Anarchy in Calais

[Quakkerillo]

Too many people are trying to enter the UK illegally via Calais. These often came in via Italy, Greece, and/or Hungary/Slovenia. French police could send these people back there, after having been stopped. But this is a costly process, and they need to find out who these people are, where they're from, and where/how they entered the EU/Schengen. And after sending back, these countries just let them go free, as they're understaffed, and overwhelmed by the amount of immigrants, while EU support is lacking.

The UK is behaving like it's a French problem, whereas the UK insists on having their customs and border control on French soil, whilst being understaffed. Due to this, every night some immigrants manage to slip through, hidden in a lorry. These success stories attract more new immigrants who want to try.

Seeing the economical cost of this all going wrong, I'd say it'd be sensible for the UK to invest more. If they were able to do 100% checks on every lorry, with a higher speed than now, the amount of successful immigrants would drop to near-zero. That won't help the mood in Calais, and will deter them from trying in the longer term.

Blame the French for all you want, but they don't want those people either. They cause enough issues around Calais for the locals as is. But they can not be sent back without costing a huge amount of manpower and money, which they don't just have lying around for this. And it'd just continue over-and-over again.

The only way to stop this, is making the chance of success 0%. And that, that is the UK responsibility, for they run the border lorry checks.

 

[Cletus]

It's just been reported that smoke has been seen rising from the entrance to Calais port and access from the A16 has been blocked.

 

[Senex]

The UK is behaving like it's a French problem, whereas the UK insists on having their customs and border control on French soil, whilst being understaffed....

Seeing the economical cost of this all going wrong, I'd say it'd be sensible for the UK to invest more. If they were able to do 100% checks on every lorry, with a higher speed than now, the amount of successful immigrants would drop to near-zero....

The only way to stop this, is making the chance of success 0%. And that, that is the UK responsibility, for they run the border lorry checks.

The French, along with their Schengen partners, are responsible, because they are not running the agreed system properly. But from our perspective I think what you say is absolutely right. We are going to have to spend a lot more money on really thorough checking to make the chance of success in getting as near 0% as possible. And if we are seen to be doing that, perhaps the French will provide much stronger security patrols in the Calais area.

 

[HilversumNS]

I blame the EU, who ought do more by instead of sending them to Britain actually have them stay in the first safe country they arrive in.

That said the French ought secure their borders properly instead of appearing to do very little about it, Calais is their responsibility not the UK's and as such the French need to do more.

The French can't really do much about their border with Italy, as both countries are part of Schengen.

Err, it was mean't to be a little light humour. Honestly, sometimes.... :roll:

Sorry, I missed the in your original post.

 

[AM9]

The French, along with their Schengen partners, are responsible, because they are not running the agreed system properly. But from our perspective I think what you say is absolutely right. We are going to have to spend a lot more money on really thorough checking to make the chance of success in getting as near 0% as possible. And if we are seen to be doing that, perhaps the French will provide much stronger security patrols in the Calais area.

The French and the other Schengen countries are not necessarily at fault as there is free movement within and between all countries. The UK government is not party to the Schengen Agreement so has no right to criticise how it is managed within the member countries.
The problem is the UK's insistence on trying to keep all those allowed to roam freely in the Schengen Area out of a small part of France surrounded by a wire fence. The Channel ports always had the ability to detect and stop those not authorised to enter the UK. Similarly, the Chunnel is just a railway line, so unless any stowaways were to jump off a train travelling at line speed, all security can be conducted adequately behind UK fences at the Folkestone terminal. These fences can be as high and difficult as the UK wishes.

 

[HilversumNS]

Similarly, the Chunnel is just a railway line, so unless any stowaways were to jump off a train travelling at line speed, all security can be conducted adequately behind UK fences at the Folkestone terminal. These fences can be as high and difficult as the UK wishes.

Once they are in the UK, it's the UKs responsibility to put the illegals through the UK system, which is horrendously slow, inefficient and expensive. Without any travel documentation, France would not take them back.

 

[Yew]

The lack of affordable housing is due in no small part to mass immigration.

I'd say that is a casual factor at most, I would say that the neoliberal obsession with reducing the size of the state is the main factor. Look at the graph below and notice the correlation between the number of council houses built by local authorities built, and the massive above inflation rise in house prices due to shortages.

source: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n01/james-meek/where-will-we-live

Not to mention the number of wealthy individuals whom own former council houses and rent them back to the local council, Including Charles Gow, whom owns at least 40 former council houses. Interestingly, his father was responsible for overseeing the 'Right to buy'.

 

[Johnuk123]

One thing is certain and that is the total inability of the EU to manage this crisis by not insisting that these migrants are detained at the point of entry and held there whilst being properly processed.

If camps need to be built then they should be up and running now. The inertia of the EU is very predictable you only have to look at the despicable bullying of Greece to see that the organisation is big on talk but useless when the right action is required.

If we do in fact have a referendum I would think anybody unsure whether to vote to stay in or leave will certainly not be impressed by what has been allowed and encouraged to happen at Calais.

 

[TheKnightWho]

One thing is certain and that is the total inability of the EU to manage this crisis by not insisting that these migrants are detained at the point of entry and held there whilst being properly processed.

If camps need to be built then they should be up and running now. The inertia of the EU is very predictable you only have to look at the despicable bullying of Greece to see that the organisation is big on talk but useless when the right action is required.

If we do in fact have a referendum I would think anybody unsure whether to vote to stay in or leave will certainly not be impressed by what has been allowed and encouraged to happen at Calais.

Very quick to blame the EU when I thought you were the one that wanted to leave things up to individual countries. That is (mostly) what is happening now.

These migrants will not go away whether we are in the EU or not, and our obligations to asylum seekers under the ECHR will not disappear either, as it is not part of the EU, even if it is affliated.

Talk of closing the Chunnel is also utter madness - I never thought anyone would seriously make that suggestion, but if there's anything I've learnt, satire is being replaced by reality with certain points of view at the moment.

 

[telstarbox]

What difference would leaving the EU make? There'll still be cross-channel ferries and trains.

 

[TheKnightWho]

I'd say that is a casual factor at most, I would say that the neoliberal obsession with reducing the size of the state is the main factor. Look at the graph below and notice the correlation between the number of council houses built by local authorities built, and the massive above inflation rise in house prices due to shortages.

source: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n01/james-meek/where-will-we-live

Not to mention the number of wealthy individuals whom own former council houses and rent them back to the local council, Including Charles Gow, whom owns at least 40 former council houses. Interestingly, his father was responsible for overseeing the 'Right to buy'.

This. As much as certain people love to push the line that "the country is full" and that migrants are somehow stealing both jobs and benefits (which is it, folks?), the real issue is our completely short-sighted policy.

That's to say nothing of *why* these migrants are fleeing in the first place - a series of events the UK played no small part in.

 

[Johnuk123]

This. As much as certain people love to push the line that "the country is full" and that migrants are somehow stealing both jobs and benefits (which is it, folks?), the real issue is our completely short-sighted policy.

That's to say nothing of *why* these migrants are fleeing in the first place - a series of events the UK played no small part in.

If they were really fleeing for their lives why have they kept on fleeing once they entered the EU, why is a safe country like Italy not to their liking.

As I said before if an economic migrant which is what by and large they are was so grateful when they hit the Italian beach why oh why then begin another trek for Calais.

I take it you do not believe in processing them in their first safe country as per the rules.

As for closing the tunnel that would be a very good idea for a short while to make it as secure as possible, it could be done very quickly and then reopen.

Youth Unemployment rate under 25's.

Greece 55.40%
Spain 52.56%
Italy 42.50%

Doesn't take a genius to see England is a better option.

 

[deltic]

The great difficulty I have with all of this is that they are all people, and I don't entirely see why I should get to live in a well-off, relatively free country with the mobility to live more or less where I want like the UK and them not. They aren't an underclass nor should they be. Yet the UK can't afford to take them all in.

In the long term there will have to be a global flattening of living standards to bring people into line; I think this will happen naturally as the West runs out of cheap places to manufacture their gadgets etc. Because there are only so many resources, that'll involve a reduction in living conditions in the UK as well as an increase elsewhere, I'm afraid.

Its nice to see someone with compassion on here amongst the many rants. The main cause of migration that we are seeing is political instability in part caused by the west - Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan. Resolving conflicts and supporting development across the world is the only way one is going to reduce the levels of migration presently seen.
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If they were really fleeing for their lives why have they kept on fleeing once they entered the EU, why is a safe country like Italy not to their liking.

As I said before if an economic migrant which is what by and large they are was so grateful when they hit the Italian beach why oh why then begin another trek for Calais.

I take it you do not believe in processing them in their first safe country as per the rules.

As for closing the tunnel that would be a very good idea for a short while to make it as secure as possible, it could be done very quickly and then reopen.

What would you do if you had to leave home and the first safe place you arrived at you could not earn a living? Would you spend the rest of your life living on charity/benefits/begging or would you go to where you could earn some money often to send home to support your family? Look at the millions living in refuge camps in Lebanon, Turkey and elsewhere and tell me that is a life you and your family could spend the rest of your life in.

 

[TheKnightWho]

If they were really fleeing for their lives why have they kept on fleeing once they entered the EU, why is a safe country like Italy not to their liking.

As I said before if an economic migrant which is what by and large they are was so grateful when they hit the Italian beach why oh why then begin another trek for Calais.

I take it you do not believe in processing them in their first safe country as per the rules.

As for closing the tunnel that would be a very good idea for a short while to make it as secure as possible, it could be done very quickly and then reopen.

I am not trying to say that everything is going swimmingly or that every country has behaved properly. They haven't. I'm saying knee-jerk reactions with clear agendas (such as leaving the EU) are not appropriate or effective.

Closing the tunnel would just be a large economic hit for the sake of very little. Indeed, migrants who've made it this far tend to be extremely resourceful - do you really think they'd give up now? Plus, if someone is willing to trek a couple of thousand miles to get somewhere better, including across Europe which you claim isn't necessary, do you really think they're the sorts of people to sit idly by on benefits?

 

[Johnuk123]

What would you do if you had to leave home and the first safe place you arrived at you could not earn a living? Would you spend the rest of your life living on charity/benefits/begging or would you go to where you could earn some money often to send home to support your family? Look at the millions living in refuge camps in Lebanon, Turkey and elsewhere and tell me that is a life you and your family could spend the rest of your life in.

You're talking about our black economy where the vast majority of these people will end up like the 4 car washers down my road who never fail to tell me how much money they're making whilst never contributing a penny to this country.

Some of these migrants may eventually get a proper job and pay tax but a hell of a lot will never appear on any records and will never ever pay anything into this countries coffers except when they go to the Pakistani mini-market for the daily chevon.

 

[TheKnightWho]

You're talking about our black economy where the vast majority of these people will end up like the 4 car washers down my road who never fail to tell me how much money they're making whilst never contributing a penny to this country.

Some of these migrants may eventually get a proper job and pay tax but a hell of a lot will never appear on any records and will never ever pay anything into this countries coffers.

Do they somehow not eat, then?

 

[AM9]

You're talking about our black economy where the vast majority of these people will end up like the 4 car washers down my road who never fail to tell me how much money they're making whilst never contributing a penny to this country.

Some of these migrants may eventually get a proper job and pay tax but a hell of a lot will never appear on any records and will never ever pay anything into this countries coffers.

Wouldn't that be down to the employer taking them on without checking their entitlement to work in the UK? The employers are complicit in most cases of illegal working by immigrants, mainly because they can pay them less as they are under threat of deportation.

 

[Cletus]

It's just been reported that smoke has been seen rising from the entrance to Calais port and access from the A16 has been blocked.

This from a local forum

Just read on la Voix du Nord that strikers from the MyFerryLink SCOP have put barricades of burning tyres on the rocade portuaire blocking it in both directions. This follows a decision issued this morning to put the SCOP into forced judicial liquidation i.e. bankruptcy. This could get worse as some of the strikers have warned on social media that if this happens they will scuttle the Berlioz and the Rodin in the harbour mouth.

 

[Johnuk123]

Crisis solved, Cameron in his usual tough way of operating has decided that a bit more fence and a few spaniels will do the trick.

 

[CC 72100]

Just read la voix du nord article and the Facebook page dedicated to the support of the former MFL employees - they are currently burning tires on the main road into Calais port.

Judging by the same page, it looks as if the road from Calais towards Dunkerque is also blocked.

Search: "Tous avec Myferrylink - All with Myferrylink"

 

[Aictos]

The French can't really do much about their border with Italy, as both countries are part of Schengen.

I was referring to the border between UK and France, the French should and can do more but they A. Can't be bothered see Calais mayor encouraging illegals to head to UK or B. The local French police force is so undermanned and suffers from lack of investment that they can't do much.

Also don't forget that a national newspaper has done a article pointing out security breaches from THREE years ago which still haven't been dealt with so you have to forgive me for not having any confidence in the French Govt in handling this situation.

What the French and UK Govts need to do is send the Gurkhas to secure the UK part of the Channel Tunnel and the French Foreign Legion to secure the French part of said Channel Tunnel by doing this and securing the border is the only way of dealing with this issue.

Both Govts ought to encourage illegals to settle in the EU, mind you with the benefit state the UK has become is it any wonder why everyone is coming to the UK?

I'm no UKIP supporter but I'm fed up of the disruption caused by these illegals and the lack of action by both French and UK Govts.

 

[deltic]

I was referring to the border between UK and France, the French should and can do more but they A. Can't be bothered see Calais mayor encouraging illegals to head to UK or B. The local French police force is so undermanned and suffers from lack of investment that they can't do much.

Also don't forget that a national newspaper has done a article pointing out security breaches from THREE years ago which still haven't been dealt with so you have to forgive me for not having any confidence in the French Govt in handling this situation.

What the French and UK Govts need to do is send the Gurkhas to secure the UK part of the Channel Tunnel and the French Foreign Legion to secure the French part of said Channel Tunnel by doing this and securing the border is the only way of dealing with this issue.

Both Govts ought to encourage illegals to settle in the EU, mind you with the benefit state the UK has become is it any wonder why everyone is coming to the UK?

I'm no UKIP supporter but I'm fed up of the disruption caused by these illegals and the lack of action by both French and UK Govts.

So the way to stop migrants traveling from France to the UK is to use migrant labour to do so - is this a classic spoof post or has the irony of this solution passed people by. Interestingly a recent piece in the BBC suggested if people want benefits then France is more generous than the UK. I dont think many people who are willing to die getting into the UK do so for the lure of £36.95 a week and a hostel place in Hull

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Wouldn't that be down to the employer taking them on without checking their entitlement to work in the UK? The employers are complicit in most cases of illegal working by immigrants, mainly because they can pay them less as they are under threat of deportation.

Not to put too fine a point upon it, there are employers and there are "employers", if you follow my train of thought.

 

[DarloRich]

Not to put too fine a point upon it, there are employers and there are "employers", if you follow my train of thought.

exactly - there are lots of people happy to take advantage of the hidden labour market and seemingly lots of people to feed that market

 

[BananaRepublic]

It annoys me that the media in the UK is so myopic in its coverage and reporting of this crisis.
If you read the newspapers, watch the TV news or listen to the coverage on broadcast radio, you'd think that the mass attempts at storming the tunnel terminal only started this week, when it has been going on for ages.
All that has changed is that the numbers involved has swelled dramatically in the last couple of weeks, culminating with the 2000+ reported to have made the attempt on Monday night..

What they have been slow to report on, is the numbers that are actually getting through.
We had the report the other day that Keith Vaz saw 148 illegal migrants being held in Kent, but there is a more startling story behind that, which hasn't had much, if any coverage.

A BBC Radio 4 news report this morning, had an interview with a senior officer of the Kent local authority who are having to deal with processing those that are caught at Dover or Cheriton. He reported that the daily numbers of new arrivals who have sneaked through, but have either been caught, or found wandering around, has been varying between 150 and 200 every couple of days for the last few weeks !!!!
If that continues at the same rate.....??? Do the maths.

Those figure don't include those who have sneaked off undiscovered, or have stayed on board lorries until deeper into the country, such as those seen on the video cutting their way out of a curtained lorry in Birmingham.

Another news story largely ignored by most of the press and TV news, is the death of the migrant who attempted to ride on the roof of a Eurostar train from Gare du Nord, just a couple of days ago.
If that episode is repeated and more attempts are made to stow away on Eurostar services, imagine the disruption that might cause?


I found it quite enlightening to hear two different radio news reports coming from the camps in Calais, where illegal migrants were directly asked "why Britain"?.
The common answers include the desire to become part of the Black economy to get work, to be provide with money and a place to live and to eventually get "papers". As the interviewees mostly spoke understandable English, some quite well, the language was also cited as a reason for choosing the UK over other European countries.
There appeared to be a universal open and clear intent to melt in to the Black economy and expect benefit payments.

Asked why they didn't want to stay in France or Italy (in the case of a woman who had lived there for more than a year before setting of for Calais), the reasons given include the fact they were not wanted there and there wasn't any work.


On another note, the calls to modify or suspend the Schengen agreement are growing within the EU.
Both French and German politicians are raising this issue.

Sadly, I have to agree with a French politician who said today that this is just the tip of the iceberg and it will get a lot worst.

 

[Dennis]

re Mr Cameron's new fence, might plugging it into the mains be useful?

Just a thought....

 

[beeza1]

re Mr Cameron's new fence, might plugging it into the mains be useful?

Just a thought....

My sentiments exactly, I was amazed watching the news this morning when they filmed illegals, (not migrants) passing a small child over the fence, my first thought was "why isn't it electrified".
Like it or not we are being invaded, we have the armed forces to prevent such things, so come on Mr Cameron use them!

 

[AM9]

exactly - there are lots of people happy to take advantage of the hidden labour market and seemingly lots of people to feed that market

Unscrupulous employers are not the only culprits, there are the customers who know that they are preying on workers who are being blackmailed. And there is the hypocritical 'how much for cash' culture practiced by UK subjects who have live in this country all of their lives. Their voiced 'patriotism' is a sham.
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My sentiments exactly, I was amazed watching the news this morning when they filmed illegals, (not migrants) passing a small child over the fence, my first thought was "why isn't it electrified".
Like it or not we are being invaded, we have the armed forces to prevent such things, so come on Mr Cameron use them!

Please explain in your view what the difference between an 'illegal' and a 'migrant' is.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Does anyone with knowledge of the French legal code and could say what this code defines the current offences actually are in their terminology?

Would water cannon not be a proposition in the invaded area and what do the French think of the use of rubber bullets?

 

[AM9]

It seems that once Godwin's Law was demonstrated on this thread, (post #78), a clutch of posters have whipped themselves up into a lather of xenophobic frenzy blaming everything on these unfortunate refugees, and of course the French. In truth, whether they should have stayed in southern Italy or Greece is irrelevant. They are in the EU of which we are a major part!
There is no prospect of any change down there. Most of them were registered in Italy and therefore free to move within the Schengen area. The Schengen Agreement is all about protecting the periphery of the area from intruders. There's nothing about stopping them from leaving, much as the UK doesn't always check passports of those departing from the UK.
This situation will continue until the UK has taken its share of EU (forget Schengen) migrants. Currently, based on 2014 figures, on a per 1000 population basis, the EU states with the nine highest intakes are:
Sweden 8.35 per 1000 pop.
Hungary 4.39
Austria 3.26
Germany 2.5
Belgium 2.05
Netherlands 1.47
Italy 1.08
France 1.0
UK 0.49
So all this mis-information about the UK being full and can't take any more, and migrant only wanting to go to the UK because it is a scrounger's paradise etc. etc. is just devisive fabrication. Such is the misinformed rhetoric.