Alliance Rail (GNWR) gets Network Rail approval

[Iskra]

Direct London services from Dewsbury and Huddersfield seem a bit pointless if it's quicker via Leeds due to many stops. I suppose people may prefer not changing though. This route almost provides a bit of a cross-country service between West Yorkshire and the West Midlands. It looks like a decent service frequency too.

I think this has broken into Euston by the fact the routes abstract a little from many operators rather than a lot from one operator. The West Yorks route abstracts from Northern, TPE, Virgin and London Midland.

 

[Suraggu]

It still needs the approval of the ORR but this news is a positive step for Competition on the West Coast.
IM sure Beardy will be moaning to the papers so he gets the sympathy vote.

 

[Bantamzen]

Interestingly it seems that Alliance haven't totally given up on the Bradford / Calder Valley services:

http://www.alliancerail.co.uk/2014/...ndon-direct-rail-services-move-a-step-closer/

Ian Yeowart continued: “Disappointingly not all our services are deliverable at the moment, but we will continue to engage with Network Rail to try and secure the capacity we need to address the issue in the future. A similar situation was faced by sister company Grand Central in 2006 when it began services to Sunderland from an application that included Sunderland and Bradford. Despite being rejected at the time, Bradford services began three years later ”

Although to be fair, they are also perusing more Bradford bound services via the ECML, so they have more eggs in their basket and will be buoyed by their initial success on securing an agreement for access to the WCML.

http://www.alliancerail.co.uk/2014/...yorkshire-cleethorpes-and-london-kings-cross/

 

[Hellfire]

London to Preston currently takes around two hours ten minutes doesn't it?

Fastest London to Preston is 2 hours. That's non-stop.

Factoring in stops at Warrington BQ and Wigan, which the majority of services do, adds a further 8 minutes.

 

[northwichcat]

One morning peak service terminates at Oxford Road and it returns northwards as a service to Windermere.

There's also an evening peak Oxford Road - Windermere service the unit does an ECS run from the Airport to Oxford Road and then sits at Oxford Rd for quite a while.

 

[NotATrainspott]

If the 'Alstom-GB-tilting-train-with-23m-carriages-and-ONIX-traction-package' production line is to reopen I hope the DfT considers ordering carriages to make all the remaining 9-car Pendolinos into 11-car. To the best of my knowledge a lot of the safety regulation changes were for the driver's cab so the carriages themselves might not have to be particularly different.

 

[northwichcat]

Direct London services from Dewsbury and Huddersfield seem a bit pointless if it's quicker via Leeds due to many stops. I suppose people may prefer not changing though. This route almost provides a bit of a cross-country service between West Yorkshire and the West Midlands. It looks like a decent service frequency too.

I think this has broken into Euston by the fact the routes abstract a little from many operators rather than a lot from one operator. The West Yorks route abstracts from Northern, TPE, Virgin and London Midland.

Currently Huddersfield-Kings Cross takes around 3 hours with a change and the risk that if you miss your connection it'll take longer. Huddersfield-Euston via Warrington should take around 2 hr 30 with no risk of a missed connection. The proposed service will also open new journey opportunities by providing a direct link between Crewe and West Yorkshire.

I wonder if the plans will affect the proposal for Liverpool-Victoria-Newcastle to be half-hourly.

 

[DarloRich]

The only way you'll achieve that though is either increasing journey times to London from places further north or deleting calls from other stations which receive the current IC services - which would probably mean Watford Junction, Rugby and potentially Nuneaton / Tamworth losing out.

Sorry - MK getting more IC calls isn't going to happen.

Sorry but that is exactly what will happen.

Revenue will be higher by stopping at MK than, say, Tamworth so Tamworth or Nuneaton or Rugby will simply be cut as an intercity station. A harsh fact of the current economic climate. Once the E-W connection is in place MK will become a larger interchange and attract more passengers, especially in the peaks. Coupled with the intensive lobbying from the local authority and the continued growth of the town I can easily see all intercity services stopping there quite soon.

 

[Class 170101]

The latter most probably since 390s aren't compliment to current crash standards

How is that? Those things are lard butts. Look what happened to the one at Grayrigg and how many people died.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Will be interesting to know what has changed since Virgin were told no to Shrewsbury via Stafford..

I don't think Virgin were serious about Shrewsbury given the way they went about it. If they were serious about Shrewsbury they could have extended one of the West Midlands services to Shrewsbury rather than create a new train from Shrewsbury to Euston.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Sorry but that is exactly what will happen.

Revenue will be higher by stopping at MK than, say, Tamworth so Tamworth or Nuneaton or Rugby will simply be cut as an intercity station. A harsh fact of the current economic climate. Once the E-W connection is in place MK will become a larger interchange and attract more passengers, especially in the peaks. Coupled with the intensive lobbying from the local authority and the continued growth of the town I can easily see all intercity services stopping there quite soon.

Just like Reading then, as it should be

 

[DarloRich]

Just like Reading then, as it should be

just a reflection of the facts.

 

[kylemore]

Just a thought - since the Windermere branch is to be electrified is there any market for a direct Euston - Windermere train?
Perhaps running only at weekends initially say out on Friday late afternoon and back on Sunday afternoon/early eve. You could even have inclusive weekend break packages with hotels.
Would the platform at Windermere accomodate a 6 car Pendo?

 

[Class 170101]

Not needed it seems.
Trains will go Crewe-Warrington-Newton le Willows-Victoria-Stalybridge-Leeds (all electric by 2017/18).

Edit: Actually, when the Ordsall Curve is in (2018?) electric trains could run Crewe-Stalybridge via Stockport, Oxford Road and Victoria.

I am surprised Stockport to Stalybridge isn't being wired to be honest. Its a small stretch of line that could be useful for diversionary purposes but will be next to useless without wires.

 

[Manchester77]

How is that? Those things are lard butts. Look what happened to the one at Grayrigg and how many people died.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Most trains don't meet modern regulations for cab safety think only the 380s, 377/6s and 377/7s meet them (and obviously any new trains on order meet them)

 

[thealexweb]

Just a thought - since the Windermere branch is to be electrified is there any market for a direct Euston - Windermere train?
Perhaps running only at weekends initially say out on Friday late afternoon and back on Sunday afternoon/early eve. You could even have inclusive weekend break packages with hotels.
Would the platform at Windermere accomodate a 6 car Pendo?

Looking at the Windermere platform earlier today it would be able to take a six car 185. Dunno about a Pendo though.

 

[Clip]

So even more new trains for the North then

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Looking at the Windermere platform earlier today it would be able to take a six car 185. Dunno about a Pendo though.

p3 at Oxenholme is 139m according to the Sectional Appendix for LNW North: that's enough for 5-car of a Pendolino (using 390 measurements), but not 6.

 

[whizzylizzy]

Poulton le Flyde direct to London? Keith Harris will be happy! I sat opposite him once and I asked him where Orville was and he said in the bag on the seat next to him. Was he avoiding a ticket for the daft duck? LOL

P.S How many other Celebs would benefit from this new service?

 

[infobleep]

p3 at Oxenholme is 139m according to the Sectional Appendix for LNW North: that's enough for 5-car of a Pendolino (using 390 measurements), but not 6.

What would be the problem if a 6 car train stopped at a 5 car platform? Is there simply too many trains passing through to allow such a thing? I know some stations in the South East have longer trains than platforms but the frequency of trains makes it possible.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[MidnightFlyer]

What would be the problem if a 6 car train stopped at a 5 car platform? Is there simply too many trains passing through to allow such a thing? I know some stations in the South East have longer trains than platforms but the frequency of trains makes it possible.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Nothing really, but it depends case by case based on the positions of signals etc usually. Judging by Google Maps (I have to be honest, I can't be bothered wading through the SA again!) there's a signal just beyond the platform end heading towards Windermere, which the train would need to stop before; and an extra coach off the end of the platform might just foul the Down Main for Carlisle, it looks tight.

 

[The Planner]

Oxenholme is due for a bit of a re-jig at some point so that might not be so much of an issue.

 

[thealexweb]

Oxenholme is due for a bit of a re-jig at some point so that might not be so much of an issue.

Interesting, got any more details about that?

 

[The Planner]

Some of the crossovers get moved about and there was talk about the down loop becoming the access to the Windermere branch. Still up in the air though.

 

[Masboroughlad]

Will the Cumbrian coast service happen at all?

 

[kylemore]

Looking at the Windermere platform earlier today it would be able to take a six car 185. Dunno about a Pendo though.

p3 at Oxenholme is 139m according to the Sectional Appendix for LNW North: that's enough for 5-car of a Pendolino (using 390 measurements), but not 6.

Thanks for info - would there be any need to stop at Oxenholme since most of the punters would be heading to Windermere?

 

[Hardcastle]

Would there be a demand for a direct Euston-Windermere service once a week I doubt it, as for the Cumbrian coast what would be used to operate the service which I believe would run as far as Workington.

 

[driver_m]

Currently Huddersfield-Kings Cross takes around 3 hours with a change and the risk that if you miss your connection it'll take longer. Huddersfield-Euston via Warrington should take around 2 hr 30 with no risk of a missed connection. The proposed service will also open new journey opportunities by providing a direct link between Crewe and West Yorkshire.

I wonder if the plans will affect the proposal for Liverpool-Victoria-Newcastle to be half-hourly.

I can't see it being 2h 30. Think 3+ would be more realistic. Looking at their plans they're stopping at plenty of stations. Our services (vwc) rack up the minutes if we stop at any additional stations to the usual ones. Ordsall is going to be a huge bottleneck for any service crossing it IMO not just the service you mention.

 

[Starmill]

Maybe the fact that an Open Access Operator has looked at this and decided there is insufficent demand to run this through Bolton and Chorley

Oh not this whole nonsense again. "Bolton and Chorley are noplaces, everybody travelling there is happy with a pacer and nobody wants to go beyond Victoria."

Yeah, right.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Oh not this whole nonsense again. "Bolton and Chorley are noplaces, everybody travelling there is happy with a pacer and nobody wants to go beyond Victoria."

Yeah, right.

That obviously isn't the case though and not necessarily what Moonshot was implying either - the real question is is there enough demand to justify it on what already is going to be quite a slow trek to / ex- London?

 

[Starmill]

just a reflection of the facts.

Yach. I'm so glad we don't have an equivalent of Reading on the West Coast. If I lived in Bristol instead of Manchester all those pilers going to Reading would annoy me even more than the MK passengers do when I have the misfortune to take a train that stops there!