Alcohol bans

[railboy]

The other day I saw a poster in Partick station which listed which Scotrail trains would have a complete alcohol ban imposed on them for today's six nations event. Today I travelled on a service which im sure the poster described as one of the services where an alcohol ban was imposed but I observed alcohol being consumed and sold on this train.

I wanted to make absolutely sure that this train was indeed a train with an alcohol ban before making a complaint. I tried to find out online with no success - the Scotrail website just states that alcohol bans will be enforced. This made me wonder how passengers would be made aware of these bans if they aren't well published.

I have 3 questions:
1. How can I or other passengers find out which trains have an alcohol ban? Should this be published online or communicated by on train announcements?
2. Who is the best person to complain to in this case? Would it be Scotrail or the BTP?
3. What is the procedure that should be applied when passengers and/or staff are unaware of an alcohol ban and innocently breach / fail to enforce an alcohol ban?

 

[Flamingo]

Were there any incidents, antisocial behaviour, or other issues associated with the sale or consumption of alcohol on the train? In which case, the first point of contact would be the on-board traincrew, station staff or BTP.

Or is your objection only over a perceived breach of rules?

 

[najaB]

Today I travelled on a service which im sure the poster described as one of the services where an alcohol ban was imposed but I observed alcohol being consumed and sold on this train.

If there was alcohol being sold, then it wasn't a service that was covered by the ban. From what I've seen they don't load the trolleys with any alcoholic beverages on those trains.

 

[185143]

As Flamingo said, (kind of), I am under the impression that alcohol bans are in place to protect the safety of the crew and other passengers.

The crew were clearly OK with the situation onboard as they were selling alcohol. They are perfectly entitled to refuse sale of alcohol if they feel the passenger has had too much, and I have witnessed this happen in the past on post-football trains.

 

[Roy Badami]

I do find the lack of clear information about services with an alcohol ban annoying.

IME the only way you know about these is because there will be a notice up in stations served for a week or so beforehand. As a result, unless you're a frequent traveler on the relevent route it's often the case that the first you know about it is when you arrive at the station to catch your train (sometimes perhaps even carrying alcohol - which would be technically illegal even if you never attempt to drink it on the train). Unlike the TfL alcohol ban, it's not an open container ban - even unopened bottles or cans or alcohol are illegal to possess on NR services with an alcohol ban AFAIK.

This information really should be available online

roy

 

[Failed Unit]

On the Edinburgh- Glasgow route (via Falkirk) the posters at the station are clear. There are 2 interesting East Coast ones.

0952 Aberdeen - London via until Newcastle. BTP are on board this and having used it myself I can see why it was needed. (Friday only)

The 1900 Edinburgh- Doncaster which surprised me as I though that was a little early. (Unless I suffered from people on the way out on a Saturday night). This is a Saturday only issue.

 

[Trog]

I was told by a member of the BTP of a week-end towards the end of BR where the trains out of Euston to a northern city were alcohol banned due to there having been a football match. However one train was accidentally missed off the list, and BR's catering department made the most of this by loading it up with all the beer the catering coach could hold. Luckily as the fans team had won they were in a good mood, and after a few beers in a warm train most of them were soon asleep.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Sometimes it can be in the best overall interests not to pursue breaches of rules too vehemently. I recall a time at Wembley Park after a Wembley final someone came up to me and complained about a passenger smoking in the third car. The police were dealing with an incident on another train so I decided the best course of action was to make a public address announcement reminding passengers that smoking wasn't permitted. The alternatives would be to confront a carriage full of half cut Sunderland supporters on my own or delay the dissipation of supporters from Wembley while awaiting the police to turn up. The complainant wasn't happy about just an announcement being made - wanted the offending person arrested. Sometimes it is either not possible or not in the best interests of the 'overall picture'

 

[jopsuk]

Before making a complaint, ask yourself:
1. Have I actually been hurt, disadvantaged or made to feel threatened by the issue?
2. What will a complaint achieve?

 

[dk1]

Before making a complaint, ask yourself:
1. Have I actually been hurt, disadvantaged or made to feel threatened by the issue?
2. What will a complaint achieve?

Just what o was thinking. What is this obsession with complaining about everything these days?

 

[najaB]

Unlike the TfL alcohol ban, it's not an open container ban - even unopened bottles or cans or alcohol are illegal to possess on NR services with an alcohol ban AFAIK.

Scotrail has a visible alcohol ban. You can carry unopened containers in a bag. I don't know if this will change under the new franchise.

 

[Failed Unit]

Scotrail has a visible alcohol ban. You can carry unopened containers in a bag. I don't know if this will change under the new franchise.

It won't it is the scottish governments rather first groups legislation

 

[Greenback]

Just what o was thinking. What is this obsession with complaining about everything these days?

I blame Esther Rantzen and her successors, right up to Gloria Hunniford, Angela Rippon and Julia Somerville on 'Rip Off Britain'.

 

[jamesst]

I blame Esther Rantzen and her successors, right up to Gloria Hunniford, Angela Rippon and Julia Somerville on 'Rip Off Britain'.

The British public for you! Biggest load of unhappy whingers I've had the misfortune to work with!!

 

[Mutant Lemming]

I blame ...... and Julia Somerville .

Initially thought that was the lead singer of The Communards and HIGNFY presenter - though suppose all three would fit the bill.

 

[GarethJohn]

What if you use the Train to do your shopping? And who checks your bags prior to boarding surely there isn't enough staff to go around?

 

[Greenback]

What if you use the Train to do your shopping? And who checks your bags prior to boarding surely there isn't enough staff to go around?

If you go shopping by train, buy alcohol and use a service to get home on which alcohol is banned, you risk having it taken away from you.

You might be able to get on board the train without being challenged, as you say, there aren't enough people to check every traveller at every station.

 

[No Fault Found]

Before making a complaint, ask yourself:
1. Have I actually been hurt, disadvantaged or made to feel threatened by the issue?
2. What will a complaint achieve?

Like!

 

[Flamingo]

I'm getting a feeling of Deja Vu about this thread...

 

[edwin_m]

I'm getting a feeling of Deja Vu about this thread...

Not seeing double I hope!

 

[DarloRich]

what a load of old wibble

This kind of sum it all up!
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Before making a complaint, ask yourself:
1. Have I actually been hurt, disadvantaged or made to feel threatened by the issue?
2. What will a complaint achieve?

PS are we going to have the may I take an unopened and unobservable bottle of (insert expensive spirit of choice here) discussion?

PPS i didn't know any trains on the Partick line sold alcohol? Good of Scotrail to put a buffet car on a North Clyde line train!

 

[Boothby97]

The boards on Cleethorpes station yesterday were displaying a message stating that alcohol will be banned on all trains arriving at York after 1000 on Saturday 28th March.
Not sure why, and I couldn't find any reference to it on the internet. Also strange to see it advertised at Cleethorpes of all places!

 

[A-driver]

If you go shopping by train, buy alcohol and use a service to get home on which alcohol is banned, you risk having it taken away from you.



You might be able to get on board the train without being challenged, as you say, there aren't enough people to check every traveller at every station.

Wrong. No you don't.

If you drink it on the train you face action being taken against you. If it's unopened and in a bag then it's allowed on scotrail.

Once again common sense needs to be applied here...

From the scotrail site...

You may not drink alcohol on board ScotRail trains between 9pm and 10 am.
Nor can you carry on visible alcohol during these times – opened or unopened. However, if the alcohol is in a bag and cannot be seen, no action will be taken.
We won’t sell alcohol on board after 8.30 pm to give you time to drink up before 9pm.
We may not allow you to board if you are extremely drunk.

So carrying home shopping is fine. Boarding the train with a can of beer in your hand is not.

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/alcohol

 

[Greenback]

I thought that the alcohol bans for sporting events were treated differently to the blanket ban between 2100 and 1000. Apologies if I was wrong.

 

[thenorthern]

Side not here at Lancaster Station FTPE make passengers do a test to see how sober they are before they board the last 2 trains to Barrow-in-Furness on a Friday night and if they fail they will be refused boarding.

Not sure if this works but it seems in principal a sensible idea.

 

[rick9525]

I see that London Midland are banning any alcohol on their services leaving Liverpool after 9pm on Friday and Saturdays. Given the this route was mentioned on the anti social behaviour thread I am not surprised this along with security has been instigated. http://www.londonmidland.com/your-journey/journey-planning/Calling time on alcohol after 9pm/

 

[Kite159]

I see that London Midland are banning any alcohol on their services leaving Liverpool after 9pm on Friday and Saturdays. Given the this route was mentioned on the anti social behaviour thread I am not surprised this along with security has been instigated. http://www.londonmidland.com/your-journey/journey-planning/Calling time on alcohol after 9pm/

Why did I think London Midland had already banned alcohol on late evening Liverpool services?

 

[jopsuk]

I see we've got a classic case of not giving the answer desired... so he's not participating in the thread (despite having looked at the forum). I should be clear that if the OP felt that the selling of alcohol, apparently in contravention of a ban, had contributed to a threatening atmosphere on the train that he's got a right to complain.

 

[Roy Badami]

I thought that the alcohol bans for sporting events were treated differently to the blanket ban between 2100 and 1000. Apologies if I was wrong.

Yes, unless it's changed, when they use the powers under the byelaws to ban alcohol on a particular service (normally due to a football match) it's an absolute ban on all alcohol, including sealed containers in luggage out of sight.

In practice, of course, your bags are unlikely to be searched if you don't look like a football supporter - but that's hardly reassuring!

EDIT: AIUI the ScotRail ban works differently (visible alcohol ban) and the Tfl/MerseyRail bans are different again (open container ban).

 

[Gemz91]

Yes, unless it's changed, when they use the powers under the byelaws to ban alcohol on a particular service (normally due to a football match) it's an absolute ban on all alcohol, including sealed containers in luggage out of sight.

In practice, of course, your bags are unlikely to be searched if you don't look like a football supporter - but that's hardly reassuring!

EDIT: AIUI the ScotRail ban works differently (visible alcohol ban) and the Tfl/MerseyRail bans are different again (open container ban).

I remember queuing for the train at Leeds station when Leeds were in the Play Offs at Wembely a few seasons back. Police went down the que of people looking for alcohol (as they were all dry trains). Fella behind me was obviously going to London for some sort of business trip (despite it being a Sunday) and the police asked to look in his laptop bag to check he had no beer in there. Poor fella looked bemused beyond belief.

Suppose in theory, I could have asked him to carry on my beer for me as he'd be less likely to have been searched then me.