1938 stock on the IoW ("It is old, we must get rid of it")

[westcoaster]

Love the island line & 1938 stock, although I'm a fan of the clickerty clack of 60ft rail, I honestly think a bit of cwr would do it a world of good, less vibration through the little suspension the 1938's have. Or is that part of the oldie woldie charm and nostalga.

 

[causton]

I was on the 1938 stock tour on the Piccadilly line the other week and the Island Line was brought up into discussion. Everyone hated the Island Line feeling that the units were 'not genuine' especially after the dinosaur livery. :roll:

 

[yummy125]

It should be made into a preserved line with a max speed of 45mph.

Does it really matter if they are 1930's stock, keep em running as it's so much fun lifting your feet off the floor so your bouncing between the stations.

 

[Manchester77]

What about the people who use the service to commute to work? I'd only support turning it into a heritage line if at the very lest the current levels of service are maintained.

Can't remember which (one of the Ryde stations) but which stop still has the ticket office that is still all NSE

 

[tbtc]

What about the people who use the service to commute to work?

This is the problem with these threads - people come up with touristy ideas (like the plan to convert Cornwall's branch lines to steam that someone had a while ago) and forget that people live there all year round - people use the Island Line to get to work as you say.

 

[Manchester77]

Oh yes on one of the IEP threads!

As I have never been on the IoW let alone used said trains what's patronage like off peak / peak. When a new fleet is bought it could be a good time to increase frequencies or future proof for further extensions, isn't there a plan to extend the line southwards?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

This talk of 1973 Stock... bear in mind that as the 1938 Stock in use is mostly from the later batches built, at the time it moved to the IoW it was roughly the same age that the 1973 Stock would be just after 2015 had the original plans for the deep tube stock replacement gone ahead...

 

[theboywho]

I should imagine that the electrification equipment will be up for renewal in the very near future. I wonder if there is any justification for expenditure on that sort of scale?

 

[transmanche]

I should imagine that the electrification equipment will be up for renewal in the very near future. I wonder if there is any justification for expenditure on that sort of scale?

If the timings fit, perhaps there might be some equipment they can recycle from the Basingstoke-Southampton route - when that is converted from DC 3rd rail to AC OHLE?

 

[tom1649]

Don't Stagecoach have responsibility for maintenance of the infrastructure? Very few major works projects seem to have taken place over the last few decades, with a 'make do and mend' approach being the norm. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Major renewals may still be the responsibility of the line's owners, Network Rail, of course.

 

[BestWestern]

Don't Stagecoach have responsibility for maintenance of the infrastructure? Very few major works projects seem to have taken place over the last few decades, with a 'make do and mend' approach being the norm. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Major renewals may still be the responsibility of the line's owners, Network Rail, of course.

I would very much doubt that there is really any call for 'major works projects' on the IoW to be honest. It is, I would think, a 'zero growth' franchise model or thereabouts, which is intended to just chug along and do what it does. Certainly the unorthadox aspect of the line seems to be very much promoted as part of it's tourist attraction. As for improvements, I would imagine the only realistic prospect of any major upgrade would probably be as some sort of island-wide light rail project; I really can't envisage a substantial heavy rail overhaul for the system.

I think you are correct regarding Stagecoach as the TOC having infrastructure responsibility. It would be interesting to know if there are any NR staff on the isalnd, presumably not? Or do they still provide signalling staff I wonder? Curious indeed!

 

[Manchester77]

Just wondering is the plan to extend the line through a tunnel to the mainline still around or is there not the demand?

 

[12CSVT]

Admittedly, it's brilliant that the 1938 stock still provides sterling service, it's just that sourcing spare parts is even more problematic now. Three of the 1938 stock trains (class 483) were scrapped for spare parts in 1996 or 1997. When those spare parts have become life expired, sourcing new ones (especially since they may have to be made to order) will become very expensive.

Even the current fleet of 5 operational units (483004/006/007/008/009) plus stored unit 483002 is probably more than what they need. The current timetable only requires two units to be in service on any one day.

 

[jopsuk]

Just wondering is the plan to extend the line through a tunnel to the mainline still around or is there not the demand?

That sounds like utter fantasy. Far more use would be a Ryde-Cowes line, and that's not likely to happen.

 

[AndyLandy]

This is the problem with these threads - people come up with touristy ideas (like the plan to convert Cornwall's branch lines to steam that someone had a while ago) and forget that people live there all year round - people use the Island Line to get to work as you say.

Quite. Indeed, I suspect the inverse is actually far more likely. I've seen it suggested a few times that investing in something like Parry People Movers to run a regular service along heritage railways like the Watercress line may well be desirable. Somehow I can see this being far more in-line with current plans than converting existing rail links to heritage status to be ran with kettles.

As for 3rd rail life expiry, it wouldn't actually surprise me if some of the lighter-used lines, such as the Island Line or the Lymington branch are simply de-electrified and ran with diesel stock.* Who knows, maybe the IoW will be the new home for all the spare Pacers that Northern electrification will do away with?

*This becomes even more likely when you realise that SWT already run a lot of Lymington services with diesel 158s, even though the line is entirely electrified!

 

[transmanche]

Who knows, maybe the IoW will be the new home for all the spare Pacers that Northern electrification will do away with?

I suspect they'll have to become a Pacer Cabriolet first!

 

[Muzer]

Quite. Indeed, I suspect the inverse is actually far more likely. I've seen it suggested a few times that investing in something like Parry People Movers to run a regular service along heritage railways like the Watercress line may well be desirable. Somehow I can see this being far more in-line with current plans than converting existing rail links to heritage status to be ran with kettles.

Indeed - a company called Go-Op (previously GoCo, previously Go! Cooperative) actually got rather close to doing this, but there was a technical fault with the train on the day, and shortly afterwards the deal fell through.

 

[RobShipway]

Could the A-Stock or C-stock currently being replaced by the S7 & S8 trains on the London Underground, replace the IoW trains.

 

[Buttsy]

Could the A-Stock or C-stock currently being replaced by the S7 & S8 trains on the London Underground, replace the IoW trains.

I think they're too tall for the Ryde tunnel - it is very much suited to tube stock only.

 

[Mikey C]

I think they're too tall for the Ryde tunnel - it is very much suited to tube stock only.

The A stock are (virtually) all scrapped, while the C stock deserve to be scraped

 

[Lockwood]

*This becomes even more likely when you realise that SWT already run a lot of Lymington services with diesel 158s, even though the line is entirely electrified!

Funnily enough, I've only ever seen it with 450s on.
I guess the advantage to keeping it electrified is to allow that extra capacity when needed

 

[joeykins82]

I think SWT use 158s on the Lymington route because they're only 2 cars and the 4 car sets are better used elsewhere. I suspect that Lymington will be operated by a 456 once SWT get their hands on them.

 

[Manchester77]

It won't. As others have said in other threads the 456s will be based at a London depot (Wimbledon iirc) which would require long ECS runs when it comes to maintenance and will be better utilised for 10 coach services as planned. Pity the 421s can't still be used on it

 

[AndyLandy]

It won't. As others have said in other threads the 456s will be based at a London depot (Wimbledon iirc) which would require long ECS runs when it comes to maintenance and will be better utilised for 10 coach services as planned. Pity the 421s can't still be used on it

It's almost as if we could use some more 450s down here. Or possibly some more 444s for the IC services to cascade inappropriately diagrammed 450s...

 

[Chris125]

In 2010 there was an article in The Railway Magazine which explored options for the Island Line, including building a single track from Smallbrook Junction to Ryde St Johns solely for the Isle of Wight Steam Railway, or even rebuilding Ryde Pier Head to allow said trains to run round there.

I believe the idea was, and remains, for the Brading Loop to remove the need for the double track between Smallbrook and Ryde St Johns - the Up line could then be used by the Steam Railway. I don't think there's been any serious suggestion of running steam through to the Pier Head.

I think they're too tall for the Ryde tunnel - it is very much suited to tube stock only.

This is arguably something of an urban myth - while the raising of the tunnel floor did limit vehicle height, apparently Rink Road Bridge remains the lowest structure on the line. What Ryde Tunnel has always limited is vehicle length, a result of the sharp s-bend alignment.

This explains how the Merseyrail 503's could be proposed as replacements for the Standard Stock when the latter were going through a period of poor reliability - though as tall as a 508 they are several metres shorter in length, similar to the 73ts.

Chris

 

[transmanche]

I think they're too tall for the Ryde tunnel - it is very much suited to tube stock only.

I'm a bit surprised that NSE didn't order a few extra Class 482 units (the NSE variants of the LU 1992 stock) when they were ordering replacement stock for the Waterloo & City line.

Then there was also a missed opportunity to pick up some 1983 stock trains when they were made redundant from the Jubllee line around 1998. (Although they always were a bit rubbish, the single-leaf door arrangement might have actually worked on the Island line.)

 

[Searle]

The 1938 stock is still standing well (it was on Wednesday!), there's no need to replace them. It'd cost a hell of a lot of money shipping them over to the IOW from London, so much so that I'd imagine it would ruin any cost benefits before it's even begun!

 

[paul1609]

Don't Stagecoach have responsibility for maintenance of the infrastructure? Very few major works projects seem to have taken place over the last few decades, with a 'make do and mend' approach being the norm. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Major renewals may still be the responsibility of the line's owners, Network Rail, of course.

Thats very much the flavour of secondary lines looked after by Network Rail in the South as well though.
Take a trip on Marshlink between Doleham and Hastings where the class 171 has to force its way through overgrown vegetation at the line speed of 40 mph.
Its a good job theres no opening windows these days.

 

[theboywho]

If the timings fit, perhaps there might be some equipment they can recycle from the Basingstoke-Southampton route - when that is converted from DC 3rd rail to AC OHLE?

The Basingstoke equipment is getting a bit ropey as well.

 

[Rational Plan]

There are several problems with the current Island, the chief ones are the equipment will need to renewed at some point and the irregular service. Currently while there are two trains an hour there is a 20 minute gap and then 40 minute gap.

For those on the Island it is an important local service, considering the poor local roads and especially important for transporting tourists.

There are have been a variety of proposals over the years for the Island line, and they revolve around doing something when someone bites the bullet and renews the infrastructure. The cheapest and most realistic is introduce a bit more dual track so that the service can become regular with a train every 30 minutes. Other ideas include extending the line to Ventnor again, the trackbed is clear, though one tunnel does have a some utility pipes in it. My favourite and most unlikely is to convert it to a tramway and rebuild it so 15 minute frequencies could be run.

Of course many fear that the line will linger on until someone says "oh dear we can't afford to run it anymore". But if they can turnaround and renew Blackpool tramway, why not the Isle of Wight.