Abellio wins West Midlands franchise

[Bletchleyite]

The policy would have always been to do tickets where possible. Nothing really Abellio can do to force the issue, offer extra incentives maybe. That wouldn't have happened though.

Disciplinary action against staff who never do tickets? Mystery shopping? Or do the union agreements not allow that kind of thing because the safety critical card could be played?

Mind you I think it’s best not to sell on board in PF areas.

 

[E_Reeves]

Just found a rogue 350 (350239) still with LM branding!

 

[sd0733]

Just found a rogue 350 (350239) still with LM branding!

Saw 249 and 260 yesterday which both have lm branding too. I believe there are 7 350s and 1 319 still in need of brand removal.

 

[E_Reeves]

Saw 249 and 260 yesterday which both have lm branding too. I believe there are 7 350s and 1 319 still in need of brand removal.

It only needs to be coloured in with a sharpie

 

[387star]

153366 still with lm branding

 

[pt_mad]

Will LNR be re-introducing seat reservations on any of their services under the new franchise? Perhaps the Crewe-Euston services?

Trouble with this is, they could end up filling over half the train with advance single ticket holders with tickets which cost about 8 quid. And then the hoards of passengers on anytime or season tickets or walk up ticket holders may not get a seat.

Have West midlands trains given assurances about guards ? Or will this company become the sixth to be in dispute

They said in the BBC Q and A when the franchise award was in the news, that their bid retained a second person.

Found it on Google, here:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-40886873

No mention there of exceptional circumstances.

Would this likely be considered acceptable by the unions? If they guaranteed the second person in all circumstances (and without them train cannot run) and existing staff kept existing money? Or would any potential loss of safety duties mean a likely dispute?

 

[gray1404]

They can still fill over half a train with advance tickets and not offer seat reservations.

 

[pt_mad]

They can still fill over half a train with advance tickets and not offer seat reservations.

But at least its first come first served for seats.

 

[12guard4]

Trouble with this is, they could end up filling over half the train with advance single ticket holders with tickets which cost about 8 quid. And then the hoards of passengers on anytime or season tickets or walk up ticket holders may not get a seat.



They said in the BBC Q and A when the franchise award was in the news, that their bid retained a second person.

Found it on Google, here:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-40886873

No mention there of exceptional circumstances.

Would this likely be considered acceptable by the unions? If they guaranteed the second person in all circumstances (and without them train cannot run) and existing staff kept existing money? Or would any potential loss of safety duties mean a likely dispute?

There would be a dispute but I imagine if the guard has to be on the train for it to run that's a fair compromise. However it's called Driver ONLY for a reason. They want rid of the second person.

 

[12guard4]

Disciplinary action against staff who never do tickets? Mystery shopping? Or do the union agreements not allow that kind of thing because the safety critical card could be played?

Mind you I think it’s best not to sell on board in PF areas.

What if everyone has a ticket? I know it is probably unlikely but how would you get round the guard saying everyone had tickets? I suppose mystery shoppers could work but they would have to be on the train for its duration and would probably cost too much.

 

[pt_mad]

There would be a dispute but I imagine if the guard has to be on the train for it to run that's a fair compromise. However it's called Driver ONLY for a reason. They want rid of the second person.

Unless there's an agreement similar to that on the Javlin trains in the southeast. Second person (train manager) doesn't take part in the operation of the train. However, they must be present in order for the train to run. Otherwise, train does not run.

 

[OxtedSignaller]

Unless there's an agreement similar to that on the Javlin trains in the southeast. Second person (train manager) doesn't take part in the operation of the train. However, they must be present in order for the train to run. Otherwise, train does not run.

On the Southeastern HS1 services though the second person has to be present and are trained in safety/evacuation in line with the HS1 regulations due to the deep level tunnels and high speed running which could be pretty risky in an emergency situation.

 

[pt_mad]

On the Southeastern HS1 services though the second person has to be present and are trained in safety/evacuation in line with the HS1 regulations due to the deep level tunnels and high speed running which could be pretty risky in an emergency situation.

Could they aim for a similar arrangement to that on the Scottish Strathclyde services then?

 

[xc170]

Could they aim for a similar arrangement to that on the Scottish Strathclyde services then?

What is this arrangement? Seen it mentioned a few times...

 

[YorkshireBear]

What is this arrangement? Seen it mentioned a few times...

Driver open, guard close. Actually think that might be wrong never mind....

 

[Domh245]

Driver open, guard close. Actually think that might be wrong never mind....

As I understand it, Driver Open, Guard Close is what has been agreed for class 380 and 385 operations outside of the Strathcylde area. Inside the Strathclyde area, the train is DOO, but must have a Ticket Examiner (ie a public facing person) on all trains or are otherwise fined.

 

[LowLevel]

As I understand it, Driver Open, Guard Close is what has been agreed for class 380 and 385 operations outside of the Strathcylde area. Inside the Strathclyde area, the train is DOO, but must have a Ticket Examiner (ie a public facing person) on all trains or are otherwise fined.

The SQUIRE area enforcement (don't ask me what it stands for because I don't know) has been somewhat diluted I believe because of the inspectors now being used to check standards throughout Scotland.

ScotRail aren't fined for running a given train single manned. They're fined if an inspector manages to complete a journey without having to buy a ticket and the fine is pretty substantial. Anecdotal evidence suggests some issues with staffing on some services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On the Southeastern HS1 services though the second person has to be present and are trained in safety/evacuation in line with the HS1 regulations due to the deep level tunnels and high speed running which could be pretty risky in an emergency situation.

Can anyone think of a service with deep level tunnels and far worse evacuation provision that is DOO? Not to mention ground-level electrification?

OK, there's the high speed bit, but they don't run *that* fast in the tunnels.

 

[ChrisHogan]

The SQUIRE area enforcement (don't ask me what it stands for because I don't know) has been somewhat diluted I believe because of the inspectors now being used to check standards throughout Scotland.

Service QUality Inspection REgime

 

[pt_mad]

As I understand it, Driver Open, Guard Close is what has been agreed for class 380 and 385 operations outside of the Strathcylde area. Inside the Strathclyde area, the train is DOO, but must have a Ticket Examiner (ie a public facing person) on all trains or are otherwise fined.

This is how I understand it in the Strathclyde. Train is driver controlled operation. But a second (customer service type) member of staff should and in theory must be on the train in order for it to run. And apparently according to another thread, the Scottish Government monitor that this is adhered to.

Could this be what is being planned for some of the inner suburban west midlands routes when new trains are in operation?

 

[pt_mad]

Can anyone think of a service with deep level tunnels and far worse evacuation provision that is DOO? Not to mention ground-level electrification?

OK, there's the high speed bit, but they don't run *that* fast in the tunnels.

Surely there are enough tunnels on the WCML routes, high speeds on adjacent lines, and potential for an evacuation anywhere just outside of Euston or Birmingham New Street that this could justify a Southeastern Javlin type agreement. I.e. second member of staff must be present to run, is fully trained in first aid, PTS and evacuation. However with the train (suburban routes) being driver controlled operation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If Thameslink DOO is not considered unsafe, south WCML DOO is also not unsafe.

 

[pt_mad]

If Thameslink DOO is not considered unsafe, south WCML DOO is also not unsafe.

Although that BBC Q and A linked to earlier, quoted the franchisee as saying that their bid retained a second person on all trains.

So it has to be something different to Thameslink planned one would have thought. As they have no such committment.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Possibly so - my point was just that the south WCML has basically the same hazards as the MML bit of Thameslink and is very similar operationally.

 

[pt_mad]

Just had a look at some photos of the refurbished class 185 interior being rolled out on Transpennine Express.

Googling refurbished class 185 should bring them up.

I was totally amazed how these desiro coaches can be made to look. The new colours of the seats make them look much more chunky and airline style. The wooden laminates at the far ends of the coaches and vestibule areas make it look like the mk 3s did under East Coast.

New leather seats in first class.

Actually looks just like a newly refurbished MK3 coach.

Truly superb.

I so hope that the class 350s are refurbished to this standard under LNR.

Does anyone know where the TPE class 185 refurbishment is being carried out? Is it being doneby TPE or Siemens?

If it's Siemens hopefully LNR will be aware of this design and have a similar standard if refurbishment available to them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I find the seat colour makes them look a bit 1970s - but nonetheless homely and welcoming. Use a darker seat colour such as the Abellio grey with the same wood-effect panelling, though, ideally adding vinyl headrests but moquette seats, and it'll look superb.

A bit like this for Greater Anglia, which is a 3+2 seated high density suburban EMU but still manages to look really classy.

GA Aventra mockup interior

 

[pt_mad]

I find the seat colour makes them look a bit 1970s - but nonetheless homely and welcoming. Use a darker seat colour such as the Abellio grey with the same wood-effect panelling, though, ideally adding vinyl headrests but moquette seats, and it'll look superb.

A bit like this for Greater Anglia, which is a 3+2 seated high density suburban EMU but still manages to look really classy.

GA Aventra mockup interior

I hope they go with the wood style panelling in the 350s. Makes all the difference. Don't know how TPE have wooden panels in the doorways as there doesn't look to be that much plastic in the doorway of a class 350 interior?

Worst thing could be they just recover the seats, recarpet and replace the door vinyls.

I hope it's not going to be just a case of that only and done.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be fair that would be no disaster - the only things showing a sign of serious wear on the 350s are the carpets and seat foams/covers, the rest of them are as new. A real credit to the quality of the design and build there - they get a hard life!

 

[pt_mad]

For those who haven't seen the refurbished 185 interior.

350 to this standard please!

 

[Bletchleyite]

View attachment 41728 For those who haven't seen the refurbished 185 interior.

350 to this standard please!

The “vestibule” wood there is the exhaust conduit rather than the vestibule, by the way, and the seat colour is much lighter.