2 minute silences

[plymothian]

Just read on GWR twitter feed a formal complaint that a TM has not upheld today's 2 minute silence, stating it has caused mass offence and the TM should be castigated for it.

What do you think about this?

I see it's very impractical to expect a silence to be held on a running train, especially if it coincides with a station call. And even if not, it is easy to forget that it is 11 o'clock.
On stations it is easier, and announcements were suspended nationwide for 5 minutes, but even then if a train is due to depart between 10.59 - 11.03, I don't think it should be stopped.

 

[NSEFAN]

Marking the silence at a station may be easier to do, but on a train it may not be so easy. Are you able to link to the original tweets?

 

[plymothian]

https://twitter.com/thomascoles/status/664397981014171648

 

[RichardKing]

Just read on GWR twitter feed a formal complaint that a TM has not upheld today's 2 minute silence, stating it has caused mass offence and the TM should be castigated for it.

What do you think about this?

I see it's very impractical to expect a silence to be held on a running train, especially if it coincides with a station call. And even if not, it is easy to forget that it is 11 o'clock.
On stations it is easier, and announcements were suspended nationwide for 5 minutes, but even then if a train is due to depart between 10.59 - 11.03, I don't think it should be stopped.

I do think, unless an announcement is absolutely crucial, train crew should carry out and respect the two minute's silence. I would actually use the PA system to tell all passengers that I am carrying out the two minute's silence and ask if they would join me in doing so.

As for not being aware of the time, a brief text/email sent to all train managers reminding them of the silence wouldn't hurt.

 

[theironroad]

Just read on GWR twitter feed a formal complaint that a TM has not upheld today's 2 minute silence, stating it has caused mass offence and the TM should be castigated for it.

What do you think about this?

I see it's very impractical to expect a silence to be held on a running train, especially if it coincides with a station call. And even if not, it is easy to forget that it is 11 o'clock.
On stations it is easier, and announcements were suspended nationwide for 5 minutes, but even then if a train is due to depart between 10.59 - 11.03, I don't think it should be stopped.

Why were announcements suspended for 5 minutes nationwide for a 2 minute silence?
I'm not sure why the 1 minute silence became a 2 minute silence anyway.

 

[Agent_c]

I don't think someone should be castigated or disaplined for not respecting it.

But perhaps some guidance that station calls should be made, subject to workload, outside of that 2 minute period (with a recommendation that the "Now arriving" message be made a little early to accommodate this) I think is reasonable.

Obviously in the event of an emergency or other time critical event calls should be made.

 

[theironroad]

I note the guy in that tweet said, in reply to GWR, that he couldn't think of the train manager having anything more important to do in his duty than respect those who lost their lives.

*shrugs*

 

[theblackwatch]

I note the guy in that tweet said, in reply to GWR, that he couldn't think of the train manager having anything more important to do in his duty than respect those who lost their lives.

*shrugs*

That just shows that some of the public have no idea of the role which some rail staff undertake - unless the chap thinks anything safety critical is less important? I would hope that, where possible, all staff would observe the silence, although I can appreciate that staff may not realise the time if they are busy with their duties - even a text/email reminder may not work if, for example, there is no signal at the time.

 

[londonbridge]

One question is whether the silence should be observed on Rememberance Sunday, or on the 11th November itself, or both.

On Sunday I came into London Bridge, got off the train and suddenly realised it was 10:57, so I stopped on the platform ready to stand in silence for two minutes. An announcement was duly made inviting those at the station to observe two minutes of silence. I, and the staff member who had just dispatched the aforementioned train, stood on the platform, whilst on the opposite platform a group of youths came down the stairs and on to the platform, talking amongst themselves as they did so. In the background was the sound of drilling, presumably from the engineers working on the station redevelopment. Did the drilling stop for two minutes? No, of course not.

 

[Clip]

Why were announcements suspended for 5 minutes nationwide for a 2 minute silence?
I'm not sure why the 1 minute silence became a 2 minute silence anyway.

Its always been 2 minutes hasn't it?

 

[zoneking]

The two minutes silence is not compulsory (yet).

 

[Bookd]

I would say, as an old codger, that I would not be concerned as this is not what I grew up with. Originally the silence was on the 11th, but my memory from the fifties to the eighties was that this was held on Remembrance Sunday, at the same time as the services at war memorials. The second silence on the 11th is a relatively new introduction, which arose at the same time as the idea that anyone appearing on television after mid October must wear a poppy or be subject to abuse. I do not lack respect for the military but those who have suffered loss should do so in their own way.

 

[theironroad]

One question is whether the silence should be observed on Rememberance Sunday, or on the 11th November itself, or both.

On Sunday I came into London Bridge, got off the train and suddenly realised it was 10:57, so I stopped on the platform ready to stand in silence for two minutes. An announcement was duly made inviting those at the station to observe two minutes of silence. I, and the staff member who had just dispatched the aforementioned train, stood on the platform, whilst on the opposite platform a group of youths came down the stairs and on to the platform, talking amongst themselves as they did so. In the background was the sound of drilling, presumably from the engineers working on the station redevelopment. Did the drilling stop for two minutes? No, of course not.

Until about 10 years ago, the silence was only really observed nationwide on the Sunday, but the British legion and the tabloids launched a mass campaign to reinstate the 11.11 silence as well, and with people dying in Iraq and Afghan it became more prominent.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Its always been 2 minutes hasn't it?

I'd have to check, but I'm pretty sure it was often only 1 minute.

 

[Clip]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/...ave-a-two-minute-silence-for-remembrance.html
Thought it was. Always done it for 2 since I was little and at memorial services.

 

[WelshBluebird]

These kind of things really get to me.
Surely part of the point is that many of the fallen fought to protect our freedoms to choose if we take part in these kind of things? Rather than fall to a regime that demanded its citizens to take part in state ceremonies etc.

Wearing a poppy and taking part in the 2 minutes silence is a matter of personal choice. Personally for me, I do both (and take part in silences on both days) however I do not think someone should be forced to!

That is before we even take into account the fact that during a working environment (and even more so a working railway) it isn't always possible to have 2 minutes of free time at 11am.

I will say though that it would be nice if those whose actions are visible / audible to the general public would take part (I do think remembering the fallen, even if it is just for a couple of minutes each year, is worthwhile and should be done) but at the same time in no way should people feel like they are forced to take part.

Of course this kind of topic pulls in all sorts of other arguments about foreign policy and the politicization of the poppy (and remembrance day) by various organisations too, but that is a different discussion!

 

[Haywain]

I'd have to check, but I'm pretty sure it was often only 1 minute.

In the late 1980s, we observed a 1 minute silence prior to the start of Sunday League football matches on the preceding Sunday. As far as I remember there was also a 1 minute silence on the 11th November, with the silence on Remembrance Sunday being observed at services only.

 

[deltic]

These kind of things really get to me.
Surely part of the point is that many of the fallen fought to protect our freedoms to choose if we take part in these kind of things? Rather than fall to a regime that demanded its citizens to take part in state ceremonies etc.

Wearing a poppy and taking part in the 2 minutes silence is a matter of personal choice. Personally for me, I do both (and take part in silences on both days) however I do not think someone should be forced to!

That is before we even take into account the fact that during a working environment (and even more so a working railway) it isn't always possible to have 2 minutes of free time at 11am.

I will say though that it would be nice if those whose actions are visible / audible to the general public would take part (I do think remembering the fallen, even if it is just for a couple of minutes each year, is worthwhile and should be done) but at the same time in no way should people feel like they are forced to take part.

Of course this kind of topic pulls in all sorts of other arguments about foreign policy and the politicization of the poppy (and remembrance day) by various organisations too, but that is a different discussion!

Couldnt agree more - it seems highly ironic that we now seem to suffer from the Poppy and 2 minute silence gestapo

 

[jopsuk]

https://twitter.com/thomascoles/status/664397981014171648

Looking up Realtime Trains, at 1100 this service was running late was pulling into Reading. The announcements would undoubtedly have been the required ones on approach to a major station with all sorts of possible connections. I think the Guard gets a pass on this.

 

[telstarbox]

The outrage brigade on Twitter should wind their necks in - it's an operational railway and there are silences and memorials at many stations as it is.

 

[Wolfie]

These kind of things really get to me.
Surely part of the point is that many of the fallen fought to protect our freedoms to choose if we take part in these kind of things? Rather than fall to a regime that demanded its citizens to take part in state ceremonies etc.

Wearing a poppy and taking part in the 2 minutes silence is a matter of personal choice. Personally for me, I do both (and take part in silences on both days) however I do not think someone should be forced to!

That is before we even take into account the fact that during a working environment (and even more so a working railway) it isn't always possible to have 2 minutes of free time at 11am.

I will say though that it would be nice if those whose actions are visible / audible to the general public would take part (I do think remembering the fallen, even if it is just for a couple of minutes each year, is worthwhile and should be done) but at the same time in no way should people feel like they are forced to take part.

Of course this kind of topic pulls in all sorts of other arguments about foreign policy and the politicization of the poppy (and remembrance day) by various organisations too, but that is a different discussion!

A well balanced post which echoes my own feelings.

I do think, unless an announcement is absolutely crucial, train crew should carry out and respect the two minute's silence. I would actually use the PA system to tell all passengers that I am carrying out the two minute's silence and ask if they would join me in doing so.

As for not being aware of the time, a brief text/email sent to all train managers reminding them of the silence wouldn't hurt.

If the train is nowhere near a stop I am inclined to agree. Of course it may be the automated announcements and not the Train Manager anyway....

If the train is near a station some of the folk displaying exactly the sort of dictatorial behaviour which British troops fought to oppose would say, because it makes them happy, that it's ok for a blind person to miss their stop due to no announcements....

 

[TheNewNo2]

I work in an LU office, and the guy on the PA/fire alarm tells us we are invited to join them in a silence at 11am. However they say that at roughly 1055, and there's no signal from them that it's actually 11am, so no one's quite sure when to shut up...

 

[TUC]

I agree in terms of not doing non-vital announcements ( although, if they're not vital, why do them at any time?) but announcing that a station is approaching is vital. What does the complainant expect-for those unfamiliar with the line or visually impaired to do-just shrug their shoulders if they miss their stop and stay on to the next station?

 

[Domh245]

no longer relevant

 

[6Gman]

It's not clear from the twitter feed whether he's complaining about:

a) the TM making an announcement between 1100 and 1102

OR

b) the TM failing to announce the start and finish of the silence.

Either way, a ludicrous over-reaction. If the matter is so important to him why is he on a train and not attending a service somewhere?

 

[TUC]

Just read on GWR twitter feed a formal complaint that a TM has not upheld today's 2 minute silence, stating it has caused mass offence and the TM should be castigated for it.

What do you think about this?

I see it's very impractical to expect a silence to be held on a running train, especially if it coincides with a station call. And even if not, it is easy to forget that it is 11 o'clock.
On stations it is easier, and announcements were suspended nationwide for 5 minutes, but even then if a train is due to depart between 10.59 - 11.03, I don't think it should be stopped.

Why were announcements suspended for 5 minutes nationwide for a 2 minute silence?
I'm not sure why the 1 minute silence became a 2 minute silence anyway.

I was thinking the same thing at work today. I'm sure it always used to be a one- minute silence. The fact that it is now both on the Sunday and on the 11th is frankly ludicrous. Yes, have a minute's silence by all means, but doubling it up actually diminishes its impact and makes it look tokenistic.

 

[crispy1978]

My personal opinion:

If it can possibly be observed, then everyone should be given the option to do so.

However, sometimes I fully appreciate that this isn't always possible, and essential duties have to take precedent. This isn't just in the rail industry, but applies in many walks of life.

Whether, in the rail industry, some form of mutual agreement could be reached as to what general practice would be, I'm not sure.

 

[fowler9]

I work directly with the armed forces and although I was on leave this week I am aware that there were forces personel who insisted on continuing their phone calls during the 2 minutes silence. Bit shocked at that.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I work directly with the armed forces and although I was on leave this week I am aware that there were forces personel who insisted on continuing their phone calls during the 2 minutes silence. Bit shocked at that.

Forces can do what the hell they like - when you've seen your best mate being blown up, shot or burned alive and you think about it every single day, what they do on 11/11 is completely inconsequential.

The railway has a number of ex-military and reservists serving, I wouldn't dare to criticise anybody on the railway for not having held a 2 minute silence, because the response is quite likely come back and make you look really stupid and feel really awkward.

 

[fowler9]

Forces can do what the hell they like - when you've seen your best mate being blown up, shot or burned alive and you think about it every single day, what they do on 11/11 is completely inconsequential.

The railway has a number of ex-military and reservists serving, I wouldn't dare to criticise anybody on the railway for not having held a 2 minute silence, because the response is quite likely come back and make you look really stupid and feel really awkward.

Hold on there. I have family and friends in the forces and they all mark the occasion well. I have been tied up and held at knife point in my own house, I have also been assaulted in the street, left in a pool of my own blood after seeing my mate being beaten until you couldn't recognise him. I still think I should do what I can to recognise the silence. I am just saying that I don't think members of the armed forces should really, in all honesty, make none essential phone calls at that particular time. I also don't think people should jump to take offence that some things in life are very difficult to stop on a sixpence such as train operations.

 

[30907]

I would say, as an old codger, that I would not be concerned as this is not what I grew up with. Originally the silence was on the 11th, but my memory from the fifties to the eighties was that this was held on Remembrance Sunday, at the same time as the services at war memorials. The second silence on the 11th is a relatively new introduction

11 November was specifically Armistice Day, and logically commemorates WW1 specifically. This seems particularly appropriate in 2014-2018. However the modern version doesn't make that distinction.

The public commemoration was moved soon after WW2 and renamed Remembrance Sunday, because it was no longer just about WW1. It commemorates the dead of all (modern) wars - not just military (and not just "allied").

The official silence has always been 2 minutes (is a maroon still fired in Greenwich Park?).