379's

[YorkshireBear]

What's the progress on these units?

Also i have very limited knowledge of the area they will operate or what they will be doing at all.

What units are they replacing? and where will they go. or is it a new service?

 

[jopsuk]

They're for the Stansted Express- operating out of Liverpool Street. They more than displace the 317/7 and /8 fleets currently theoretically dedicated to the task (plus the /6 and even /5s that sometimes turn up whilst the Stan Ex units go on jollies to Cambridge and beyond). They'll mean that services will be strengthened- I think all will be able to run 8 car, with some 12 car.

They will be used for some other services on the Cambridge line, for reasons that I think are mainly to do with "pork barrel politics". They're not needed for the Cambirdge services, as the displaced 317s will be strenghtening those services.

 

[DjU]

What's the progress on these units?

They've been under construction for a few months now.

The first one was spotted on the test track last week.

I believe there is a meant to be a day to show them off to the rail press in next few weeks. Not heard if thats still the case.

 

[387star]

A great shame a massive order can't be placed equipping the NXEA franchise with a new electric fleet like Southern have largely done

 

[swt_passenger]

A great shame a massive order can't be placed equipping the NXEA franchise with a new electric fleet like Southern have largely done

The SN/SE/SWT Mark 1 fleets had to be replaced as the politicians decided it had to happen for safety purposes.

The SN/SE/SWT fleets of similar age to the 315s, 317s etc, ie 455s, haven't been replaced, and won't be for some time - they've all got probably another 10 years life remaining.

 

[ainsworth74]

The SN/SE/SWT Mark 1 fleets had to be replaced as the politicians decided it had to happen for safety purposes.

That particular decision is going to come back to bite us in the backside in about 20 or 30 years when we suddenly have a very large number of units all the same age all approaching the end of their useful lives at the same time.

 

[jopsuk]

Aye- the Great Eastern/LTS slam door fleets (barring the intercity trains) got replaced about the same time as the Southern Region slammers- with the 360s on the GE, and the uniform fleet of 357s on the LTS.

Whilst the "PEP" fleets (313/314/315/507/508) are perhaps in need of replacement, the 20m Mark 3 fleets (317/318/319/320/321/322/455/456) are OK, especially with refurbed interiors.

 

[Southern Dvr]

But the 455/456 et al stock is probably too old for London! Remember London always gets the new stuff! Now the class 378s are running these will form the basis for the 455/456 replacement. The 455/456 will then head off to Merseyside to replace the even older 507/508 stock!

There was nothing mechanically wrong with the slammers, it was just the crashworthiness that caused concern after Clapham and Cannon St. The 442s are basically slammers with 'safer' bodyshells and these are (aside from Southerns modifications!!) very good units!

 

[jopsuk]

There was already a "high density" Electrostar before the 378- the 376s, as used by SouthEastern. Whilst Southern would probably go for a 376 or 378 to replace the 455/456 fleets, I can't see SWT being interested in them- I'd have thought they'd prefer something similar (with sliding doors, high density layout) but from Siemens to match the bulk of their fleet.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Which is, of course, nothing to do with the Stansted Express tock.

 

[Z12XE]

379001 was unveiled today up in Derby

 

[SouthEastern-465]

Theres a pciture of one in this months or last months RM, they just look like another 'Electrostar'!

 

[ainsworth74]

they just look like another 'Electrostar'!

Well that would probably be because they are another Electrostar

 

[387star]

Apart from different window design like the 172s

 

[starrymarkb]

But the 455/456 et al stock is probably too old for London! Remember London always gets the new stuff! Now the class 378s are running these will form the basis for the 455/456 replacement. The 455/456 will then head off to Merseyside to replace the even older 507/508 stock!

There was nothing mechanically wrong with the slammers, it was just the crashworthiness that caused concern after Clapham and Cannon St. The 442s are basically slammers with 'safer' bodyshells and these are (aside from Southerns modifications!!) very good units!

London gets the new stuff? Lets see, Class 313s on Moorgate runs are the oldest passenger stock on the UK Mainland. Plus it wasn't that long ago when London had CEP stock from the 50s running.

 

[MCR247]

I'm sick of getting involved in this argument, it really does wind me up. Can't we have a discussion without this debate cropping up all of the time

 

[asylumxl]

The SE had a very old average age of stock, hence it needed replacing sooner, simple.

 

[90019]

Remember London always gets the new stuff!

So when the north was getting Sprinters and Pacers, were you complaining about the north getting all the new stuff?
Will you be complaining about that when they're getting replaced and the south has older stock?

 

[tbtc]

So when the north was getting Sprinters and Pacers, were you complaining about the north getting all the new stuff?
Will you be complaining about that when they're getting replaced and the south has older stock?

I won't be complaining when the Sprinters and Pacers are replaced from the north of England...

...then again, I only expect to live for another fifty years, so I probably won't be around to see it

 

[Railway]

First class 379 shown to press.

http://rail-news.com/2010/10/13/national-express-reveal-their-class-379-electrostar-to-the-press/

 

[90019]

I won't be complaining when the Sprinters and Pacers are replaced from the north of England

You know what I mean

 

[Voyager 2093]

Apart from different window design like the 172s

That's because the 379s have gasket glazed windows, meaning there are separate units for each window compartment making it easier to replace.Same with the 378s and 172s. Whilst the other Electrostars have Bonded glazing which is basically one great window unit.

 

[klewer]

Great, another class of units to add to the mix out of Liverpool Street that probably won't be able to couple to or be rescued by anything else.

Can see the West Anglia mainline descend into chaos as and when one of these fails in service.

 

[jopsuk]

First class 379 shown to press.

http://rail-news.com/2010/10/13/national-express-reveal-their-class-379-electrostar-to-the-press/

bit of an effort shipping it abroad for testing and back? Shows the limitations of test track facilities in the UK? Not that the testing Siemens did on the 380s, on their factory test circuit, seems to have found all the issues. Still, really cheaper/better than using Old Dalby?

 

[tbtc]

You know what I mean

Yeah, sorry for being cheeky

However, I can't see any "big bang" like we had in the 1980s. We may get a trickle of 319s (if new lines are wired), we may get a handful of new units like 185s, but I think it'll be a long long time until the last Pacers are abolished.

Whilst I don't want to go over the "grass is always greener" argument, I do want to point out that EMUs age much much better than DMUs (due to the different mechanics involved). A twenty year old EMU will have aged a lot lot better than a twenty year old DMU.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Sorry, am new here so not aware of what debates have been had before!

London until 2005 had the oldest stock, it is true. Now however, we have lost the older busses, we are loosing the older tube stock (A60, C68, D78) the 150s are off to FGW, the 313s on Watford D.C/North London Line have gone, Cl.321s have pretty much all gone from the WCML now. So, yes the Moorgate cl.313s are some of the oldest trains going, but they are only slightly older than me!

 

[Simon Poole]

Are the Class 379's replacing the 317's if so, where the Class 317's heading? or are they staying with National Express East Anglia?

 

[387star]

317s are just being transferred to other west anglia routes to boost capacity (dramatically I imagine) and to work alongside 379s when needed

 

[sprinterguy]

Great, another class of units to add to the mix out of Liverpool Street that probably won't be able to couple to or be rescued by anything else.

Yup. Don't you just love the way privatisation has completely ruined interchangability?

So when the north was getting Sprinters and Pacers, were you complaining about the north getting all the new stuff?

At the same time as the north was getting Pacers and Sprinters, Network Southeast was receiving a big delivery of 319s and 321s, and having a shiny new Thameslink network rolled out. I think a fair bit of the reason us impoverished northern folk are so bitter about all the investment in London's transport network is because it takes place on a continuous rolling programme, which is completely understandable and necessary given the sheer size of London's commuter rail network and the vast number of passengers it shifts, whilst up north investment in trains seems to come in "big bang" improvements every 30 years or so, with everything just getting older and more worn out inbetween.

Good to see a 379 rolled out. Now, how long will it actually be before they bed down in service with all their teething troubles attended to? :roll:

 

[swt_passenger]

...The 442s are basically slammers with 'safer' bodyshells and these are (aside from Southerns modifications!!) very good units!

The 442 bodies are derived from 23m Mark 3 coaches, this is pretty obvious if you compare them with an HST carriage or other Mk 3 LHCS.

I don't think many people wouldn't describe them as 'basically slammers' even if the traction system is from that generation of train...

 

[tbtc]

Yup. Don't you just love the way privatisation has completely ruined interchangability?

A bugbear of mine.

Imagine if the EMUs around London were just three types:

85mph with "commuter" doors
100mph with "end" doors
125mph with "end" doors (smaller fleet)

Make all three classes inter-working, put corridor connections on the 85/100 stock, then we'd avoid a *lot* of problems