Abellio wins West Midlands franchise

[nuneatonmark]

As someone who travels very often along the Euston/Trent Valley route, I think that LM did a pretty decent job in the end. They inherited a lemon of a service specification from Crewe to London from the government and showed some initiative, particularly with project 110. In the end they were victims of their own success along the Trent Valley. I would have preferred they retained the franchise to build on what they had achieved after a very wobbly start. They also offered some very good value tickets to/from London and the North West. I hope that the new lot DO manage to build on it and don't go backwards for a while.

 

[Idon'tKnow]

As someone who travels very often along the Euston/Trent Valley route, I think that LM did a pretty decent job in the end. They inherited a lemon of a service specification from Crewe to London from the government and showed some initiative, particularly with project 110. In the end they were victims of their own success along the Trent Valley. I would have preferred they retained the franchise to build on what they had achieved after a very wobbly start. They also offered some very good value tickets to/from London and the North West. I hope that the new lot DO manage to build on it and don't go backwards for a while.

Couldn't agree more!

 

[HLE]

The difference between a TOC where Guards are valued, managed appropriately and have a relatively secure future in that role, compared to a TOC where Guards are seen as an operational inconvenience, individual performance is completely irrelevant and all exist under a cloud of uncertainty...?

Spot on.

Trouble is without making themselves visible to the public by doing ticket checks how do LM guards expect the passengers to react if the DOO epidemic creeps into the franchise.

Seems to be only the newbies and a couple of the older hands that seem bothered about ticket checks. Riding around in the back cab screams nothing but waste to most passengers.

 

[setdown]

Spot on.

Trouble is without making themselves visible to the public by doing ticket checks how do LM guards expect the passengers to react if the DOO epidemic creeps into the franchise.

Seems to be only the newbies and a couple of the older hands that seem bothered about ticket checks. Riding around in the back cab screams nothing but waste to most passengers.

I was on a train from Liverpool today travelling towards Birmingham. The auto-announcer was stuck on the previous journey, so was announcing the wrong stations in the wrong order, and kept insisting it was going to Liverpool, not Birmingham. There was no word from the guard. How hard would it have been to do a manual announcement at each station? I helped a couple of passengers who were confused about where we were....it was Acton Bridge, but it’s dark, an announcement would have made a world of difference. But yeah, the guard was in the back cab all the time too.

It’s a shame, as some guards who walk through the train obviously do care about the passengers, want to help, and are very pleasant.

 

[Kettledrum]

I was on a train from Liverpool today travelling towards Birmingham. The auto-announcer was stuck on the previous journey, so was announcing the wrong stations in the wrong order, and kept insisting it was going to Liverpool, not Birmingham. There was no word from the guard. How hard would it have been to do a manual announcement at each station? I helped a couple of passengers who were confused about where we were....it was Acton Bridge, but it’s dark, an announcement would have made a world of difference. But yeah, the guard was in the back cab all the time too.

It’s a shame, as some guards who walk through the train obviously do care about the passengers, want to help, and are very pleasant.

exclusively relying on automated announcements in these circumstances = lousy customer service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You see an ex-LM guard so rarely that I think quite a lot of people think it *is* DOO.

Mind you, recently they've been a bit more visible - perhaps they see the threat and a need to prove their value?

FWIW, DOO drivers can make announcements, on Thameslink I find they are quite good at it (and I do like the Nederlandse Spoorwegen "bing bong bong" that goes with them! )

 

[Bletchleyite]

As someone who travels very often along the Euston/Trent Valley route, I think that LM did a pretty decent job in the end. They inherited a lemon of a service specification from Crewe to London from the government and showed some initiative, particularly with project 110. In the end they were victims of their own success along the Trent Valley. I would have preferred they retained the franchise to build on what they had achieved after a very wobbly start. They also offered some very good value tickets to/from London and the North West. I hope that the new lot DO manage to build on it and don't go backwards for a while.

Yes, I'd agree with this. I was genuinely disappointed to see them lose. I'd love to know what improvements they were bidding - perhaps all the other 25kV 20m Desiros transferring in to up capacity, plus perhaps 707s on the X City to keep it a Siemens shop?

I don't think Abellio will be *terrible*, but I think they will be much more basic. So far they're more than a little bit, how do we put it, 1980s BR. Sort of OK, and probably going to be decent at the engineering stuff, but otherwise a bit lackadaisical. Maybe a bit GWR-esque in that sense.

 

[Kettledrum]

General public seemed to hate LM, yet they scored very highly in passenger surveys, especially in the last few years.

This is spot on. The die was cast at an early stage. Failure to recruit enough drivers and fill the rosters meant lots of cancelled trains and a complete loss of public confidence and support. RyanAir have had a similar problem with its pilots recently.

 

[pt_mad]

Yes, I'd agree with this. I was genuinely disappointed to see them lose. I'd love to know what improvements they were bidding - perhaps all the other 25kV 20m Desiros transferring in to up capacity, plus perhaps 707s on the X City to keep it a Siemens shop?

I don't think Abellio will be *terrible*, but I think they will be much more basic. So far they're more than a little bit, how do we put it, 1980s BR. Sort of OK, and probably going to be decent at the engineering stuff, but otherwise a bit lackadaisical. Maybe a bit GWR-esque in that sense.

What do you predict will be basic compared to the old LM franchise?

As you say, LM would probably have continued to run with all the 350s they had, plus TPEs. But from what I read on the forums they had a per mile maintenance agreement with Siemens, which made it undesirable to run more than 4 car trains in the middle of the day.

Now surely the DFT would have wanted to get away from this?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What do you predict will be basic compared to the old LM franchise?

The branding and customer service side. The operational side may well be better - that's what Abellio are like - Nederlandse Spoorwegen is best summed up as basic on the branding side but excellent on the operational and engineering side (bought-in Italian rubbish aside).

As you say, LM would probably have continued to run with all the 350s they had, plus TPEs. But from what I read on the forums they had a per mile maintenance agreement with Siemens, which made it undesirable to run more than 4 car trains in the middle of the day.

Now surely the DFT would have wanted to get away from this?

That would be a good thing.

 

[capoldi]

Re: invisible guards

I downgraded my first class ticket when I started using LM instead of Virgin...not because of lack of extras, but simply because in 6 months my ticket was checked once, and I constantly heard people saying "oh we'll just sit in here, no one checks".

I'm sure somewhere within the business there are half decent guards, but if I was to look at this from a day to day point of view, they're a member of staff in a cupboard who is there for one-in-a-million emergencies - much like a fire extinguisher or a glass hammer. They are also the reason for the world's slowest door opening procedure. Unless their presence can be shown to add value to the business and to passenger journeys, I don't see them being around forever...which is a shame

 

[CentralTrainer]

You see an ex-LM guard so rarely that I think quite a lot of people think it *is* DOO.

Mind you, recently they've been a bit more visible - perhaps they see the threat and a need to prove their value?

FWIW, DOO drivers can make announcements, on Thameslink I find they are quite good at it (and I do like the Nederlandse Spoorwegen "bing bong bong" that goes with them! )

I can assure you they’re EXTREMELY visible on the services on the Snow Hill Line (between Birmingham/Dorridge/Whitlocks End and Worcester/Malvern) - and that goes for both LM and WMR

They walk through on every service (crowding and rolling stock permitting as sometimes they couple two sets together that then make it impossible for the Guard to get from back set to front set) and do ticket checks as they go. I’d say about 95% of the time in the morning to work my ticket is checked.

 

[KashmireHawker]

WMR probably in absolute fury this morning, as a Double Decker bus struck a bridge somewhere in Birmingham and thus causing yet more delays until things are looked at I believe

 

[Mordac]

I can assure you they’re EXTREMELY visible on the services on the Snow Hill Line (between Birmingham/Dorridge/Whitlocks End and Worcester/Malvern) - and that goes for both LM and WMR

They walk through on every service (crowding and rolling stock permitting as sometimes they couple two sets together that then make it impossible for the Guard to get from back set to front set) and do ticket checks as they go. I’d say about 95% of the time in the morning to work my ticket is checked.

The problem does seem to be confined to the WCML guards. Even on Liverpool services they mostly turn up.

 

[sprinterguy]

WMR probably in absolute fury this morning, as a Double Decker bus struck a bridge somewhere in Birmingham and thus causing yet more delays until things are looked at I believe

I don't think it's causing any delays - A quick peruse suggests that Cross-City services have been running fine since the start of service this morning.

While it looks like National Express West Midlands can add a new open topper to their fleet after trying to push a double decker through a bridge with 10 foot clearance on Bournville Lane, it seems that it happened late last night, after the end of passenger service:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-42435613

 

[ChrisHogan]

I can assure you they’re EXTREMELY visible on the services on the Snow Hill Line (between Birmingham/Dorridge/Whitlocks End and Worcester/Malvern) - and that goes for both LM and WMR

They walk through on every service (crowding and rolling stock permitting as sometimes they couple two sets together that then make it impossible for the Guard to get from back set to front set) and do ticket checks as they go. I’d say about 95% of the time in the morning to work my ticket is checked.

Is this serious? I can't remember the last time I had my ticket checked travelling from Stourbridge to Galton Bridge or Snow Hill or vice-versa. The ticketless travel study undertaken for the DfT last year showed very high levels of ticketless travel (44% without tickets on one weekend train) on the Snow Hill services.

 

[gg1]

I don't think it's causing any delays - A quick peruse suggests that Cross-City services have been running fine since the start of service this morning.

While it looks like National Express West Midlands can add a new open topper to their fleet after trying to push a double decker through a bridge with 10 foot clearance on Bournville Lane, it seems that it happened late last night, after the end of passenger service:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-42435613

I heard that on the radio this morning, very surprised there was no disruption to services, obviously a very sturdy bridge. Posthumous kudos to the Midland Railway engineer responsible for designing it

 

[sprinterguy]

I heard that on the radio this morning, very surprised there was no disruption to services, obviously a very sturdy bridge. Posthumous kudos to the Midland Railway engineer responsible for designing it

I think it's the engineers of the Worcester & Birmingham canal you have to thank for the original bore. It's certainly quite a substantial structure, and quite long, too - virtually a tunnel from a road users' perspective. It surprised me that the bus driver managed to make it all the way through from end to end without sticking, when the clearance is so significantly less than the height of a double decker bus!

 

[TH172341]

Is this serious? I can't remember the last time I had my ticket checked travelling from Stourbridge to Galton Bridge or Snow Hill or vice-versa. The ticketless travel study undertaken for the DfT last year showed very high levels of ticketless travel (44% without tickets on one weekend train) on the Snow Hill services.

I have to also say that I rarely have the tickets checked on the Snow Hill line; that figure is no surprise considering many people can make a free hop between the stations without barriers. When compared to other operators I use (e.g TPE) the regularity of checks is far worse. The Shrewsbury services are decent with some pro-active individuals.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

I use(d) LM services fairly often between Hereford, Worcester and Birmingham, and it's very rare not to have a ticket check. Certainly more common than on GWR services west of Charlbury.

 

[STKKK46]

I think it's the engineers of the Worcester & Birmingham canal you have to thank for the original bore. It's certainly quite a substantial structure, and quite long, too - virtually a tunnel from a road users' perspective. It surprised me that the bus driver managed to make it all the way through from end to end without sticking, when the clearance is so significantly less than the height of a double decker bus!

Significantly less is even an understatement! It's a traffic lighted bridge for one way passing. Looking at the image on the BBC site, I'd be amazed if you could fit a single decker through that!

 

[12guard4]

S

Significantly less is even an understatement! It's a traffic lighted bridge for one way passing. Looking at the image on the BBC site, I'd be amazed if you could fit a single decker through that!

Struggling to understand why the driver attempted that.

 

[jimjim]

Significantly less is even an understatement! It's a traffic lighted bridge for one way passing. Looking at the image on the BBC site, I'd be amazed if you could fit a single decker through that!

The number 27 single decker goes through every 20min during the day. Guess one explanation is the driver thought he was in a single decker...

 

[bussnapperwm]

Is this serious? I can't remember the last time I had my ticket checked travelling from Stourbridge to Galton Bridge or Snow Hill or vice-versa. The ticketless travel study undertaken for the DfT last year showed very high levels of ticketless travel (44% without tickets on one weekend train) on the Snow Hill services.

8 times out of 10 I had a ticket checked on Snow Hill kind trains

Significantly less is even an understatement! It's a traffic lighted bridge for one way passing. Looking at the image on the BBC site, I'd be amazed if you could fit a single decker through that!

Apparently the frigid been recently replanted with the correct height restriction. According to what I read on another forum, however, was that the Volvo Single deck buses (B10B) that used to be on the number 27 service prior to the Scania buses that are on now, was not even permitted to that use that routing.

The number 27 single decker goes through every 20min during the day. Guess one explanation is the driver thought he was in a single decker...

I heard rumours they were preparing the Decker for used for the celebration of Birmingham winning of the Commonwealth Games

 

[iainbhx]

I can assure you they’re EXTREMELY visible on the services on the Snow Hill Line (between Birmingham/Dorridge/Whitlocks End and Worcester/Malvern) - and that goes for both LM and WMR

They walk through on every service (crowding and rolling stock permitting as sometimes they couple two sets together that then make it impossible for the Guard to get from back set to front set) and do ticket checks as they go. I’d say about 95% of the time in the morning to work my ticket is checked.

Whilst I can't remember the last time my ticket was checked on the Snow Hill lines, but I get checked every day Birmingham to Crewe and quite frequently Crewe - Smethwick Galton Bridge. Mind you when I used to get the 07:15 Birmingham-Crewe, I didn't see a Virgin Guard for months and that was before New Street & Crewe had barriers.

 

[Class172]

Is this serious? I can't remember the last time I had my ticket checked travelling from Stourbridge to Galton Bridge or Snow Hill or vice-versa. The ticketless travel study undertaken for the DfT last year showed very high levels of ticketless travel (44% without tickets on one weekend train) on the Snow Hill services.

I have to also say that I rarely have the tickets checked on the Snow Hill line; that figure is no surprise considering many people can make a free hop between the stations without barriers. When compared to other operators I use (e.g TPE) the regularity of checks is far worse. The Shrewsbury services are decent with some pro-active individuals.

I use(d) LM services fairly often between Hereford, Worcester and Birmingham, and it's very rare not to have a ticket check. Certainly more common than on GWR services west of Charlbury.

To add to previous accounts from others, my experience of ticket checks on the between Worcester and Moor St is pretty much non-existent; I can perhaps remember only one occasion in the past few years. On the New St. services, I would perhaps experience a ticket check on around 1 in 5 journeys.

 

[the sniper]

I have to also say that I rarely have the tickets checked on the Snow Hill line; that figure is no surprise considering many people can make a free hop between the stations without barriers. When compared to other operators I use (e.g TPE) the regularity of checks is far worse. The Shrewsbury services are decent with some pro-active individuals.

To be fair, the nature of TPE is completely different to the Snow Hill lines. You've got to compare like with like. Ticket checks on TPE should be compared to checks on the WCML parts of LM/WMT, particularly north of Milton Keynes, or Hereford to New Street. If TPE Guards worked urban routes with 15+ stations, each literally spaced 2 to 3 minutes apart, like the Snow Hill lines or Cross City, you'd no doubt see them out less too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be fair, the nature of TPE is completely different to the Snow Hill lines. You've got to compare like with like. Ticket checks on TPE should be compared to checks on the WCML parts of LM/WMT, particularly north of Milton Keynes, or Hereford to New Street. If TPE Guards worked urban routes with 15+ stations, each literally spaced 2 to 3 minutes apart, like the Snow Hill lines or Cross City, you'd no doubt see them out less too.

You see Northern guards out all the time on routes of exactly that type.

 

[train_lover]

I'm a guard on the snow hill lines and it can be difficult to do ticket checks. With short platforms and curved platforms we are required to be in a particular part of the train to operate the doors safely. Take a look at Cradley Heath in the up direction. Due to the curvature of the platform we have to operate the doors in the third carriage to see the whole train. Then the next station along the line is Old Hill. It' takes 3 minutes to reach old hill and the platform can only take 4 coaches. So these two stations mean that a conductor will have no time to check tickets. These factors are something that people don't think about. After all our number one priorty is the safety of our passengers and not tickets.

 

[ChrisHogan]

I'm a guard on the snow hill lines and it can be difficult to do ticket checks. With short platforms and curved platforms we are required to be in a particular part of the train to operate the doors safely. Take a look at Cradley Heath in the up direction. Due to the curvature of the platform we have to operate the doors in the third carriage to see the whole train. Then the next station along the line is Old Hill. It' takes 3 minutes to reach old hill and the platform can only take 4 coaches. So these two stations mean that a conductor will have no time to check tickets. These factors are something that people don't think about. After all our number one priorty is the safety of our passengers and not tickets.

Only a third of trains call at Old Hill and only a minority of trains are 5 and 6 cars long anyway. There is no reason not to do tickets between Stourbridge Junction and Cradley Heath, Cradley and Rowley Regis and so on. You have auto PA and CIS and door controls in every coach on the 172s. Northern guards seem to work without difficulty on its urban trains doing a coach between each station stop. If the number one priority is safety why do I see so many guards sat back down in the rear cab seat before the train is clear of the platform instead of keeping a check for anything untoward?