A little bit of advice please

[IanPooleTrains]

Now, all I want here is a bit of advice and your input into this and I want to know what your feelings are on this.

Now, anyone that has seen me on stations knows I like to film trains, I'm a trainspotter and proud of it and recently, I have been doing the majority of filming at Cannock station due to being on a course that the JOb Centre put me on.

Now, today there was an incident between myself and the driver of the 12:18service from Birmingham New Street to Rugeley Trent Valley.

Now the train stops where it usually stops on the station and the driver pokes his head out of the window and tells me, I'm not going to use the exact verbage because you never know who is reading, to get back up the ramp that I was on. I politely reply that I was well within the confines of where I should have been and even pointed out where the sign was. He continued to tell me to get back up the ramp until it was time to go and I was doing my very best to stay polite with him. Luckily for myself and himself, I stayed polite and filmed the train out.

Now, below I have put some pictures up of Cannock station including the ramp layout, what the sign actualy says and where I was standing as well as a picture of the train leaving.

So, I put this to you guys out here. Was I in the right for standing where I was standing and following the guidelines of the station or was he right for his stance that I shouldn't have been standing there?

Now I do want to point out that this is not going to be a witchhunt, I am not out to criticise any driver, I am not out to criticise any point, I just want to know what you guys seriously think please

 

[sonic2009]

By looking at the Pictures, I'm going to come to the conclusion that :

You were on the ramp, but still close to the track's edge.

But im not going to take anyone's side.

 

[nr_signaller]

If its not meant to be a witchhunt or to critcise any driver why post the exact details of the train??

 

[IanPooleTrains]

If its not meant to be a witchhunt or to critcise any driver why post the exact details of the train??

Because I am presenting you with facts sir

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It looks to me like the signs have been placed too far along; they should be located on the platform just before the ramp...

the white line across at the top of the ramp is the public limit.

 

[Ivo]

I think you *may* have a case, but I'm not certain. As Sonic says, how close to the track were you? You do seem to be within the passenger area though (although Peter's point about the white line is a fair one).

One odd question though. Why does almost every paragraph in your post (barring one) begin with "now"? It sounds like a rant, which does not match your points about trying to not criticise people!

 

[HST Power]

I've seen hundreds of spotters standing on the ramps. As far as I can tell, you were within the designated zone, and therefore, you weren't in the wrong.
You didn't go past that 'Do Not Trespass On The Railway' post, and so long as you didn't go past that, then what's the problem?

 

[pemma]

If you're not boarding a train I'm sure station staff can ask you to move or leave the station unless you have a platform ticket.

 

[IanPooleTrains]

One odd question though. Why does almost every paragraph in your post (barring one) begin with "now"? It sounds like a rant, which does not match your points about trying to not criticise people!

I'm being honest with you Ivo, the very last thing I want to do i have this come across as a rant and that kind of crap has got me nothing but problems in the past.

That is as far as I am willing to take it on that point but, please be assured I am not ranting, I just want to hear your guys takes on this

Also on your point about how close I was to the track, if you see the picture with the person's back to the camera, that is myself in my actual position I was in

 

[nr_signaller]

If you're not boarding a train I'm sure station staff can ask you to move or leave the station unless you have a platform ticket.

Dont even go there with OP regarding station staff lol

 

[pemma]

It looks to me like the signs have been placed too far along; they should be located on the platform just before the ramp...

the white line across at the top of the ramp is the public limit.

At some stations in Cheshire with 6 car platform lengths they never have any scheduled services over 4 car stopping there and the "do not go past this point" sign is about a carriage's length before the ramp. However, when excursion trains run they use the whole platform length.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Only issue I can see is;

- You were on the ramp, but the sign states behind the line, which stops at the top of the ramp.

Therefore, it seems you were in the wrong.

 

[pemma]

Dont even go there with OP regarding station staff lol

I can't see where he said he did ask station staff?

 

[HST Power]

If you're not boarding a train I'm sure station staff can ask you to move or leave the station unless you have a platform ticket.

I've spotted at a lot of stations and never had to buy a platform ticket. If you ask nicely on the barriers, they'll let you in free on good days!

 

[LexyBoy]

What exactly does the sign say? Some (IIRC) say "Customers must not cross the line", whilst others say that you may not pass the sign. If the former then the ramp is definitely out of bounds (and the sign stupidly placed); if the latter then I can't see why you were in the wrong (though I would think platform ramps are not intended for customer use).

The response of the driver is a bit out of order by your account though (obviously we don't know what your attitude was etc) - a simple "Oi, you're not supposed to be there, please get back on the platform please" would do.

 

[pemma]

Only issue I can see is;

- You were on the ramp, but the sign states behind the line, which stops at the top of the ramp.

Therefore, it seems you were in the wrong.

The sign states you must not go beyond this point or cross the line. I think most people will read "cross the line" as being the same as "cross the track."

 

[causton]

Only issue I can see is;

- You were on the ramp, but the sign states behind the line, which stops at the top of the ramp.

Therefore, it seems you were in the wrong.

What if you couldn't read the sign until you were past the line?

 

[Crossover]

Cannock station doesn't have barriers and AFAIK is unstaffed so no problems with either. Though you can be moved on for "loitering" under a byelaw which is posted about on Stafford station.

Its an interesting one, this one. I can see where the driver was coming from to an extent but the sign is indeed at the bottom of the ramp and the sign says not to cross the sign or the line (in this case I think this refers to the railway line rather than the white line at the top of the ramp). However in most cases the ramps are banned territory hence why I say I can see why the driver took exception.

 

[wintonian]

Only issue I can see is;

- You were on the ramp, but the sign states behind the line, which stops at the top of the ramp.

Therefore, it seems you were in the wrong.

That has always been my understanding, that the public must not cross the line, otherwise why paint the line there and why put it on the signs if there is no other horizontal line crossing the platform or ramp.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

What if you couldn't read the sign until you were past the line?

Honestly though, most people wait at the middle of the platform, not towards the end or on the ramp. Being a railway enthusiast, drivers expect you to understand the signs or rules before you insist on being correct - which in this instance, IPT wasnt.

 

[Crossover]

What if you couldn't read the sign until you were past the line?

Agreed, from looking at the pictures, if NR are meaning you shouldn't cross the line on the platform then the sign shouldn't be in the cess, rather, on this platform itself.

 

[wintonian]

Agreed, from looking at the pictures, if NR are meaning you shouldn't cross the line on the platform then the sign shouldn't be in the cess, rather, on this platform itself.

I think the sign is just badly sited.

If they mean the rail line then surly they would refer to it as track to avoid confusion?

 

[Crossover]

I think the sign is just badly sited.

Yes, the sign is possibly badly sited, but it seems to be the same for both sides. In this case I would take it to read "passengers must not pass this point (i.e. sign) or must not cross the tracks"
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If they mean the rail line then surly they would refer to it as track to avoid confusion?

The other thing is if the sign was otherwise located (ie at the top of the ramp) then "passengers must not pass this point" would suffice as the "cross the line" would be essentially redundant.

 

[OxtedL]

Yep, the white/yellow line is there for a reason, so the sign is in a dodgy place.
EDITNot that kind of dodgy place )

 

[Fred26]

I'm with the driver. You probably scared him. It has scared me in the past when people have been stood at the bottom of the ramp (not just spotters either, though they are the biggest culprit) and will no doubt do so again.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Do we have an attitude problem? If someone asks you to move while on their property, you move, don't you? There's no need to enquire any further.

. . . . . was he right for his stance that I shouldn't have been standing there?

Don't bother yourself with this line of thought - it won't go anywhere useful.
You're not qualified to judge whether a member of staff was 'right' or not. That's the job of his/her line manager, isn't it? And you're not his/her line manager, are you?

In fact, what are your qualifications?

I like to film trains, I'm a trainspotter

Are these accredited qualifications?

 

[GB]

platform ramps are usually deemed to be outside of the normal operating area (with a few exceptions). So while the sign is in a poor place I do think you were pushing your luck being where you were and a member of staff has every right to ask you to move to another part of the platform/station.

 

[voyagerdude220]

If someone asks you to move while on their property, you move, don't you? There's no need to enquire any further.

Very well said Dave Newcastle! IPT is 100% in the wrong here in my view, despite the fact the sign wasn't behind where he appears to have been att he time. My reasons are because:

1) If I was the said driver, I wouldn't want anyone so close to the track/ front of my train- for your own safety.

2) If a driver asks you to move IPT- then move!! Don't argue with them. You don't have the right to disregard/ignore their instructions. Of course, feel free to disagree, but you have no authority and how you feel has no outcome on whether you need to follow instructions or not. If everyone argued with every member of staff, there wouldn't be any point in having them there running the service in the first place.

3) My biggest gripe against you IPT- Why the heck have you named the specific time/place you were at?!! There was no need to what so ever! You could easily have given a scenario, without any info what so ever, and got the same response from us..

 

[yorkie]

I am not sure if the OP is able to comply with instructions or not. I hope so, but I do have concerns. I will say no more than that other than if the OP has any questions he shouild write to the TOC that manages the station, London Midland.

Sometimes 'spotters' behave in a way that is not seen as 'normal' and unfortunately you have to expect that sometimes you will be challenged when 'spotting' (or similar). The challenge should be made in a polite way, and of course the response should also be polite.

Regarding signs that refer to 'crossing the line', that clearly means crossing the [railway] line!

 

[voyagerdude220]

I realise i've had quite a go at IPT over the last few days, however it's by no means personal- after all, I don't even know the bloke!

However, I feel what i've said recenty has been 100% justified, because of his general disregard towards what other people say, whenever he disagrees with them.

It seems to me, if you tell IPT to do something he doesn't want to/tell him what you think of something, which he dislikes, in his mind, it appears to mean absoloutely zero.

Why is this the case? I feel any "decent" member of the public should be able to take onboard the views of others, without throwing their toys out of their pram.