A scam phone calls and emails discussion.

[route101]

Last few days I've had over 50 calls to my mobile from Africa or Russia. I answered once, nothing to hear. Probably a bad idea answering and triggered the computer to bombard me. I guess its just a computer dialing numbers?

 

[pdeaves]

I answered once, nothing to hear.

I've had a spate of those. What is the scam if no one says anything or does anything to try and persuade you to part with money/bank details, etc.? Or is it just an attempt to wear down the great British public by mildly annoying them?

 

[route101]

I've had a spate of those. What is the scam if no one says anything or does anything to try and persuade you to part with money/bank details, etc.? Or is it just an attempt to wear down the great British public by mildly annoying them?

Unless its activated by me speaking or something. Would be worried they could hack your phone and get your location.

 

[RichT54]

I've had a spate of those. What is the scam if no one says anything or does anything to try and persuade you to part with money/bank details, etc.? Or is it just an attempt to wear down the great British public by mildly annoying them?

My understanding is that the dialling of numbers is automated and their system identifies the numbers where there is a reply so that a human scammer can take over. However, the scammers may all currently be tied up speaking to other victims, so their system has to end the call. I would imagine that it still keeps a record that the call was answered so that it becomes more likely to get called again in the future.

 

[najaB]

I've had a spate of those. What is the scam if no one says anything or does anything to try and persuade you to part with money/bank details, etc.?

As @RichT54 says, they fire out hundreds or thousands of calls at a time, sometimes to numbers from a list they've bought, other times just at random. In any case, way more calls than they have 'staff' ready to handle. The vast majority will go to voicemail or never be answered, the ones that are either connect to a scammer or are noted to be tried again later. That's why being XD or NQR doesn't really help defend against scammers' calls.

 

[Lucan]

they fire out hundreds or thousands of calls at a time, sometimes to numbers from a list they've bought, other times just at random. In any case, way more calls than they have 'staff' ready to handle. The vast majority will go to voicemail or never be answered, the ones that are either connect to a scammer or are noted to be tried again later.

I don't think they come back to ones "noted" as responding. They have enough actual voice resonses to keep them busy immediately. I have answered quite a few scam calls, even had conversations with the scammers and encouraged them because I enjoy wasting their time. But it does not seem to change the pattern of calls, because OTOH I often miss calls because it is a long way to the phone here, and I know they were scams by checking the calling number with Google. The scam calls come in waves anyway, it just depends what set of numbers they are working on at the time.

 

[najaB]

I don't think they come back to ones "noted" as responding. They have enough actual voice resonses to keep them busy immediately.

It varies depending on the particular scammer.

 

[BluePenguin]

Just got one of those scam texts for tax rebate, dead giveaway it's a scam is the phone number starts +44, i've had a few scam texts for bank, Ebay/Amazon & the like, even had that DVLA £48 rebate scam

A text message from a number starting with +44 or 0044 only signifies that it is a UK number (as that is our international country code) and is not something to be suspicious of on its own. Every country in the world has one.

When calling or texting a UK number from abroad our country code is needed. Try it yourself by removing the leading 0 from your number and add +44 or 0040.

 

[pdeaves]

A text message from a number starting with +44 or 0044 only signifies that it is a UK number (as that is our international country code) and is not something to be suspicious of on its own. Every country in the world has one.

When calling or texting a UK number from abroad our country code is needed. Try it yourself by removing the leading 0 from your number and add +44 or 0040.

True, but UK to UK should not need to show that so if it does it could be a warning flag.

 

[najaB]

True, but UK to UK should not need to show that so if it does it could be a warning flag.

Not necessarily. It all depends on how the presentation number is configured.

 

[Westcountryman]

For those who are interested, this is what can happen if you reply to an Amazon scam call.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

At 0800 this morning, the female American recorded voice thanked me for renewing my NON-EXISTANT Amazon Prime account and stating I would be charged £79.99 for it (why do they always use £79.99 in scam calls?) and gave two options what to do. As usual, I made no response and ten seconds later, the call was terminated at their end.

This time on checking with 1471, it stated that the number had been withheld rather than a number being given.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

At 0800 this morning, the female American recorded voice thanked me for renewing my NON-EXISTANT Amazon Prime account and stating I would be charged £79.99 for it (why do they always use £79.99 in scam calls?) and gave two options what to do. As usual, I made no response and ten seconds later, the call was terminated at their end.

This time on checking with 1471, it stated that the number had been withheld rather than a number being given.

I get that from time to time, I think the recorded voice sounds quite spooky / creepy.

 

[Domh245]

why do they always use £79.99 in scam calls?

That's the cost of a year's subscription to Amazon prime, so it makes it seem more credible

 

[Mcr Warrior]

why do they always use £79.99 in scam calls?

So that you know it's a scam call?

The actual annual fee for Amazon Prime in the UK is £79.00 (or £7.99 if paid monthly).

 

[Westcountryman]

Just seen this in a local paper. I've not received it or seen any reports on this forum.

'A growing number of people are reporting an automated phone call which states that their National Insurance number has been “compromised”.

The recipients are then instructed to “press one on their handset to be connected to the caller”, which will allegedly fix the problem and even be issued a new National Insurance number.

However, doing so can lead to the fraudsters gaining control of your personal details, Action Fraud have said, which could have terrible consequences for the victims.'

 

[Typhoon]

Just seen this in a local paper. I've not received it or seen any reports on this forum.

'A growing number of people are reporting an automated phone call which states that their National Insurance number has been “compromised”.

The recipients are then instructed to “press one on their handset to be connected to the caller”, which will allegedly fix the problem and even be issued a new National Insurance number.

However, doing so can lead to the fraudsters gaining control of your personal details, Action Fraud have said, which could have terrible consequences for the victims.'

Thanks, I'll spread it around. I'd be surprised if DWP know my (or most other peoples phone number). However, maybe when they send their brown envelopes out they could put an appropriate message on the front warning of scams. I know each individual has to take responsibility but organisations could help by pushing the message. I can only find an envelope from my energy supplier, the back drones on about smart meters; I've had a water bill (envelope recycled), one page bill, 3 pages of bumph, 2 explaining how good they are and why they are aiming for 5 stars, one telling me that I am getting a rebate because the wastewater strategy is useless. Nothing about scams.

Edit: Since found a HMRC envelope - nothing except registering for a Personal Tax Account - now they should be doing better.

 

[The Ham]

Just seen this in a local paper. I've not received it or seen any reports on this forum.

'A growing number of people are reporting an automated phone call which states that their National Insurance number has been “compromised”.

The recipients are then instructed to “press one on their handset to be connected to the caller”, which will allegedly fix the problem and even be issued a new National Insurance number.

However, doing so can lead to the fraudsters gaining control of your personal details, Action Fraud have said, which could have terrible consequences for the victims.'

I've had that call a few times, saying that there's been fraud linked to it on the Welsh boarder.

Clearly if there had been they wouldn't tell you anything about what had happened abs would ask you for details to confirm if the use was valid (not that using random National Insurance Numbers would be very wise given that it would come up as a second job and so they would at least not get any tax free allowance and could find that they are paying higher rate tax very quickly).

 

[daveinstoke]

they seem to be doing block calls in the same day , i.e , gas, t.v etc...any calls us we ask them call at a better time of 3.am !
Dave.

 

[A Challenge]

they seem to be doing block calls in the same day , i.e , gas, t.v etc...any calls us we ask them call at a better time of 3.am !
Dave.

If they're in an Indian call centre that's a reasonable time of day (relatively, 08:30), so that may be a risk that they do exactly that - even easier with an automated dialler.

 

[najaB]

If they're in an Indian call centre that's a reasonable time of day (relatively, 08:30), so that may be a risk that they do exactly that - even easier with an automated dialler.

If they're in an overseas call centre it's likely operating 24/7 so any time will be convenient.

 

[Lucan]

However, maybe when they send their brown envelopes out they could put an appropriate message on the front warning of scams. I know each individual has to take responsibility but organisations could help by pushing the message.

Some people are not very bright. If they got an envelope with a warning on the outside about scams, they might conclude that this very letter is telling you it is a scam itself, so they would discard it straight away. OTOH, several of the utilities and banks I am with do have warnings about scams within their letters, and I also get emails and from them warning about scams. Plus, every time I make an on-line payment on my bank website, it nags me not to send money to people if they just phone up and ask for it (does that include my daughter?).

There is not a lot more they can do, apart from force people to watch some of Jim Browning's YouTube vlogs. Or Western governments could put diplomatic pressure on India to shut down the huge scamming industry based there, instead of India just ignoring it or pleading that their legal system is not designed to deal with it*.

* According to Jim Browning, the Indian police cannot act on complaints made from outside India itself (even if they wanted to).

 

[najaB]

Or Western governments could put diplomatic pressure on India to shut down the huge scamming industry based there, instead of India just ignoring it or pleading that their legal system is not designed to deal with it*.

It would just move somewhere else, unfortunately.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Just seen this in a local paper. I've not received it or seen any reports on this forum.

'A growing number of people are reporting an automated phone call which states that their National Insurance number has been “compromised”.

The recipients are then instructed to “press one on their handset to be connected to the caller”, which will allegedly fix the problem and even be issued a new National Insurance number.

However, doing so can lead to the fraudsters gaining control of your personal details, Action Fraud have said, which could have terrible consequences for the victims.'

I had something similar on Monday, an automated call telling me I was in dispute with the tax office and a warrant had been issued for my arrest. But if I pressed 1 to speak to them they’d sort it all out

 

[The Ham]

I had something similar on Monday, an automated call telling me I was in dispute with the tax office and a warrant had been issued for my arrest. But if I pressed 1 to speak to them they’d sort it all out

I've had that as well, only a few weeks after getting a tax rebate cheque (given not asked for).

 

[Westcountryman]

Me: Hello

Her (Indian accent); Is that Mr ......? (gives my real name)

Me: Yes

Her: My name is Emma and I'm calling from your call-blocking service. (don't have one).

Me interrupting; What is your real name?

Her: My name is Emma.....

Me: No it isn't. Tell me your real name.

Silence as she thinks about what to do now we are off script.

5 seconds, line goes dead.

 

[Lucan]

[Re: the Indian scamming industry]

It would just move somewhere else, unfortunately.

Not so readily. There are several factors that make India a particularly favourable base for phone scamming.

1) Outside of the West, India has an exceptionally high proportion of good, or at least passable, speakers of English from whom to recruit scam centre agents.

2) India has a large legitimate call centre industry already, and the scam industry is a spin-off. Both my previous phone provider (BT) and ISP had Indian call centres. Many scammers are their ex-employees, and received training for dealing with Western customers that way. Some scammers work at legitimate call centres for a while specifically for this training. I had a conversation with a scammer who claimed to be from BT, and he showed a surprisingly deep knowledge of the UK phone system.

3) A side effect from (2) is that an Indian accent is actually an advantage. When I used to phone BT that my line was down (a regular occurence) I was always answered by their Indian call centre. People might be more suspicious of a Chinese, East European, American, African or even a British accent in these circumstances. I guess that is why African scammers (known in scam-baiting circles as "The Lads from Lagos") tend to use email, at least for first contact.

4) India has a high level of IT expertise. Whereas in the West, such expertise has attracted a stigma of nerdiness and social failure, in India it is an admired accomplishment.

5) The legal situation, as I have mentioned.

 

[najaB]

[Re: the Indian scamming industry]

Not so readily. There are several factors that make India a particularly favourable base for phone scamming.

1) Outside of the West, India has an exceptionally high proportion of good, or at least passable, speakers of English from whom to recruit scam centre agents.

2) India has a large legitimate call centre industry already, and the scam industry is a spin-off. Both my previous phone provider (BT) and ISP had Indian call centres. Many scammers are their ex-employees, and received training for dealing with Western customers that way. Some scammers work at legitimate call centres for a while specifically for this training. I had a conversation with a scammer who claimed to be from BT, and he showed a surprisingly deep knowledge of the UK phone system.

3) A side effect from (2) is that an Indian accent is actually an advantage. When I used to phone BT that my line was down (a regular occurence) I was always answered by their Indian call centre. People might be more suspicious of a Chinese, East European, American, African or even a British accent in these circumstances. I guess that is why African scammers (known in scam-baiting circles as "The Boys from Lagos") tend to use email, at least for first contact.

4) India has a high level of IT expertise. Whereas in the West, such expertise has attracted a stigma of nerdiness and social failure, in India it is an admired accomplishment.

5) The legal situation, as I have mentioned.

I'm not sure about #5 on your list, but 1 through 4 apply equally to South Africa, The Philippines, the English-speaking Caribbean, Mexico and increasingly to several South American countries. I spent 12 years or so working in the contact centre industry and many of the big legitimate players are moving out of India and into these other countries.

 

[PHILIPE]

[Re: the Indian scamming industry]

Not so readily. There are several factors that make India a particularly favourable base for phone scamming.

1) Outside of the West, India has an exceptionally high proportion of good, or at least passable, speakers of English from whom to recruit scam centre agents.

2) India has a large legitimate call centre industry already, and the scam industry is a spin-off. Both my previous phone provider (BT) and ISP had Indian call centres. Many scammers are their ex-employees, and received training for dealing with Western customers that way. Some scammers work at legitimate call centres for a while specifically for this training. I had a conversation with a scammer who claimed to be from BT, and he showed a surprisingly deep knowledge of the UK phone system.

3) A side effect from (2) is that an Indian accent is actually an advantage. When I used to phone BT that my line was down (a regular occurence) I was always answered by their Indian call centre. People might be more suspicious of a Chinese, East European, American, African or even a British accent in these circumstances. I guess that is why African scammers (known in scam-baiting circles as "The Boys from Lagos") tend to use email, at least for first contact.

4) India has a high level of IT expertise. Whereas in the West, such expertise has attracted a stigma of nerdiness and social failure, in India it is an admired accomplishment.

5) The legal situation, as I have mentioned.

A few years ago a group of call handlers in Talktalk's centre in India were sacked for using their position and expertise to carry out scam calls However, the Group set up their own "business" and finished up being caught again and this time a prison sentence. I am unable to provide a link after this length of time..

 

[heart-of-wessex]

I noticed this in my inbox today, I've unlinked the links, and it reads:

As part of the government’s coordinated response to Coronavirus, NHS is performing selections for coronavirus vaccination on the basis of family genetics and medical history. You have been selected to receive a Coronavirus Vaccination Use this service to confirm/reject your coronavirus (COVID-19) Vaccination: · >> NHS – Accept invitation · >> NHS – Decline invitation It then goes on to say: You can only use this service if you have received an email or SMS regarding this invitation. You can not use this service for anyone other than yourself. You are also free to reject this invitation, your appointment will be issued to the next person in line in that case.

The link appears to be jknursing.com, which a google search suggests it's some Indian thing. I only noticed after the line that says 'It then goes on to say:' which is a bit odd in an NHS E-mail, that's when I definitely thought 'yes, it's spam!' Never heard of Coronavirus spam, I mean what is the outcome, what do they get, is it a ask for a PIN number or something? I haven't gone into the link to find out what happens.

Also the E-mail address comes up as princesstiannarose.at.hotmail.co.uk, I've googled the address but no reports.