59CosG95
Established Member
So much for Modern railways' plan of turning them into LHCS-removal of the motors would almost give a free Chilternised Mk£ rake!
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Scotrail "Scenic Stock" discussion thread
- Thread starter 61653 HTAFC
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Interesting idea. Does the Jacobite accept standard National Rail tickets (similarly, did the Cambrian Coast steam before ERTMS put a stop to it?), as it seems to be shown in the ScotRail timetable for the West Highland line?
Converting them to DMUs or IC125-trailers I do not expect, but I really hope they find a future use (either as EMUs or push-pull convential LHCS, the driving vehicles in particular could be a good replacment for DVTs with ATW/GA).
How many diagrams are currently needed for all the lines the scenic DMUs will run? As Carlisle and Stranner seem to be included, I wonder if either the 158 or 156 fleet (48 units each) is big enough or whether some of both types will be required due to insufficient fleet size to have a uniform fleet of scenic DMUs.
I also wonder how much additional capacity is needed on the franchise and how many units can be cascaded elsewhere. 70 new EMUs and 27 IC125s is almost 100 extra trains for Scotland if they don't shed anything.
Last edited:
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
At risk of sounding overly optimistic, perhaps once the designs are known for the conversion of 158s, perhaps an add-on order for 10 or so units for Northern could be made for use on the S&C? Particularly if Abellio also retain the franchise and there's none of this 'no-growth' nonsense! 
HSTEd
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2011
- Messages
- 16,743
With the new EMUs and the HSTs coming on stream, does this mean we could expect the entire Class 156 fleet to become free?
Especially if the 158s are required for these scenic duties.
The 170s will likely stay with Scotrail and everything will kick down with the 156s dropping into England?
Especially if the 158s are required for these scenic duties.
The 170s will likely stay with Scotrail and everything will kick down with the 156s dropping into England?
WatcherZero
Established Member
- Joined
- 25 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 10,272
Not sure we can really tell yet, TS prefers new stock and a young fleet however I believe the 170's are quite expensive to operate and if Abellios low fares strategy depends on cost efficencies it might be the 170's jettisoned.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
No, it requires a special designated ticket for the Jacobite.
Altnabreac
Established Member
The routes that may stay as 156 operation are Maryhill, East Kilbride, Barrhead and Shotts. I guess you could switch them to 170 operation but presumably the leasing costs would be higher and the line speeds and loadings wouldn't really justify 170s.
When those routes are all down for electrification in 2019 - 2022 or so you'd suspect they'll just keep using 156s until electrification.
Can you buy it on the train/station on the day? If not, I think its a bit dodgy putting it in the ScotRail timetable even though it does have a footnote about advising reservations.
Sounds more like a job for a few Bo Ness Mk 1s. Top and tailed by a couple of
37s. No need to refurbish the coaches, the seats match the windows. Use at least one brake for the luggage and have a Mk 1 buffet in the set.
Sorted.
route:oxford
Established Member
- Joined
- 1 Nov 2008
- Messages
- 4,949
Class 26s (or 27s) would be just as appropriate.
al.currie93
Member
- Joined
- 27 Jun 2013
- Messages
- 381
I don't think we can throw away any option as to what these scenic trains will be yet... this franchise seems to have been full of (nice) surprises, so anything could be used!
So far we've seen the HSTs given a new lease of life which most people thought would not happen, and a return of steam to timetabled services, which even fewer thought would ever happen!
Based on the fact that we can expect the unexpected, I feel it will be Class 37s hauling 2 Mk2s, one converted to have a little outside 'balcony' with a DBSO at the rear...
So far we've seen the HSTs given a new lease of life which most people thought would not happen, and a return of steam to timetabled services, which even fewer thought would ever happen!
Based on the fact that we can expect the unexpected, I feel it will be Class 37s hauling 2 Mk2s, one converted to have a little outside 'balcony' with a DBSO at the rear...
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
I've seen them selling it before departure if there is capacity available, but next to the train not on the train - the Fort William ticket office doesn't sell them.
If you're thinking of trying to travel "on spec" I would advise against that and instead booking it in advance to be certain of travelling.
Photohunter71
Member
Scenic stock should be new build panoramic viewing coaching stock with a good buffet car and hauled by a locomotive with ETH capability and route cleared!
That may be what you'd want, but neither the ITT nor the winning tender specified that.
Techniquest
Veteran Member
I'm certainly looking forward to seeing what happens. I didn't know (or at least remember!) that the franchise was up for renewal, so imagine my surprise when I learned of all the changes, promises and news!
Exciting times ahead of us in the next few years, especially when you combine the changes due on the sleeper services. With IEPs, the new Thameslink stock, the 387s, new Tube trains and more all coming in the next few years it seems now is a great time to really get onto the scene!
As for the 158s done to the Scenic Lines standard for the S&C as well, that sounds like a brilliant idea!
Exciting times ahead of us in the next few years, especially when you combine the changes due on the sleeper services. With IEPs, the new Thameslink stock, the 387s, new Tube trains and more all coming in the next few years it seems now is a great time to really get onto the scene!
As for the 158s done to the Scenic Lines standard for the S&C as well, that sounds like a brilliant idea!
starrymarkb
Established Member
Or more realistically a Standard DMU with extra features for the tourists (ie roof windows etc). Then it can work normal services as well as the 'Scenic' services
Chris125
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Nov 2009
- Messages
- 3,076
I've seen no mention of roof windows anywhere - I'm afraid I see no reason to think it will involve anything more than refurbished 158s, with an interior layout better suited to carrying tourists.
Chris
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Refurbishing the 158s should be a priority anyway! They're really looking worn out now...
Helvellyn
Established Member
- Joined
- 28 Aug 2009
- Messages
- 2,013
Class 158's make most sense - Look at the units as built, where all seats aligned with windows (and certainly SWT's still do). Even with a mix of facing and airline seats they align.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
Did they? I'm fairly sure the WYPTE 10 have the original set up with seats, and there's definitely a few seats with a partial pillar.
Anyway I'm not sure roof windows are necessary, the sky is the same whether you're in Corrour or Cumbernauld. If an observation area was fitted, making the windows deeper would be more useful I'd have thought.
Techniquest
Veteran Member
I concur. Now if we were doing Liege to Luxembourg, roof-top windows would be much more useful! That said they would also be useful on the Highland Main Line, it can take some doing to take a photo encapsulating the whole scene from a 170 on the most scenic bits of that line!
I know that the 'scenic trains' are specified as part of the franchise agreement, but how many?
Is a route to go over completely, or will one train per day each way suffice, as used to happen on the Kyle line with the converted 101?
If it is one train per day requirement, then splitting/joining on the West Highland won't be an issue, the 'scenic train' will just do one return trip to Mallaig.
Is a route to go over completely, or will one train per day each way suffice, as used to happen on the Kyle line with the converted 101?
If it is one train per day requirement, then splitting/joining on the West Highland won't be an issue, the 'scenic train' will just do one return trip to Mallaig.
Last edited:
NotATrainspott
Established Member
- Joined
- 2 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 3,224
Class 158s for most scenic routes, 'refreshed' 156s on Stranraer and Dumfries/Carlisle. 158s will have perfect seat alignment, WiFi, power sockets, CET, CCTV and will be fully PRM-TSI compliant.
http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/tiki-download_file.php?fileId=219
Link doesn't work for me (not a 404 not found, but a site-specific error). Any idea how many 156s and 158s will be retained an how many cascaded? Also odd that the 156s don't mention TSI-PRM compliance (surely mandatory) or perfect seat alignment.
cf111
Established Member
- Joined
- 13 Nov 2012
- Messages
- 1,348
Does this work?
A 158 was pretty much designed for the seat layout shown in the document so getting a perfect seat alignment isn't particularly difficult in a 158, but you can not really say the same about the window arrangement on a 156. I'm a little surprised they are retaining 156's on the Dumfries route.
Yes, it did. Thanks.
No mention of whether it will be 156s or 158s for the West Highland, but sounds like the first refurbished 158 will be launched alongside the borders railway next year.
Suraggu
Member
IS based 158's are configured for Far North route including all seats lining up with windows and have plug sockets in First class so the WHL fleet will be was to refurb as its been done before, plus the low speeds along the Lin means they should cope rather well with the route.
- Status