Alliance Blackpool service to be run by Grand Central and start in 2021

[pt_mad]

Sorry to bring it in, but it's like Brexit - nobody really knows.

Remember when they were talking about the possibility of some of the ex Wessex 'pigs' being used as coaching stock? Shame they couldn't be used for this. Although I believe some if not all will be going to SWR shortly anyway?

 

[swt_passenger]

Remember when they were talking about the possibility of some of the ex Wessex 'pigs' being used as coaching stock? Shame they couldn't be used for this. Although I believe some if not all will be going to SWR shortly anyway?

18 sets have been with SWR for about a year. The 6 remaining are in an unknown condition, but were not available to Grand Southern when they wanted them. Which became academic when their open access service was binned.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Remember when they were talking about the possibility of some of the ex Wessex 'pigs' being used as coaching stock? Shame they couldn't be used for this. Although I believe some if not all will be going to SWR shortly anyway?

One of the TPE bids did offer this, though I think they got the better deal in the end.

 

[pt_mad]

Options other than the MK4s look to be slim then. Available MK3s not meeting the soon to be new PRM regulations like.

Out of interest, how will charter trains be able to still use old coaching stock with poor accessibility? Is there a way some MK3s could get an exemption temporarily if they were part of a non franchised operation? I.e. open access and it was agreed it was temporary?

 

[Mollman]

Options other than the MK4s look to be slim then. Available MK3s not meeting the soon to be new PRM regulations like.

Out of interest, how will charter trains be able to still use old coaching stock with poor accessibility? Is there a way some MK3s could get an exemption temporarily if they were part of a non franchised operation? I.e. open access and it was agreed it was temporary?

I'd have thought Open Access would actually be less likely to get exemption (derivation) than a franchised operator due to the way the DfT favours the latter.

 

[mallard]

Out of interest, how will charter trains be able to still use old coaching stock with poor accessibility?

Probably with a form of derogation, similarly to how they're still allowed to use Mk1 stock, have seating, lighting and signage that doesn't mean modern standards, non-contrasting doors, etc, etc.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Out of interest, how will charter trains be able to still use old coaching stock with poor accessibility? Is there a way some MK3s could get an exemption temporarily if they were part of a non franchised operation? I.e. open access and it was agreed it was temporary?

Charter trains aren’t public transport. Saying charter trains must be accessible because those used on timetabled services are is like saying all private cars should be accessible because taxis are.

 

[swt_passenger]

Probably with a form of derogation, similarly to how they're still allowed to use Mk1 stock, have seating, lighting and signage that doesn't mean modern standards, non-contrasting doors, etc, etc.

...and not to mention a rather significant number of onboard staff.

 

[pt_mad]

Charter trains aren’t public transport. Saying charter trains must be accessible because those used on timetabled services are is like saying all private cars should be accessible because taxis are.

Although private cars don't charge the public for traveling in them though, so it's not quite as drastic as that.
Perhaps it's more a case of, apply these regulations to charter trains and you may well lose all heritage from the Network?
I presume the railway rulebook applies to charters as it does the rest.

 

[pt_mad]

Are East Midlands Trains adapting their trains to meet the PRM regs by 1st January? Noticed on the appendix sheets in the gov website that they had the most non compliances across the MK3s by the looks of it. Certainly more reds in the boxes than most of the others.

 

[43096]

Are East Midlands Trains adapting their trains to meet the PRM regs by 1st January? Noticed on the appendix sheets in the gov website that they had the most non compliances across the MK3s by the looks of it. Certainly more reds in the boxes than most of the others.

Suggest you ask that in an appropriate EMT thread!

 

[pt_mad]

Suggest you ask that in an appropriate EMT thread!

Sorry. Reason it relates is because there was some discussion taking place on whether it would be possible for MK3s to be used on GNWR with hired 90s to get them up and running. Given the delays in releasing MK4 sets. And it was brought up that MK3s won't pass the regs very shortly. So if a derrogation ends up being provided then perhaps it could still be not a complete rule out.

 

[swt_passenger]

Sorry. Reason it relates is because there was some discussion taking place on whether it would be possible for MK3s to be used on GNWR with hired 90s to get them up and running. Given the delays in releasing MK4 sets. And it was brought up that MK3s won't pass the regs very shortly. So if a derrogation ends up being provided then perhaps it could still be not a complete rule out.

Getting a derogation for stock that is already in place and running is considered a completely different situation to introducing such stock afresh for a new route where it doesn’t already run. I’d have thought that was pretty widely understood.

 

[MylesHSG]

I wonder where GNWR plan on stabling and maintaining their fleet. Alstom in Wembley would be the obvious choice at the South End of the route, though they don't have experience with MK4 coaches or class 91 engines. Plus they are pretty busy with the fleet of 390's and soon to be replaced sleeper stock. Also seen recently that the odd VT Voyager comes in during the day (presumably to get it out of the way of Euston if it's not scheduled for a passenger service for a while).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I wonder where GNWR plan on stabling and maintaining their fleet. Alstom in Wembley would be the obvious choice at the South End of the route, though they don't have experience with MK4 coaches or class 91 engines.

Except they built them (as GEC-Alsthom)…
GNWR's in house maintainer would be Arriva Traincare at Crewe.
But you are right they are "foreign" to the southern WCML.

 

[pt_mad]

Looks like the Alliance Rail website has stopped working?

 

[hexagon789]

Looks like the Alliance Rail website has stopped working?

I get the impression that they've decided not to operate the services after all.

 

[The Planner]

Grand Central have been looking after a fair bit of their affairs from what I know.

 

[RAPC]

Site working fine again now. The error message yesterday seemed to point to them letting the hosting expire. Appears to be fixed now.

 

[KashmireHawker]

Change the title!

Alliance Rail has confirmed things will finally begin in Spring 2020, under Grand Central.

Grand Central plans new Blackpool to London route from 2020 in major boost for the local economy

Grand Central has today confirmed that its plans to run trains between Blackpool and London from Spring 2020 are firmly on track.

These InterCity services were approved in June 2018 by the Rail Regulator, the Office of Rail and Road. Originally planned as Great North Western Railway (GNWR) services they are expected to be operated by established open access operator, and sister Arriva company, Grand Central.

Grand Central currently operates direct trains between towns and cities in Yorkshire and the North East of England and London. The company has an industry-leading reputation for customer service and value for money and a track record of supporting local communities on and around its networks.

In a move which is expected to bring significant economic benefits to the North West, including a boost to tourism, Grand Central will operate up to five new direct train services to run every day of the week between Blackpool North and London Euston. Blackpool will gain direct services to London on Sundays as well as later trains to and from the capital Monday to Saturday. Poulton-le-Fylde and Kirkham & Wesham will each have new direct London services throughout the day, seven days a week. All trains will also call at Preston and Nuneaton, with most stopping additionally at Milton Keynes, connecting leisure and businesses travellers to the capital and offering a choice of operator along with low cost fares.

Richard McClean, Managing Director of Grand Central, said: “We are delighted to announce our plans to operate direct train services between London and Blackpool from early next year. We will bring our operational expertise and industry-leading customer service to this new route, offering more choice for existing rail users and new opportunities for people to travel by train. The expansion of our services will bring significant economic benefits, empower communities along the routes and offer fantastic new career opportunities.

“For more than a decade, we have been dedicated to making travel affordable and enjoyable for people in the North East and across Yorkshire. This new chapter opens up these opportunities to the other side of the Pennines and beyond, ensuring rail remains relevant and accessible to as many people as possible.”

The train operator’s expansion plans will create new jobs over the coming months. Grand Central will be recruiting drivers and on-board crew for its Blackpool traincrew hub. Train driver recruitment will begin soon. More information can be found at www.grandcentralrail.com/careers

More information about the new Blackpool services is available on the Grand Central website at www.grandcentralrail.com/blackpool

And here is the confirmed timetable.

 

[nuneatonmark]

Good news, as long as they deliver! From Nuneaton, the first train will only be 7 minutes behind the Virgin service at 0845!

 

[Bletchleyite]

What are they using again? 91s and Mk4s?

 

[Ianno87]

The 1141 Euston-Blackpool on a Sunday takes a fair while to get from Preston to Kirkham...

 

[pt_mad]

What are they using again? 91s and Mk4s?

That was what was in the application. See the calling pattern, they're stopping at Milton Keynes with 8 out of the ten workings in the week, and all of them at weekends.

 

[KashmireHawker]

What are they using again? 91s and Mk4s?

That is expected to be the case.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That was what was in the application. See the calling pattern, they're stopping at Milton Keynes with 8 out of the ten workings in the week, and all of them at weekends.

Yeah, noticed that. Why not the two evening southbounds? I guess pathing issues - but can't Platform 5 be used to avoid that?

 

[KashmireHawker]

Here's the full timetable, in a bigger size taken from the new webpage: https://www.grandcentralrail.com/popular-routes/london-blackpool

 

[pt_mad]

The 1141 Euston-Blackpool on a Sunday takes a fair while to get from Preston to Kirkham...

I think you may have found a typo error there?

 

[Aictos]

Excellent news then, look forward to using them when they start service!

 

[pt_mad]

Yeah, noticed that. Why not the two evening southbounds? I guess pathing issues - but can't Platform 5 be used to avoid that?

Maybe they don't require an overtake on those two? Or maybe it's just because something is following behind before Euston? Perhaps The Planner will know?