5x Class 153 conversion to bike and baggage vans for Scotrail

[JModulo]

fair enough, whats your source?

Certain people in the industry I do not wish to name.

 

[marks87]

You could both be right.

Might they be sandwiched between the 156s as far as Crianlarich, before ending up on the back of the Oban portion after the split? That allows for easy access from both portions for passengers who are only going to (stations to) Crianlarich.

Would there also be any technical or operational reason to avoid the 153 leading the full set?

 

[JModulo]

You could both be right.

They might be sandwiched between the 156s as far as Crianlarich, before ending up on the back of the Oban portion after the split.

Sounds more sensible. A main issue being you can't physically put a 153 in the middle of alot of the 156s due to them being bolted together.

 

[1D53]

They've never operated in Scotland. How different are they to a 156, though? Can't be much in it.

It's a 90 minute conversion course on most TOCs from 156 to 153.

 

[Mathieu]

You could both be right.

Might they be sandwiched between the 156s as far as Crianlarich, before ending up on the back of the Oban portion after the split? That allows for easy access from both portions for passengers who are only going to (stations to) Crianlarich.

Would there also be any technical or operational reason to avoid the 153 leading the full set?

I reckon they'll only be on the services that go directly to Oban without splitting for Crianlarich, just my opinion though. As they will have 2 sets with 153s that'll run to Oban I believe they'll be on the 10:34 and 16:36 MON-SAT GLQ to OBN which also form the 14:41(16:11 on SAT) and the 20:36 which also run straight back to GLQ without attaching any other services at Crianlarich.

 

[TheEdge]

So they are definitely keeping both cabs? I'd kind of assumed they would loose the small cab to gain a full sized vestibule at both ends and just retain the large cab for driving from.

 

[scotraildriver]

The WHL timetable is about to undergo a revamp which may result in seperate portions to Oban and Fort William. The 153s cannot be added to the busiest services at present as they run 6 car Glasgow to Crianlarich which is the maximum permitted. The 12.11 from Oban is one of the most overcrowded so would be a good candidate for a 153, but would need to run to Queen St without joining. The 153s will NOT be in the middle of a 156, the 156s all have permanent bar couplings so would need major work and would remove any flexibility. They will be added and removed as required. They will be used exclusively on Oban services initially then Kyle and Far North routes.

 

[Mathieu]

The WHL timetable is about to undergo a revamp which may result in seperate portions to Oban and Fort William. The 153s cannot be added to the busiest services at present as they run 6 car Glasgow to Crianlarich which is the maximum permitted. The 12.11 from Oban is one of the most overcrowded so would be a good candidate for a 153, but would need to run to Queen St without joining. The 153s will NOT be in the middle of a 156, the 156s all have permanent bar couplings so would need major work and would remove any flexibility. They will be added and removed as required. They will be used exclusively on Oban services initially then Kyle and Far North routes.

I hope the reshuffling of the timetable adds a later train from Glasgow to Oban, latest one out of Glasgow is 18:23 whereas the lastest out of Oban is 20:36. I hope there will soon be a ~20:30 service from Glasgow to Oban

 

[Highlandspring]

Presumably they'll avoid the small cabs being on the outer end where possible, but they unavoidably will end up that way round occasionally.

“They” will not be particularly bothered about that. Why would they be?

 

[scotraildriver]

I hope the reshuffling of the timetable adds a later train from Glasgow to Oban, latest one out of Glasgow is 18:23 whereas the lastest out of Oban is 20:36. I hope there will soon be a ~20:30 service from Glasgow to Oban

Given how utterly dead the 20.36 is I would seriously doubt it. The most passengers I've ever had on that train in the middle of summer was 13. It would also result in an additional unit overnighting in Oban to do what in the morning? The 05.20 certainly doesn't warrant a 4 car. Despite claims of overcrowding on forums such as this, the only train with real issues is the 12.11 from Oban. The Fort William is rarely full and I've never seen standing passengers on a northbound service, unless the train is short formed or one cancelled.

 

[Mathieu]

Given how utterly dead the 20.36 is I would seriously doubt it. The most passengers I've ever had on that train in the middle of summer was 13. It would also result in an additional unit ovwrnighting in Oban to do what in the morning? The 05.20 certainly doesn't warrant a 4 car.

The 18:23 is always packed full of people returning to Oban after a day out in Glasgow. Although the 20:36 may be quiet I would say it’s a fair assumption that if there was a ~20:30 service from Glasgow to Oban it would have a decent amount of people on board

 

[craigybagel]

Would there also be any technical or operational reason to avoid the 153 leading the full set?

You'll have to fit RETB in order for them to lead.

AIUI they aren't being "sandwiched" but will be on one end. Presumably they'll avoid the small cabs being on the outer end where possible, but they unavoidably will end up that way round occasionally.
.

“They” will not be particularly bothered about that. Why would they be?

Indeed, as far as "they" are concerned there is nothing wrong with the small cab, and in terms of operating other then some if the circuit breakers and lighting controls, there isn't a whole lot missing from the small cab that you'll find in the big one.

And as I've pointed out earlier, if you're in the driving seat there's actually better legroom in the small cab then in the big!

 

[scotraildriver]

The 18:23 is always packed full of people returning to Oban after a day out in Glasgow. Although the 20:36 may be quiet I would say it’s a fair assumption that if there was a ~20:30 service from Glasgow to Oban it would have a decent amount of people on board

The 18.23 is significantly quieter than it used to be since the 16.37 was introduced. Its never "packed".

You'll have to fit RETB in order for them to lead.

The RETB will come from the 5 156's that went to Northern. Its not been removed yet.

 

[Mathieu]

The 18.23 is significantly quieter than it used to be since the 16.37 was introduced. Its never "packed".

Had the 18:23 out of Oban last Saturday, I can assure you it was packed

 

[scotraildriver]

Had the 18:23 out of Oban last Saturday, I can assure you it was packed

Until where? Taynuilt?

 

[craigybagel]

The RETB will come from the 5 156's that went to Northern. Its not been removed yet.

Ah, I see. It's nice to see a sensible joined up plan for a change!

 

[marks87]

You'll have to fit RETB in order for them to lead.

A 153 will presumably lead at some point, though, either to or from Oban.

I was just wondering if there might be a reason for ScotRail not wanting them in front of a pair fo 156s. I can't think of one, but you never know.

 

[InOban]

In an interview in this week's Modern Railways it's stated that the 153 isn't gauge cleared to Fort William.
And that the 158 is still a franchise commitment, although I agree it may never happen.
I've been repeatedly told by people who have occasion to use the early Southbound train that it can get full and standing, but only of course within the Glasgow area - remember it has calls in the Maryhill area.
BTW, last Sunday (hardly peak season) the 12.11 left Oban with at least 110 passengers. Fortunately it had four coaches, which isn't possible once this train has a FW portion..
I'm sure that scotraildriver is better informed, but my understanding is that at the start of the day the Maryhill services are operated by 156s. Between 8 and 9 a number of 158s arrive from Perth and Fife, and these operate some of the Maryhill services during the day, releasing 156s for the WHL, such as the 10.34 to Oban which forms a Maryhill service as soon as it gets back.

 

[43096]

Certain people in the industry I do not wish to name.

Alex Hynes stated it in Modern Railways a few months ago. Fleet deployment is planned as 2 West Highland, 2 Far North/Kyle, 1 maintenance spare.

I’ve no idea why this myth about them going in the middle of sets is being repeated despite the evidence to the contrary.

 

[380101]

I’ve no idea why this myth about them going in the middle of sets is being repeated despite the evidence to the contrary.

Indeed a myth! Having spoken with one of the Driver Trainers involved in the planning for training on the 153s, the small cab end will be coupled onto one end of a 156.

 

[43096]

Indeed a myth! Having spoken with one of the Driver Trainers involved in the planning for training on the 153s, the small cab end will be coupled onto one end of a 156.

Or 158 north of Inverness!

 

[Maxfly]

158s have been abandoned on the WHL due to platform issues with the doors.

Not the case, gauge clearing progressing in tandem with that for the 153’s.
Never say never of course but it was part of the franchise commitment and work is still ongoing.

 

[alangla]

They've never operated in Scotland.

They have... Back in Arriva Trains Northern/Northern Spirit days, there was a Leeds - Settle - Carlisle train that extended to Glasgow Central via the WCML. Usually it was a 158 but one day it passed me leaving Central and was formed of a pair of 153s. No idea of the date, but probably around 2000

 

[Mathieu]

In an interview in this week's Modern Railways it's stated that the 153 isn't gauge cleared to Fort William.
And that the 158 is still a franchise commitment, although I agree it may never happen.
I've been repeatedly told by people who have occasion to use the early Southbound train that it can get full and standing, but only of course within the Glasgow area - remember it has calls in the Maryhill area.
BTW, last Sunday (hardly peak season) the 12.11 left Oban with at least 110 passengers. Fortunately it had four coaches, which isn't possible once this train has a FW portion..
I'm sure that scotraildriver is better informed, but my understanding is that at the start of the day the Maryhill services are operated by 156s. Between 8 and 9 a number of 158s arrive from Perth and Fife, and these operate some of the Maryhill services during the day, releasing 156s for the WHL, such as the 10.34 to Oban which forms a Maryhill service as soon as it gets back.

The reason the 12:11 was so busy is due to that being the first train out on a Sunday, I hope they change that if there’s a reshuffling of the timetable

 

[InOban]

I quite agree that there is a need for an earlier train. It's silly that you can come to Oban for the day, with over five hours in Oban, but if you want to go to Glasgow on a Sunday, you have less than three. Would depend on more Oban crews volunteering for Sunday shifts.

 

[scotraildriver]

It wouldn't need volunteers, just an additional booked Sunday shift.

 

[Rob F]

So they are definitely keeping both cabs? I'd kind of assumed they would loose the small cab to gain a full sized vestibule at both ends and just retain the large cab for driving from.

Loose?

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Loose?

My literal mind had an image of a disembodied cab floating wraith-like down the tracks back to Glasgow. (As in the old Westerns when someone “loosed the horses” and they all galloped away together).

 

[big all]

Loose?

cab to cab not in use for driving

 

[matchmaker]

The WHL timetable is about to undergo a revamp which may result in seperate portions to Oban and Fort William. The 153s cannot be added to the busiest services at present as they run 6 car Glasgow to Crianlarich which is the maximum permitted. The 12.11 from Oban is one of the most overcrowded so would be a good candidate for a 153, but would need to run to Queen St without joining. The 153s will NOT be in the middle of a 156, the 156s all have permanent bar couplings so would need major work and would remove any flexibility. They will be added and removed as required. They will be used exclusively on Oban services initially then Kyle and Far North routes.

Do some of the 6 car services originate in Alloa? I see one every morning passing through Stirling at about 0730.