10 years in prison for forgetting to renew a railcard?

[johncrossley]

And down the line we then see complaints about "mis-selling" of subscriptions, it being "impossible to cancel", etc. etc.

Better that than what we have now.

 

[najaB]

They could start automatically renewing your railcard like a subscription that you have to opt out of.

Nope. What about two-together railcards? How about card expiry? What about cards paid for at the station with cash? Forces railcards? People who move and don't get the physical card despite paying for it?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Jul 2023 ==

Utter crap. A database tracking ID number, Type and validity dates is trivial and fast. Give me a working week and I'd have one built to an enterprise performance level.

Which would only be as good as the information put into it. (See above)

 

[Starmill]

Utter crap. A database tracking ID number, Type and validity dates is trivial and fast. Give me a working week and I'd have one built to an enterprise performance level.

Yes, from a technical perspective it's superbly straightforward nowadays. It's just the willingness and interplay between organisations that's the problem.

 

[BayPaul]

The reason you don’t have a railcard is solely because you don’t trust the railway to remind you to renew it?

Amongst other things. A nice simple direct debit style railcard that didn't require thought, and that was automatically applied to all tickets without thought sounds good.

A bit of cardboard, that I need to try not to lose, and need to remember the expiry date, and if I get it wrong they will accuse me of fraud... Doesn't feel like something that would work for me. It means I take more journeys by car, as the economics of train at full price don't often add up.

 

[johncrossley]

Nope. What about two-together railcards? How about card expiry? What about cards paid for at the station with cash? Forces railcards? People who move and don't get the physical card despite paying for it?

If the details have changed, or a railcard is no longer required for whatever reason, then the user needs to cancel the subscription. If you pay for a subscription (for example, for a magazine) it is always your responsibility to notify that you have moved. They will send it to your old address otherwise. I presume that would happen in Germany.

 

[Krokodil]

Every trip usually, once when buying tickets, and again if encountering a revenue check en route. Home station Stapleton Road, trips 2 or 3 times a week on GWR to Cardiff, Weston-S-Mare, Bath, Bradford on Avon, Stroud, Gloucester, etc. It seems so obvious that if its presence is required to make a discounted ticket valid, that I should take a look at it before even going to the station. I really think people who don't much be really scatty.

If you are buying from a human then yes you will almost always be asked to show it (the main exception being if you or a relative are buying a ticket for travel at another time). Most people these days do not buy from a human, they buy online or from a TVM. RPIs are uncommon in most areas, so the only time that most seniors are asked for their railcards is if they encounter an unusually keen guard.

 

[Puffing Devil]

I agree. So I don't have a railcard as I don't trust the railway to remind me, but do have a car, as I get reminders for tax, insurance, MOT and service. Who loses out?

Free Email Reminder Service. Very simple: no signup nor login.

Schedule as many email reminders as you like for free. No signup: just tell us What you wish to remember, When to remind you and Where to email the reminder to.

www.kisreminder.com

 

[BayPaul]

Free Email Reminder Service. Very simple: no signup nor login.

Schedule as many email reminders as you like for free. No signup: just tell us What you wish to remember, When to remind you and Where to email the reminder to.

www.kisreminder.com

Lovely. When BR do that automatically then maybe I'll reconsider.

Edit.
Yes, I know it seems petty, but if that email service shuts down and I'm relying on it, then I'm to blame. It needs to be part of the service. And ideally include an auto renew option.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Lovely. When BR do that automatically then maybe I'll reconsider.

Nose and Face spring to mind.

Meanwhile, if you'll be waiting a long time for the resurrection of BR, never mind a reminder service.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Lovely. When BR do that automatically then maybe I'll reconsider.

Edit.
Yes, I know it seems petty, but if that email service shuts down and I'm relying on it, then I'm to blame. It needs to be part of the service. And ideally include an auto renew option.

Do you have a smartphone?

 

[BayPaul]

Do you have a smartphone?

Yes I do.
I also know that I have a tendency to miss due dates. So I don't set myself up to fail.
I have three annual bills that I actually have to remember to do something about. I can't avoid those. Something like a railcard that would be a nice to have isn't worth it, especially with the draconian penalties for getting it wrong.
I've used a two together railcard a couple of times when it saved more than the cost of the card on the first ticket, but frankly the awkwardness of the system means that I'd only do it again if the saving was really worth having.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Yes I do.
I also know that I have a tendency to miss due dates. So I don't set myself up to fail.
I have three annual bills that I actually have to remember to do something about. I can't avoid those. Something like a railcard that would be a nice to have isn't worth it, especially with the draconian penalties for getting it wrong.
I've used a two together railcard a couple of times when it saved more than the cost of the card on the first ticket, but frankly the awkwardness of the system means that I'd only do it again if the saving was really worth having.

So why can't you just put reminders in your phone?

 

[AlterEgo]

Amongst other things. A nice simple direct debit style railcard that didn't require thought, and that was automatically applied to all tickets without thought sounds good.

A bit of cardboard, that I need to try not to lose, and need to remember the expiry date, and if I get it wrong they will accuse me of fraud... Doesn't feel like something that would work for me. It means I take more journeys by car, as the economics of train at full price don't often add up.

You don't have a smartphone?

This seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. You are far more likely to be criminalised driving your car, and in fact much more likely to cause someone else harm in the process of misusing the road, even accidentally. About three million people commit road crimes every year and a quarter of a million of them end up in court.

 

[BayPaul]

So why can't you just put reminders in your phone?

Because I might miss them. My phone goes bing for a lot of reasons.
Why can't the appropriate railway organisation come up with an auto renew system if they want my custom?

You don't have a smartphone?

This seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. You are far more likely to be criminalised driving your car, and in fact much more likely to cause someone else harm in the process of misusing the road, even accidentally. About three million people commit road crimes every year and a quarter of a million of them end up in court.

I have to use the roads for most of my journeys. Rail would be nice to have for a few, but is far from essential, and for me, is so badly organised that it is rarely worth the hassle. The extra risk of those few extra journeys us negligible.
I find TfL to be the huge exception. In London the contactless system makes ticketing so simple that public transport is the default option.
And yes, I know that a railcard can be on my phone rather than a piece of card, but my experience of railway apps is generally poor, so I'm not sure it's worth risking.

 

[contrex]

If you are buying from a human then yes you will almost always be asked to show it (the main exception being if you or a relative are buying a ticket for travel at another time). Most people these days do not buy from a human, they buy online or from a TVM. RPIs are uncommon in most areas, so the only time that most seniors are asked for their railcards is if they encounter an unusually keen guard.

Stapleton Road has no ticket purchase facilities, so I invariably have to engage with a conductor/guard type person or else at the booth at Bristol TM to get a ticket.

 

[Hadders]

Utter crap. A database tracking ID number, Type and validity dates is trivial and fast. Give me a working week and I'd have one built to an enterprise performance level.

How are you going to make sure that every railcard that gets purchased is added to the databse?

Who enters railcards purchased at a station using a paper application form where the details are often incomplete? or would you have them sent somewhere central for them to be entered?

 

[Krokodil]

Stapleton Road has no ticket purchase facilities, so I invariably have to engage with a conductor/guard type person or else at the booth at Bristol TM to get a ticket.

And your situation is unusual. Both for having no TVM at the station (it's almost only request stops around here that don't), and for not buying online.

 

[Martin66]

Does it show in the home page?

 

[Krokodil]

That's not the home page I'm referring to. I mean the very first screen that comes up when you load the Trainline or Trainpal app. If you're using the RDG railcard app then your railcards will be listed in turn, but you have to open the app to do this, which you're not likely to routinely doing when purchasing a ticket.

 

[AlterEgo]

How are you going to make sure that every railcard that gets purchased is added to the databse?

Who enters railcards purchased at a station using a paper application form where the details are often incomplete? or would you have them sent somewhere central for them to be entered?

This is very common in France and Italy; you avail of the discount online and it’s like a membership card. You simply input the number when booking your ticket and get the discount. The idea that people would buy “railcards” at ticket offices would seem a bit mad to many outside these shores.

 

[tomuk]

How are you going to make sure that every railcard that gets purchased is added to the databse?

Who enters railcards purchased at a station using a paper application form where the details are often incomplete? or would you have them sent somewhere central for them to be entered?

Why are people filling in paper application forms in this day and age? Surely it would be quite straightforward for the booking clerk to enter the applicants details into said central database when producing the railcard on the ticket issuing system.

 

[Haywain]

Why are people filling in paper application forms in this day and age? Surely it would be quite straightforward for the booking clerk to enter the applicants details into said central database when producing the railcard on the ticket issuing system.

That's a surefire way of gathering inaccurate information.

 

[The exile]

With any other retailer who offers a discount card, they actually ask to see it at each transaction, or (online) demand its number.
They don't just take the customer's word for it, and then later penalise/prosecute them if they discover there was no valid discount card.

Most other retailers don’t have the issue of advance purchase. If my railcard expires on 31/7 and my ticket straddles that date (BoJ for example, or period ticket) how does “railcard number on ticket” work?

 

[35B]

Most other retailers don’t have the issue of advance purchase. If my railcard expires on 31/7 and my ticket straddles that date (BoJ for example, or period ticket) how does “railcard number on ticket” work?

Or my ticket purchase for my son in June for travel in august when he turned 18 in July.

 

[Par]

Our Two Together Railcard expired on Monday. This morning I got an email from The Trainline urging me to renew. Not perfect if I was travelling yesterday or today, but should prevent travellers having Railcards that are many months out of date like we see in this section of the forum.

 

[NIT100]

Our Two Together Railcard expired on Monday. This morning I got an email from The Trainline urging me to renew. Not perfect if I was travelling yesterday or today, but should prevent travellers having Railcards that are many months out of date like we see in this section of the forum.

My 16-25 Railcard expired two days ago. I had a reminder emails from national rail a week before saying it was going to expire and an email after the final date of validity to say it had expired.

I purchased this railcard in person at a station (Croy) and paid using card. The application form has an email address on, so was clearly put to use as a reminder without me opting in for marketing emails.

 

[island]

I should update that the ICO has issued new rules/policy/guidance around renewal reminders (since I posted above) and it now considers neutrally-worded renewal reminders not to be marketing emails for the purpose of PECR/GDPR.

 

[hawk1911]

Does no one else use electronic calendars?

I have two calendar entries for each important renewal, one is the date that I can renew (usually a month before expiry) and the other is the actual expiry date. For each entry a reminder pops up, on the due date, on my phone and my PC/tablet.

 

[Puffing Devil]

I should update that the ICO has issued new rules/policy/guidance around renewal reminders (since I posted above) and it now considers neutrally-worded renewal reminders not to be marketing emails for the purpose of PECR/GDPR.

Excellent news and common sense prevails!