"Abolish the railways!" (The Spectator)

[Llanigraham]

I don't know the Cornish branches well - I've only done one of them (Falmouth) - but I expect these might be further examples of where a properly integrated bus network using the branch as a bus only road would serve things better than the railway.

However, it is edge cases - mostly shortish branch lines - where this might be true. The Conwy Valley would be a further outlier - that would potentially be best replaced with a cycleway with electric buses on the largely uncongested main road as part of a revised "Sherpa'r Wyddfa" network - there is no nice way to cycle those journeys.

Not the St Ives, as there is simply nowhere near the railway station that is adequate for buses. The "Bus Station" at the top of the ramp from the station is only just big enough for 2 buses, who have to turn around there and in doing so often stop the traffic trying to get passed.
And it isn't helped, as one day two weeks ago, when a foreign tourist decided to park his hired Range Rover just by the entrance and apparently didn't understand English (Or Anglo Saxon!)

 

[andystock22]

What a complete load of rubbish - lets see all the traffic jams in London & Major cities on train and tube strike days!

In France, the number of domestic flights have been reduced as people prefer to use the TGV. The same happened between London and Manchester when the WCML was upgraded in the early 2000s.

It will take time for the railways in the UK to adjust to new travelling patterns, as a result of a reduction in commuting especially in the South East.

 

[Spartacus]

If you search Preston to Skipton on NRE it says there are no fares available for the journey via Carnforth. So to the average member of the public that is not an option. Not that a route which only operates a handful of times per day will offer a reliable connection anyway. (Journeys routed via Burnley are also cheaper than via Manchester though)

That's strange as there's a specific 'Carnforth Only' fare, £23.20 off peak return, £27.20 anytime, the TOC journey planners I use all seem to have it. Given it's an hour quicker I think that makes up for being less frequent, 8 trains a day isn't bad, and is a lot better than it was at one time

 

[Horizon22]

The flying v train comparison is often a misleading one between (eg) your standard anytime walk up fare and the cost of a flight booked well in advance. If you turned up at Gatwick or LCY and booked the first available airfare to Glasgow or Edinburgh for that day you’d likely find prices a lot more closely matched to the railway anytime fare. Plus of course you’d take the risk that the flights would be fully booked so you’d be unable to travel that day which wouldn’t ever be the case with the railway.

Yes that too - would like to see people regularly walk up to airport ticket desks (if they’re even staffed) to buy a flight!

 

[yorksrob]

Yes that too - would like to see people regularly walk up to airport ticket desks (if they’re even staffed) to buy a flight!

Flights are usually once or a few times a year affairs for special occasions for most people.

People shouldn't necessarily be expected to have to endure onerous conditions such as booking in advance for domestic journeys, to get a reasonably priced journey"

 

[gingerheid]

The idea of getting rid of large-volume mainlines or commuter routes is fanciful. But if you look at the Cambridgeshire busway it achieves far more than an hourly DMU on a branch line ever would. So there are some lines where he is talking sense, and some where he isn't. Oh for true integration.

I agree, with a heavy heart, that the CGB is better than what a train *would* have been. However it's not better than a train (or in fact light rail in this case) *could* have been, so in that context I'd say it's an argument that we need better railways (as opposed to no railways).

 

[Ken H]

That's strange as there's a specific 'Carnforth Only' fare, £23.20 off peak return, £27.20 anytime, the TOC journey planners I use all seem to have it. Given it's an hour quicker I think that makes up for being less frequent, 8 trains a day isn't bad, and is a lot better than it was at one time

over £20 from Skipton to Preston. Someone is having a giraffe. Its 35 miles down the A59 and takes under an hour. Bet even stagecoach done come near to that for the 280 through bus. and anyone who is averse to buses can bail at Clitheroe and get the train. Or go by Colne

 

[Meole]

This would include closing the Tube as well, could buses adequately replace this ?

 

[Horizon22]

Flights are usually once or a few times a year affairs for special occasions for most people.

People shouldn't necessarily be expected to have to endure onerous conditions such as booking in advance for domestic journeys, to get a reasonably priced journey"

Not necessarily but therefore other comparisons with flying/air travel should also be void. People can’t pick and choose as is convenient.

 

[yorksrob]

Not necessarily but therefore other comparisons with flying/air travel should also be void. People can’t pick and choose as is convenient.

The only real comparison is a cheap advanced fare. Other than fares, I don't think air has much to offer over rail for domestic journeys anyway (NI excepted).

 

[Ken H]

The only real comparison is a cheap advanced fare. Other than fares, I don't think air has much to offer over rail for domestic journeys anyway (NI excepted).

people look at air fares but forget the other expenses of flying. getting to and from the airport. maybe parking. cost of eating/drinking at the airport (not cheap).

 

[Mcr Warrior]

That's strange as there's a specific 'Carnforth Only' fare, £23.20 off peak return, £27.20 anytime, the TOC journey planners I use all seem to have it.

Also seems to be £34.70 Anytime Return tickets routed "via Burnley Manchester Road" which is possibly the way that I would go.

 

[Ken H]

via Leeds? really?

not Wizz to Colne or Burnley, then train?
unless you wanted to track bash!!!

 

[aavm]

Given the taxpayer has saved the rail industry for 2 years, paying pretty much all the salaries, there is a lot of real anger at the strikes for a 10% pay rise. You could probably get a million buses for the price of hs2. I'd like to see some lines replaced with motorway bus lanes to see how it works out.

 

[Joe Paxton]

It's just a slightly sarcastic opinion piece, no doubt blasted out in half an hour to fill space.

It's simply clickbait and designed to do exactly what it's done here.

Start a thread, include a link and the Spectator hope to then obtain advertising revenue from people clicking.

The more "out there" the better from their viewpoint.

Best to ignore the drivel.

Quite. Really not worth overthinking it.

Struggle to believe this isn't a parody.

The author of the piece would no doubt enjoy reading this thread, and bask in their success at having wound people up.

 

[mrcheek]

The article is clearly tongue in cheek.
as mentioned above, The Spectator will often print articles like this solely to generate a debate about things. It seems to have worked.

 

[dgl]

Might make people more productive at work and reduce lateness though, as in London with no trains most people would not have a hope in hell of getting home after work so they might just as well stay there
You'd have to have a rota system for who is allowed to go home on which day!

 

[boabt]

I mean it's not even the opinion of the author. The starting point for 'journalism' today? Think of a clickbait headline and dribble out some content to match.

 

[jayah]

Windermere is the one I'm most familiar with (of your list) and it seems to me it would be better off electrified with through services from Manchester bringing in loads of people from the urban areas, connecting to local buses at the Windermere hub.

The next train arrival at Windermere is 2139 from Kendal and Oxenholme.

The next bus departure from Windermere is 2150, back to Kendal.

The next is 2231 to Grasmere via Bowness. You will note those places are in opposite directions. The same bus is then the 2250 to Grasmere without Bowness.

The actual (and very sorry) state of integrated public transport in this country.

 

[yorksrob]

The next train arrival at Windermere is 2139 from Kendal and Oxenholme.

The next bus departure from Windermere is 2150, back to Kendal.

The next is 2231 to Grasmere via Bowness. You will note those places are in opposite directions. The same bus is then the 2250 to Grasmere without Bowness.

The actual (and very sorry) state of integrated public transport in this country.

That is true.

I once used the connection to get to Grassmere, and whilst the timing was good, I was taken aback by the cost of the bus ticket !

Nevertheless, I still think that an electrified rail route from the network into Windermere is the way to go.

 

[Magdalia]

The busway is really busy though and probably needs upgrading to something closer to a railway - some kind of tram/metro system that Cambridge keeps talking about.

Actually, it isn't. The section from Trumpington to Cambridge has had no buses at all since the January closure, and Cambridge to Trumpington is now every 15 minutes from Whippet and every 20 minutes for Stagecoach, making 7 buses an hour. On the north side the combined Stagecoach A and B service is every 10 minutes, 6 buses an hour.

Without hospital and college traffic it would be unsustainable.

If you do that it'll be less busy because it won't then achieve what it does achieve - direct journeys from a large hinterland via the trunk route of the Busway. That or more people will drive to St Ives to connect with it.

This argument no longer applies as most of the direct journeys off the busway into its hinterland have stopped. The B to Hinchingbrooke and the U to Eddington are all that's left. Through buses to/from Peterborough, Ramsey and Royston have all gone.

Though I do have anecdotal evidence that people from the north of the county do drive to the busway then use the bus for outpatients appointments at Addenbrookes and Papworth.

 

[gingerheid]

Actually, it isn't. The section from Trumpington to Cambridge has had no buses at all since the January closure, and Cambridge to Trumpington is now every 15 minutes from Whippet and every 20 minutes for Stagecoach, making 7 buses an hour. On the north side the combined Stagecoach A and B service is every 10 minutes, 6 buses an hour.

Without hospital and college traffic it would be unsustainable.


This argument no longer applies as most of the direct journeys off the busway into its hinterland have stopped. The B to Hinchingbrooke and the U to Eddington are all that's left. Through buses to/from Peterborough, Ramsey and Royston have all gone.

Though I do have anecdotal evidence that people from the north of the county do drive to the busway then use the bus for outpatients appointments at Addenbrookes and Papworth.

There's an unfair comparison gong on here!

If the busway had had the same financial support as the railways have had then peak services on the northern section would be something like every 3-4 mins (per the April 2020 timetable that never happened) and the range of links off guideway would have included everything you mentioned plus a lot more. Instead the service level was reduced and is slowly building back up in line with passenger numbers (unlike on the railways, which have stayed much more the same regardless of passenger levels).

And the fact that the busway serves the centre, the college, the hospital, two railway stations and three park and ride sites is surely evidence of its comparative strength?

 

[Magdalia]

Instead the service level was reduced and is slowly building back up in line with passenger numbers (unlike on the railways, which have stayed much more the same regardless of passenger levels).

No it isn't. The service levels I've quoted are following another round of service reductions by Stagecoach that were implemented on Monday of this week.

 

[Dryce]

Flights are usually once or a few times a year affairs for special occasions for most people.

The same could be said of equivalent rail journeys when comparing with domestic flights in the UK.

 

[gingerheid]

No it isn't. The service levels I've quoted are following another round of service reductions by Stagecoach that were implemented on Monday of this week.

Overall the 5th June timetable increased services (except the short As), and certainly further increased the total number of buses on the road.

 

[jfowkes]

Actually, it isn't. The section from Trumpington to Cambridge has had no buses at all since the January closure, and Cambridge to Trumpington is now every 15 minutes from Whippet and every 20 minutes for Stagecoach, making 7 buses an hour. On the north side the combined Stagecoach A and B service is every 10 minutes, 6 buses an hour.

Without hospital and college traffic it would be unsustainable.

I don't use the southern section a lot, but I get the busway from Longstanton to the Science Park and back most days and a lot of buses are full and standing.

Yes without the hospital and college traffic there would be less people on it, but... those things exist so I'm not sure what your point is. I can imagine any number of theoretical worlds where there's no demand for the busway. How does that help?

 

[Gostav]

Public transportation is a window between the people and the government, because only a highly cohesive and unified government can build and operate a complex system such as a railway network.
Look at the opposition around HS2 this time, protesters digging holes in the woods, MPs in arguing. This makes me wonder if the country is still cohesive? In many countries, transportation lines are lifelines, and there is no room for politicians to fun.

Politicians are bombastic.

Stop HS2 Staffordshire - Group | Facebook

www.facebook.com

It comes as anti-HS2 activists occupying a tunnel in Staffordshire entered their 31st day underground today.

The group created the tunnel in a bid to halt construction of the high-speed railway line through an area of woodland near Swynnerton.

One of the tunnellers at the Bluebell Wood Protection Camp said: “Our protest underground is an attempt to halt both HS2 and this government’s dangerous and undemocratic drive to silence those opposed to its self-serving, corporate agenda.

“We are on track for the longest tunnel eviction in British history and we are not going anywhere.”

The tunnel is the fourth to be built by anti-HS2 protesters, including the Euston Tunnel which was built in secret over months directly outside one of London’s busiest train stations.

anti-HS2 activists are digging more tunnels.

Meanwhile in Japan, a new high-speed rail line is already opening soon.

[JR Kyushu Managing Director Yoshiyuki Fukunaga]

On the 10th, JR Kyushu announced the operation plan after September 23 due to the opening of the Shinkansen.
The West Kyushu Shinkansen "Kamome" runs between Takeo Onsen and Nagasaki 44 times a day.
Of these, 19 of them, about 40%, are "express delivery" and do not stop at Ureshino Onsen Station.
With the opening of the Shinkansen, the limited express on the conventional line between Saga and Nagasaki will disappear, and it will be necessary to change between the limited express and the Shinkansen at Takeo Onsen Station.

 

[yorksrob]

The same could be said of equivalent rail journeys when comparing with domestic flights in the UK.

I don't agree.

Off to university, off to see granny, off to see one friend in Chelmsford.

These are not holiday visits. These are every day visits within the UK that ought to be catered for by the railway.

 

[Howardh]

This would include closing the Tube as well, could buses adequately replace this ?

Small ones that fit in tunnels!

 

[hexagon789]

Here's a better idea - abolish The Spectator!

(And no, I'm not being serious, some of their historical opinions and articles have actually been quite decent, but it seems to have taken some peculiar slants of late.)