‘The Crooked House’ pub near Dudley burns down.

[Bantamzen]

Oh there‘s loads of it here.

The “Nooks and Corners” column in Private Eye often has stories about old buildings (usually with some form of conservation prospect) but in the way of development often “go on fire”. There’s one such story in the latest issue regarding a 200 year old cottage in Framingham (Suffolk).

It was a big thing in my part of the world for a while. Many old mills mysteriously went up in flames around the time that proposals for their re-development were with the council. Now obviously I'm now saying anything suspicious has happened in this case, but I'm certainly thinking it loudly!

 

[Haywain]

It was a big thing in my part of the world for a while. Many old mills mysteriously went up in flames around the time that proposals for their re-development were with the council. Now obviously I'm now saying anything suspicious has happened in this case, but I'm certainly thinking it loudly!

I think it's fair to say that it does happen, but old empty buildings are also a favoured target of arsonists and other ne'er do wells. And, inevitably, most such buildings are empty because of the plans for them.

 

[Bantamzen]

I think it's fair to say that it does happen, but old empty buildings are also a favoured target of arsonists and other ne'er do wells. And, inevitably, most such buildings are empty because of the plans for them.

Yeah but when you happen to own a building and hire a JCB and block the access road off with earth just before a mysterious fire. And then you proceed to immediately knock it down before anyone can check what happened.... <scratches chin>

 

[Gloster]

“Monsieur Poirot, I don’t really think we are going to need the help of your little grey cells with this one.”

 

[duncanp]

It was a big thing in my part of the world for a while. Many old mills mysteriously went up in flames around the time that proposals for their re-development were with the council. Now obviously I'm now saying anything suspicious has happened in this case, but I'm certainly thinking it loudly!

Of course not.

The fire was started accidentally by Lord Lucan dropping a lighted cigarette.

And the "dirt" that was blocking the access road was in fact horse poo deposited by Red Rum and Shergar.

Nothing suspicious in that, is there?

 

[Haywain]

Yeah but when you happen to own a building and hire a JCB and block the access road off with earth just before a mysterious fire. And then you proceed to immediately knock it down before anyone can check what happened.... <scratches chin>

In this case, I agree that there are far too many coincidences. I was talking in more general terms.

 

[yorksrob]

In the more general sense, in my opinion a good pub is just as much "destroyed" if it's legally turned into a block of flats or a mini-supermarket as if it's turned into a pile of charred rubble.

 

[Busaholic]

Of course not.

The fire was started accidentally by Lord Lucan dropping a lighted cigarette.

And the "dirt" that was blocking the access road was in fact horse poo deposited by Red Rum and Shergar.

Nothing suspicious in that, is there?

 

[brad465]

What an amazing coincidence:

Crooked House owners' links to previous major fire

A huge fire broke out at a Buckinghamshire landfill site five years before the Black Country blaze.

www.bbc.co.uk

The owners of a Black Country pub which was gutted by fire and then demolished two days later experienced another huge fire on land they owned.
The Crooked House, near Dudley, had recently been sold to its new owners.
The cause of a previous blaze at Finmere landfill, Buckinghamshire in August 2018 was never established.
Adam Taylor is director of AT Contracting and Plant Hire Ltd, which, according to Land Registry documents, owns the Finmere site.
His wife, Carly, controls the company ATE Farms Limited, which bought the "wonky" Black Country landmark in July.
Mrs Taylor also currently controls AT Contracting and Plant Hire Ltd, which the BBC understands rented a digger a week before flames engulfed The Crooked House on 5 August.
Two days later the 18th Century building on Himley Road was flattened, leading to widespread protests.
Mr and Mrs Taylor have not replied to the BBC's requests for an interview.

Four hundred tonnes of waste caught fire at Finmere landfill on 4 August 2018.
Firefighters from Oxfordshire, Northamptonshire and Buckinghamshire worked through the night to extinguish it.

 

[A0wen]

I bet the French wouldn't stand for it.

Except French industries are being bought by non French companies - quite alot by British companies as it happens.... https://www.bitsfordigits.com/acquisitions/france-acquisitions

And specifically on beer - France's top beer brands are:

French Beer Brands: Complete Guide To "La Bière" in France

This page covers how to say beer in French (bière) and the most popular French beer brands including Kronenbourg 1664, Pelforth, Desperados, Adelscott, Page 24.

www.frenchlearner.com

Kronenbourg - owned by Carlsberg
Pelforth - owned by Heineken
Desperados - owned by Zlaty Bazant (Slovakian)
Adelscott - owned by Heineken

So I'm not sure what the French "wouldn't stand for" but clearly it's not their beer brands being bought out by non French companies......

 

[alex397]

Kronenbourg - owned by Carlsberg
Pelforth - owned by Heineken
Desperados - owned by Zlaty Bazant (Slovakian)
Adelscott - owned by Heineken

So I'm not sure what the French "wouldn't stand for" but clearly it's not their beer brands being bought out by non French companies......

I suppose a factor of that is that France isn’t really a ‘beer country’, of course much better known for it’s wine. So maybe not so much importance about who brews the beer. And the independent brewers in France tend to take a lot of influence from Belgium.

And to add to that, Zlaty Bazant is itself owned by Heineken.

Anyway, very off topic from the Crooked House, but I can’t help talking about beer!

 

[Ediswan]

And specifically on beer - France's top beer brands are:

Kronenbourg - owned by Carlsberg
Pelforth - owned by Heineken
Desperados - owned by Zlaty Bazant (Slovakian)
Adelscott - owned by Heineken

Tried that, once, never again. We were in the port at Toulon, waiting for a ferry to Corsica. It was the only beer on offer.

 

[A0wen]

I suppose a factor of that is that France isn’t really a ‘beer country’, of course much better known for it’s wine. So maybe not so much importance about who brews the beer. And the independent brewers in France tend to take a lot of influence from Belgium.

And to add to that, Zlaty Bazant is itself owned by Heineken.

Anyway, very off topic from the Crooked House, but I can’t help talking about beer!

Not the point - the issue is Yorksrob claimed the "French wouldn't stand for it" - suggesting the French don't allow their businesses or brewers to be bought by non French companies, which I demonstrated is not the case.

 

[yorksrob]

Not the point - the issue is Yorksrob claimed the "French wouldn't stand for it" - suggesting the French don't allow their businesses or brewers to be bought by non French companies, which I demonstrated is not the case.

Oh please, the French have (quite rightly) declared a yoghurt factory (danone) as part of the national culture, and quite rightly so


This disgusting over-commercialisation of the economy is not something the French would stand for.

Maybe as wine drinkers they've taken their eye off the ball, but otherwise when visiting France, one can be sure of sensible train services.

 

[SteveM70]

Oh please, the French have (quite rightly) declared a yoghurt factory (danone) as part of the national culture, and quite rightly so

Well, what is a yoghurt without a culture?

 

[yorksrob]

Well, what is a yoghurt without a culture?

Quite right too

What's region without its biere

 

[alex397]

Not the point - the issue is Yorksrob claimed the "French wouldn't stand for it" - suggesting the French don't allow their businesses or brewers to be bought by non French companies, which I demonstrated is not the case.

I thought I was agreeing with you and just adding another point.

 

[A0wen]

Oh please, the French have (quite rightly) declared a yoghurt factory (danone) as part of the national culture, and quite rightly so


This disgusting over-commercialisation of the economy is not something the French would stand for.

Maybe as wine drinkers they've taken their eye off the ball, but otherwise when visiting France, one can be sure of sensible train services.

Bit in bold - Evidence please.

 

[Bald Rick]

This disgusting over-commercialisation of the economy is not something the French would stand for.

They do it all the time! See Champagne. Or LVMH. Etc.

 

[Crossover]

Update released today

Crooked House: Owners of wonky pub ordered to rebuild

An enforcement order requires the building to be built back to what it was prior to the fire.

www.bbc.co.uk

The owners of The Crooked House pub have been ordered to rebuild "Britain's wonkiest inn" after it was destroyed last year in a suspected arson attack.
South Staffordshire Council has served an enforcement notice on the owners of the pub in Himley, near Dudley.
The council said it had engaged with the owners since the demolition but had reached a point where formal action was considered necessary.
It requires the building to be built back to what it was prior to the fire.

The owners have 30 days to appeal the notice and 3 years in which to rebuild the pub

 

[Cowley]

Update released today

Crooked House: Owners of wonky pub ordered to rebuild

An enforcement order requires the building to be built back to what it was prior to the fire.

www.bbc.co.uk

The owners have 30 days to appeal the notice and 3 years in which to rebuild the pub

Pretty pleased to hear this actually. Hopefully they’ll have various people inspecting the work and breathing down their necks every step of the way too!

 

[skyhigh]

What's to stop the company just going bankrupt and walking away? Can any sanctions be imposed on the actual people behind the company?

 

[ainsworth74]

It will be quite a fascinating project I suspect?How do you build a building that meets modern building regs whilst being that out of true?

 

[jfollows]

What's to stop the company just going bankrupt and walking away? Can any sanctions be imposed on the actual people behind the company?

I believe the notice has been served on people, not on a company, although I have not seen this explicitly spelled out. I think the two people are the same two previously arrested and bailed for arson.

EDIT Actually the notice was served on people and the company (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-68414524):

The pub is owned by ATE Farms Limited, and the enforcement notice was served to the company as well as its director George Adam Taylor, and former director Carly Taylor,

 

[Cowley]

It will be quite a fascinating project I suspect?How do you build a building that meets modern building regs whilst being that out of true?

Funnily enough we’re working on a place at the moment where we’re partly doing that. Although this is a renovation rather than a rebuild, we’re still putting the interior walls back with all the strange curves and bends that have taken root over the hundreds of years it’s been in existence. I guess The Crooked House will never be exactly the same but it’s surprising what you actually called do.

You can see here one of the leaning walls in the place we’re working on and then next to it one of the oak uprights that form the frame that’s really holding the house together now:

 

[najaB]

I wonder to what extent this order may turn out to actually be a cunning plan, even if by accident.

They either don't contest it, which basically amounts to an admission of liability, or they protest their innocence and present effectively their defense against an arson charge without involving the CPS.

 

[ainsworth74]

Huh fascinating!

Funnily enough we’re working on a place at the moment where we’re partly doing that. Although this is a renovation rather than a rebuild, we’re still putting the interior walls back with all the strange curves and bends that have taken root over the hundreds of years it’s been in existence. I guess The Crooked House will never be exactly the same but it’s surprising what you actually called do.

You can see here one of the leaning walls in the place we’re working on and then next to it one of the oak uprights that form the frame that’s really holding the house together now:
View attachment 153289

 

[Haywain]

I wonder to what extent this order may turn out to actually be a cunning plan, even if by accident.

They either don't contest it, which basically amounts to an admission of liability, or they protest their innocence and present effectively their defense against an arson charge without involving the CPS.

There were two separate events when the pub went - first there was arson, which gutted the building but that was followed by demolition. Whislt thw owners cannot (necssarily) be held responsible for the arson, they can certainly be held responsible for the demolition which was their decision and action. Therefore I cannot see that this order by the local authority can be seen as finding anyone in particular guilty of arson (and I doubt a business can be charged with arson).

 

[najaB]

Therefore I cannot see that this order by the local authority can be seen as finding anyone in particular guilty of arson (and I doubt a business can be charged with arson).

Note that I didn't say anything about them being found legally guilty of anything.

If they don't challenge the order then as far as the court of public opinion goes they might as well have started the fire.

If they do challenge it, then almost assuredly the question of how the fire started is going to come up, the answers to which are going to be of interest to the CPS for their criminal case.

 

[takno]

Note that I didn't say anything about them being found legally guilty of anything.

If they don't challenge the order then as far as the court of public opinion goes they might as well have started the fire.

If they do challenge it, then almost assuredly the question of how the fire started is going to come up, the answers to which are going to be of interest to the CPS for their criminal case.

From reporting at the time they don't seem like the sort of people who are especially interested in public opinion