AAA Emerson Park

[34D]

I'd be interested to see precisely _how_ they would do this.

I suppose the AAA could be taken off, or validity changed to 'not Upminster' or potentially 'not C2C'.

Its worth mentioning though that (on this ticket) Romford-Stratford-Gas Factory curve-Fenchurch St is a permitted route, as is Upminster-Barking-Stratford-Liverpool St (both have had 1 train a day, certainly in part of 2011 but not sure about now).

Also, does jubilee/DLR from Stratford Regional to West Ham have any validity on any NR tickets (maybe arising from the North Woolwich closure in 2006)?

 

[W-on-Sea]

There are several trains a day (Mon-Fri, and I think one early Saturday morning one) between Barking and Stratford-Liverpool Street, but there has not been a regular scheduled service between Stratford and Gas Factory-Limehouse-Fenchurch Street for many decades.

(Emergency diversions, yes: and very rare engineering works, which have had one train a day over the line on a few occasions in recent months, but none that I am aware of in the last few years prior to that)

So such a ticket would still draw attention at FST!

I've wondered that about Stratford-West Ham too (and also if NR ticket availability extends to the new DLR branch there, as well as the Jubilee line). I seem to recall finding some journeys (last year or the year before) that NRE routed via that way, so I presume the answer is yes, but it's difficult to find any official confirmation of this.

 

[RJ]

Not really, they're just digging further. No point to point tickets within the zones? First I've heard of that!

There's exceptions to the rules everywhere! Can't buy a paper ticket between Enfield Chase and Enfield Town, though you can to Bush Hill Park . Given that the ticket is routed +Not London, it doesn't suggest that walking between the Enfield Stations is the only route, but rather taking the Underground from Finsbury Park to Seven Sisters. Plus, there's no ticket from Enfield Stations to Bush Hill Park - the station would be named on the ticket. So there's no reason why there can't also be a ticket to Enfield Town

 

[Paul Kelly]

I'd be interested to see precisely _how_ they would do this.

I don't believe they can.

I suppose the AAA could be taken off, or validity changed to 'not Upminster' or potentially 'not C2C'.

That can't be changed; it's a protected/regulated fare.

There is not really any point in adding negative easements either; as far as I can see Emerson Park to Fenchurch Street via Upminster is within 3 miles of Emerson Park to Liverpool Street via Romford. Also any collusion between c2c and NXEA to change things wouldn't be allowed under various rules preventing that sort of thing (sorry I don't know enough to be more specific, but I'm sure it was mentioned on this forum before, but I can't find a link right now). I think it is just bluster on the part of c2c and predict that nothing will be changed.

 

[PavlosA]

Not surprising in the slightest. Once you got confirmation from ATOC, you should have just left it! I'm a believer in only rustling feathers if it's absolutely imperative and there's no alternative.

What it looks like is that you got the confirmation you required from ATOC which was more than fair enough, then ran back to the TOCs and rubbed it in their faces!

Indeed, I've been a silly boy.

 

[34D]

but there has not been a regular scheduled service between Stratford and Gas Factory-Limehouse-Fenchurch Street for many decades.

(Emergency diversions, yes: and very rare engineering works, which have had one train a day over the line on a few occasions in recent months, but none that I am aware of in the last few years prior to that)

Agreed. There was tail end of 2011, the world war II bomb in June 2008, and that's about all I recall.

I've wondered that about Stratford-West Ham too (and also if NR ticket availability extends to the new DLR branch there, as well as the Jubilee line). I seem to recall finding some journeys (last year or the year before) that NRE routed via that way, so I presume the answer is yes, but it's difficult to find any official confirmation of this.

There was something in the rail magazines at the time, but I don't know how much was official. I remember something like ticket prices wouldn't increase. Anyone recall better than me?

I don't believe they can.

That can't be changed; it's a protected/regulated fare.

There is not really any point in adding negative easements either; as far as I can see Emerson Park to Fenchurch Street via Upminster is within 3 miles of Emerson Park to Liverpool Street via Romford. Also any collusion between c2c and NXEA to change things wouldn't be allowed under various rules preventing that sort of thing (sorry I don't know enough to be more specific, but I'm sure it was mentioned on this forum before, but I can't find a link right now). I think it is just bluster on the part of c2c and predict that nothing will be changed.

Very interesting - many thanks.

Indeed, I've been a silly boy.

No sir - you did what any customer (under threat of a penalty fare) would do.

Have you yet asked for your money back for the ticket you bought under duress?

 

[swt_passenger]

There was something in the rail magazines at the time, but I don't know how much was official. I remember something like ticket prices wouldn't increase. Anyone recall better than me?

I suspect it only applied to extant season tickets - para 24 of the closure notice here:

http://webarchive.nationalarchives..../pgr/rail/pi/northlondonlineclosurestratf1403

.. seems to be relevant to this point, there seems to have only been a temporary validity, between line closure and NLL takeover by TfL, at which time they seem to have decided that Oyster PAYG would be the answer. There may be different interpretations possible, I don't know.

The last online version I have saved of the NFM 'section L' didn't show dual availability between Stratford and West Ham in the relevant table - was that about 2008?

Maybe the real question should have been why was 'parallel route dual availability' not introduced previously with the Jubilee extension - it doesn't seem to have been AFAICT.

 

[87015]

Agreed. There was tail end of 2011, the world war II bomb in June 2008, and that's about all I recall.

The Gas Factory - Bow single line is now covered on a planned basis as part of the standard plan when Fenchurch Street - Barking is blocked after 20.40 FSX which is suposed to be every twelve weeks but is more/less frequent over the summer. Must have been some meddling trainspotter involved in that I'm sure...

 

[clagmonster]

I There is not really any point in adding negative easements either; as far as I can see Emerson Park to Fenchurch Street via Upminster is within 3 miles of Emerson Park to Liverpool Street via Romford.

The 3 mile rule is only mentioned in the routeing guide so could be prevented by a negative easement in my opinion. If it was the outright shortest route then a negative easement would have no effect

 

[PavlosA]

No sir - you did what any customer (under threat of a penalty fare) would do.

Have you yet asked for your money back for the ticket you bought under duress?

Ah no, that was jspencer. Perhaps you want to reassess...

 

[jspencer74]

Ah no, that was jspencer. Perhaps you want to reassess...

34D - No I never did ask for my money back as I have not spent very much time in the office lately (near Fenchurch).

I am more interested in ensuring it doesn't happen again.

Pavlosa - Thank you for a copy of your ATOC letter, I have printed it out and will keep it with my ticket in the meantime. As far as I can see here the fare rules have not changed *yet* (and as noted by others) and may not change, so will continue to use my ticket.

I am wondering if I should write to ATOC on my own behalf as my issue is not a Gidea Park AAA Emerson Park as per the original discussion of the this thread. Simply I start and end my journey at Emerson Park, and it is my preferred station / routing and is supported by the ATOC routing guide.

That said (sorry for the ramble) experience shows I am currently unable to use my EMP ticket at Gidea Park and that would certainly come in handy at times.