Advice on unexpected type of ticket

[PaxVobiscum]

Perhaps some of you knowledgeable chaps can explain this to me.

I made a booking yesterday with ScotRail for a London trip and all is well with the requested (Caley Sleeper) tickets which came free by 1st class post today. (Great service BTW - why does anyone want to collect from a TVM just before travel?)

However, I had also requested 2 London Day Travelcards - like the one in the first photo below - which up to now I have ordered online from VisitBritain but as they add on quite a bit for postage I asked ScotRail telesales if they could supply them. The salesperson seemed slightly hesitant but said they could supply day passes for London Underground. The second picture shows the tickets which actually came.

I was a bit surprised to see them printed on ordinary orange ticket stock, but it's the OUT and RETURN portions that are causing me concern.
I was hoping to make multiple journeys by tube within Zones 1-6 without having to worry about direction of travel, doubling back and that sort of thing. Can I do that with these tickets, and if so, how do I use the OUT and RETURN portions?

I've read too many horror stories on here about people being caught with invalid tickets to want to take any risks.

 

[RJ]

Those tickets are singles from a London Terminal to/from any London Underground/DLR station in Zones 1-6. If you requested a Travelcard, it would appear to be an error on the part of the person who dealt with the sale of the ticket. Perhaps contact Scotrail Customer Services?

 

[ModernRailways]

No, these aren't correct.
A travelcard is only one ticket. I've attached a picture showing what it should look like - bear in mind mine is off-peak and using a Railcard. Normal price is £16.40 for an anytime ticket (travel before 0930 Monday to Friday) and an off-peak for £8.90 (travel after 0930 Monday to Friday or anytime on weekends or public holidays).
It should say 'London Zones 1-6' not 'Underground 123456'.
These are quite simply a return for anytime during the day between two stations that are somewhere in Zones 1-6.
Your picture also seems to show that they are on the same date - unless I'm going blind.

 

[bb21]

Your picture also seems to show that they are on the same date - unless I'm going blind.

I think it is meant for two people so the date is probably not a mistake.

I have had Travelcards issued as OUT and RTN before, which was due to a known technical problem at the time, however I believe these have been corrected. Those Travelcards were coded correctly on the magstripe so worked the gates fine although they did cause some confusion amongst revenue staff.

I concur that the key information to look out for is the wording "London Zones 1-6" (or other zonal combinations depending on what you purchased). U-zone tickets are singles/returns as already mentioned.

 

[transportphoto]

Yeah, I'm afraid as others say, you've been retailed the incorrect ticket. I've had trouble previously getting Travelcards from FSR Telesales due to the assumed irregularity of them selling them. I'd phone them on 01752 675670, with your booking reference and explain the circumstances to them.

The tickets they should have retailed would have a destination of 0035 London Zones 1-6.

Edit to add:

I've just made a quick phone call to FSR on the above number and enquired about their procedure and what they said is that they'd get the reference number from the customer and go back and listen to the recorded call to determine whether the incorrect sale was their fault (or whether it was the fault of the customer) and then go on to deal with each case as an individual basis

TP

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Thanks for the prompt and very helpful replies. The dates and the 1 adult/1 senior are about the only things that are correct it would seem. (Not sure what would be making you go blind ModernRailways )

I'll contact Customer Services and see what they say.

 

[ModernRailways]

Thanks for the prompt and very helpful replies. The dates and the 1 adult/1 senior are about the only things that are correct it would seem. (Not sure what would be making you go blind ModernRailways )

I'll contact Customer Services and see what they say.

I thought you meant it was for two dates not two people

What I tend to do when buying a Travelcard now is ask for a Day Travelcard for London Zones 1 to 6 from East Croydon. That way they can't actually give you a Underground zones 1-6 as the Underground doesn't go there. You can also use Hadley Wood or any other National Rail station that isn't connected to the Underground/DLR.

Hopefully Scotrail will help you out.

 

[RJ]

What I tend to do when buying a Travelcard now is ask for a Day Travelcard for London Zones 1 to 6 from East Croydon. That way they can't actually give you a Underground zones 1-6 as the Underground doesn't go there.

Yes, they can!

 

[ModernRailways]

Yes, they can!

Can they? I tried it at East Croydon one day and the machines didn't show it, but at London Victoria the day before they did?

 

[RJ]

Those tickets can be issued from any National Rail station in London. The only stipulation is that the National Rail station is within one of the U-Zones shown on the ticket. So from East Croydon, you can buy a ticket to any U-Zone so long as it includes Zone 5.

Whether or not an East Croydon to Zone U5 ticket routed Any Permitted (no Cross London marker) can actually be used to go anywhere is a different matter.

The options are loaded into TVMs but you have to know what to look for. I've never bothered with those tickets as they represent bad value for money compared to a Travelcard, unless you really are only doing a single trip to an Underground/DLR station.

 

[soil]

Do you specifically want a paper ticket? Oyster would usually work out MUCH cheaper than this.

 

[sarahj]

Yep, they have sold you a 0786 ticket, valid one journey, and quite expensive in what they are. I've only ever sold them to people with an SVR ticket who wanted to make one trip in and one trip back. People wanting to make muliple trips for more than one day once in London Id advised them to buy an Oyster
Travel cards are either eg 0035 for zones 1-6 and 0032 for Zones 1 and 2 etc.
Selling 0032's are a nice sideline for conductors on a london run when people have tickets to vic only or southern day tickets.

TBH I think travelcard prices have shot up in the last year or so

 

[RJ]

They do keep going up every year - but for what they offer, I feel they are of exceptional value, particularly 2 or 3 Zone Season tickets outside of Zone 1.

 

[Be3G]

These singles to Underground zones are also useful in the edge case of someone with a railcard wanting to travel at a time that their railcard is valid, but when the Oyster charges peak fares with no railcard discount. For example, seeing off someone at Heathrow in the morning with a 16–25 railcard last August, I bought a paper single to U1256 then came back using Oyster PAYG.

 

[Oswyntail]

Do you specifically want a paper ticket? Oyster would usually work out MUCH cheaper than this.

Would this be the case for someone who basically wishes to get on a train and go pootling round London for the day without passing a ticket barrier until he went home? Hoping to do this next week!

 

[soil]

Would this be the case for someone who basically wishes to get on a train and go pootling round London for the day without passing a ticket barrier until he went home? Hoping to do this next week!

You are likely to run against maximum journey times in this case.

Paper travelcard fares are:

Z1-2 £8 peak, £7.30 off-peak
Z1-4 £11 peak, £8 off-peak
Z1-6 £16.40 peak, £8.90 off-peak

There are no daily travelcard fares that exclude zone 1.

The message from the fares above is that if you want to go in zones 3-6, do it on an off-peak travelcard. If you need to make just one peak journey from out of the central zones, use Oyster for that and then switch to an off-peak travelcard for the rest of the day.

Oyster price caps are now roughly 5% cheaper than the travelcard fares, but not worth it if you are spending the whole day on a train because of the risk of maximum fares.

 

[ModernRailways]

Would this be the case for someone who basically wishes to get on a train and go pootling round London for the day without passing a ticket barrier until he went home? Hoping to do this next week!

Whilst yes it would as it would cap your fare, I personally wouldn't recommend it. A paper ticket is much easier to use and you don't have to remember to constantly touch in and touch out and you won't be charged over the top if you don't tap in and out properly, so for example at Farringdon you want to go from a Thameslink (National Rail) to The Underground, you need to touch out on the validator at the National Rail platforms then touch back in. These are only little things on the wall too!

For what you want to do I'd say a paper ticket would be better, it's only 30p more, but in the end you won't need to pay £5 for an Oyster (per person) and so if you don't visit London on a regular basis would be fairly pointless.

 

[MikeWh]

so for example at Farringdon you want to go from a Thameslink (National Rail) to The Underground, you need to touch out on the validator at the National Rail platforms then touch back in. These are only little things on the wall too!

You would only need to do this if you wanted to end one journey and start another. Where two modes are protected by the same gateline there is no need to touch out and in again.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

We don't have Oysters, and using paper cards seems much simpler to me.
I normally just get an £8.90 off peak zone 1-6 Travelcard and get unlimited travel.

Will let you know when I have it resolved with ScotRail.

 

[pinguini]

Couldn't you purchase a London Underground ticket at a London Underground station? Life becomes so much simpler.

 

[IanD]

We don't have Oysters, and using paper cards seems much simpler to me.
I normally just get an £8.90 off peak zone 1-6 Travelcard and get unlimited travel.

Will let you know when I have it resolved with ScotRail.

Don't forget you can get a senior railcard discount on this too.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Couldn't you purchase a London Underground ticket at a London Underground station? Life becomes so much simpler.

Not when there are multiple journeys involved, or perhaps you meant buying Travelcards when I arrive? Anyway, I like to have my tickets bought in advance so avoiding (almost) all the scenarios which we read about every day in the Disputes & Prosecutions forum!

Also saves me having to make sure I have some of the quaint English banknotes with me.

 

[maniacmartin]

Not when there are multiple journeys involved, or perhaps you meant buying Travelcards when I arrive? Anyway, I like to have my tickets bought in advance so avoiding (almost) all the scenarios which we read about every day in the Disputes & Prosecutions forum!

Also saves me having to make sure I have some of the quaint English banknotes with me.

LUL accept cards Its worse when we end up with your notes!

 

[bb21]

Not when there are multiple journeys involved, or perhaps you meant buying Travelcards when I arrive? Anyway, I like to have my tickets bought in advance so avoiding (almost) all the scenarios which we read about every day in the Disputes & Prosecutions forum!

Also saves me having to make sure I have some of the quaint English banknotes with me.

You can buy Travelcards at LU ticket offices, even the reduced-rate ones (for Railcard holders, etc).

But you are right and some people prefer to purchase them in advance, so that they don't have to worry about queues, etc, on the day of travel.

 

[IanD]

You could order from RedSpottedHanky with free delivery if Scotrail are unable to retail the required ticket.

 

[ModernRailways]

You would only need to do this if you wanted to end one journey and start another. Where two modes are protected by the same gateline there is no need to touch out and in again.

Not at Farringdon, you must touch out then back in on the validators on the wall. Alternatively, you can use the proper gateline at the south end of the station and then cross the road to re-enter the underground. I know this from experience and I was told at LUL's Victoria ticket office that Farringdon would have been the cause of being charged the maximum fare when I touched out.

 

[MikeWh]

Not at Farringdon, you must touch out then back in on the validators on the wall. Alternatively, you can use the proper gateline at the south end of the station and then cross the road to re-enter the underground. I know this from experience and I was told at LUL's Victoria ticket office that Farringdon would have been the cause of being charged the maximum fare when I touched out.

I'll send you a PM on this as I'm intrigued.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Full refund for offending tickets agreed and no admin charge. Day Travelcards - description carefully checked by all parties - on their way.

Apparently the original conversation was recorded and was reviewed by management and evidence of "some confusion" was noted.

Lesson learned - always ask for full description/conditions of any tickets about to be bought over the phone even if you think it's all correct. ScotRail telesales always offer to read this out before pulling the trigger on the deal. Partly my fault for declining this because the Travelcards were an afterthought and I'd already checked the sleeper tickets.

(Never make a Daily Mail reader though, would I?)

 

[LexyBoy]

Good that it's been sorted out without complaint.

I can imagine that Scotrail might have trouble with issuing Travelcards, given that I've been issued (after much puzzled punching at an Avantix machine) with a similar ticket in place of a Travelcard by a FGW guard...

 

[Ralph Ayres]

Whilst yes it would as it would cap your fare, I personally wouldn't recommend it. A paper ticket is much easier to use and you don't have to remember to constantly touch in and touch out and you won't be charged over the top if you don't tap in and out properly, so for example at Farringdon you want to go from a Thameslink (National Rail) to The Underground, you need to touch out on the validator at the National Rail platforms then touch back in. These are only little things on the wall too!

For what you want to do I'd say a paper ticket would be better, it's only 30p more, but in the end you won't need to pay £5 for an Oyster (per person) and so if you don't visit London on a regular basis would be fairly pointless.

Touch out and in at Farringdon when changing between LU and FCC is definitely not required. Oyster has its quirks, but that isn't one of them!