, Scarborough, Middlesbrough) and run the Mark 5As on the Newcastles (and Edinburghs if they still happen!). As I understand it the Mark 5As do make 'passive provision' (for want of a better term) for 125mph running, I should add.
Somebody would have to pay for them, and probably wouldn't be keen without being fairly certain of long-term use. Seems unlikely that they would spend the sums involved on locos for a small, non-standard fleet - more 800 units would be a far safer bet.
DRS also seems less interested in passenger work these days.
93 might be a possibility - but there's still the issue of it being a small, non-standard fleet. I would be surprised if TPE keeps them for more than a few years, although they might end up elsewhere.
Oh, completely agreed. Just pointing out that where there's a will (and someone willing to stump up the cash) there's a way.
Not seen it posted yet but “Greatest Hits Yorkshire Coast Radio” have put a video on their YouTube channel of an interview with TPE around measures to reduce noise on Scarborough depot (link below):
YouTube: Transpennine Express on Scarborough Depot noise disruption
Also linked is an article posted to their website with a summary here.
YouTube: Transpennine Express on Scarborough Depot noise disruption
Also linked is an article posted to their website with a summary here.
Changes soon to stop Scarborough train depot noise disruption
TransPennine Express say they are set to make some operational changes so the Nova 3 trains are not left at the Seamer Road facility overnight.
Sue Rawson
Author: Karen LiuPublished 28th Jun 2021
Last updated 28th Jun 2021
Residents in a part of Scarborough could finally get a good night's sleep as there won't be disruption from trains soon.
Those living in and around the TransPennine Express depot on Seamer Road have been complaining about the noise for more than a year now.
But a solution could be on the cards as the train company is set to make some operational changes so the Nova 3's aren't left at the facility overnight.
Paul Staples, Fleet Director at TransPennine Express, said:
"I'd like to say I'm sorry that it's taken so long to solve. We were making good progress and then the whole Covid pandemic hit and that cost us a lot of time in terms of getting our engineers from the specialist companies out to do the work, they couldn't during lockdown and that's why it's taklen so long so I am sorry about that.
"We have made good progress since and we've looked at a huge range of options; lots of things that we thought might be good, some technological changes on the depot, of the trains which proved to either be not possible or they just wouldn't make enough of a difference to protect the night's sleep that our residents have been complainging about.
"So what we're looking at now is to make operational changes to the way we use the Nova 3 trains. When the train arrives at Scarborough station, they will simply be shut down and then they'll be started up the next morning before they go as normal, they won't go down to the depot.
"What we've done is to change our plans in terms of how we use the trains, the drivers and the conductors to a different setup so that we don't have to go on the deopt for fuel and for toilet services, we can do that in Manchester".
He says they are looking to the make the change very quickly as soon as they can get the planning and consultation done.
Paul added:
"It'll take a very few weeks now. We have to go through a process which gets all the different train times uploaded into the National Railway timetables, as this is affecting all of our services between effectively Liverpool and Scarborough. We also have to seek the agreement and permission of partners like Scarborough Borough Council, to make sure everyone agrees this is right balance".
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
So is the depot being closed, then? Shame it'll I guess mean local job losses.
Someone probably did call it out at the time, but they were over-ridden. It's likely that the decision was taken by someone who's no longer working with/for TPE - eg a a 'consultant' who said the noise issue could be managed, or a manager who had certain things he/she had to achieve for his/her performance assessment and has now moved on to bigger and better things having pocketed their performance bonus. And everyone else is left to pick up the pieces afterwards. I've seen this kind of thing happen so many times with IT projects.
That may be true, but I suspect that it's simply that nobody appreciated at the time the quality of the noise that Class 68's put out. There have been complaints about the noise even from places that previously operated diesels.
I heard (well, more like felt) the sound of a Class 68 idling on platform 20 at Waverley from the top of the steps to Waverley Mall/Princes Street.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
At the time of the TPE franchise bid and award, there was still a plan to wire Manchester-York/Selby by about now, but that obviously didn't happen.
There was never a plan to wire to Middlesbrough/Scarborough/Hull (although Selby-Hull briefly had a First Group-proposed scheme which never took off).
An e-loco Nova 3 could work on the ECML or WCML routes prior to TP wiring, but they are covered by Nova 1/2 anyway.
TPE also had options on buying more Nova 2s (397s), and in 7-car sets if needed - but they weren't.
blackfive460
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It may well be that there is scope for each set to go on the depot during the day with time for fuel and tanking.
If you look at the current diagrams, each of the three sets has at least 90 minutes idle and in some cases more than one long wait in Scarborough during the course of the day.
How that will change in December remains to be seen but I'd guess that, bearing in mind that you only need to service 2 sets for the first two departures each morning, servicing during the day could be an ongoing possibility.
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