Any trains with front windows for passengers?

[jopsuk]

On a lot of trains the back wall of the cab has been used as a handy place to put electrical and electronic systems that it would be useful for the driver to have ready access to for fault finding etc.

Did any mainline EMU other than the Class 303 have a view through the cab? Not all the 1st gen DMUs did, and none of those were built after 1963. As far as I can tell the era of building mainline (as opposed to light rail) trains with a forward view for the UK was little more than decade from the early 50s to the early 60s

 

[Philip C]

On a lot of trains the back wall of the cab has been used as a handy place to put electrical and electronic systems that it would be useful for the driver to have ready access to for fault finding etc.

Did any mainline EMU other than the Class 303 have a view through the cab? Not all the 1st gen DMUs did, and none of those were built after 1963. As far as I can tell the era of building mainline (as opposed to light rail) trains with a forward view for the UK was little more than decade from the early 50s to the early 60s

I'm sure that I'm only starting a list when I point out that the AM10 (cl.310) had rather high windows facing fore and aft.

 

[Phil.]

As a driver I wouldn't like masses of people being able to survey my every move. Id feel like an exhibit and then there's the distractions

So how did drivers in the days of 1st generation DMUs cope then? DB inter-city drivers seem to manage.

 

[bb21]

So how did drivers in the days of 1st generation DMUs cope then? DB inter-city drivers seem to manage.

Ask those people themselves if you can find one.

How is anyone else supposed to know?

 

[colchesterken]

Train drivers seem to be a shy lot, road vehicles have a view forward and can watch the driver may favourite seat on a coach is the isle front seat you can see the road ahead
I remember in about 1958 I was in the front seat on a trolley bus in London the driver saw I was watching he opened the window between the passenger section so I could lean into the driving section to see what he was doing, good on him
aaaah the good old days, no elf and safety to worry about

 

[scotraildriver]

In the current claims culture there would no doubt be a raft of claims for trauma etc in the event of a fatality.

 

[LowLevel]

In the current claims culture there would no doubt be a raft of claims for trauma etc in the event of a fatality.

I suspect this is a pretty significant factor. We've had a few where the body has ended up in the cab with the driver which really isn't what you want to be showing off to the public, it's traumatic enough for the traincrew.

 

[rf_ioliver]

Going with the OP's double deck DMU, there was the DB Class 670 singlecar doubledeck DMU:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/diesel/dmu/historic/670/pix.html

t.

Ian

 

[neilb62]

Ask those people themselves if you can find one.

How is anyone else supposed to know?

I didn't mind having the blinds up (but not the one right behind me) in fact if I got anyone 'interested' in the front seats I'd have the door open too to chat to them. The downsides? A mate had a woman have a panic attack running into Padd once when a train was coming directly towards them on the same line before he got to the points and I had someone nearly have heart-failure after running over a detonator near Pangbourne (they do go with a big puff of smoke as well as a bang!) Also if I got anyone messing about it was blinds down straight away.
In the dark it was blinds-down to prevent backlight and most had some surreptitious holes cut in them so you could see any naughty goings on in the front seats!

 

[notadriver]

Train drivers seem to be a shy lot, road vehicles have a view forward and can watch the driver may favourite seat on a coach is the isle front seat you can see the road ahead
I remember in about 1958 I was in the front seat on a trolley bus in London the driver saw I was watching he opened the window between the passenger section so I could lean into the driving section to see what he was doing, good on him
aaaah the good old days, no elf and safety to worry about

Because driving several hundred tons of train at 100 mph plus is the same as driving 20 tons at restricted 60 mph ?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

In the current claims culture there would no doubt be a raft of claims for trauma etc in the event of a fatality.

I was sort-if alluding to that sort of thing with the tale about the cows. It's hard enough for drivers let alone pax!

 

[philthetube]

and what if you need to pee into a cup

They weren't long distance trains, so opportunities were more frequent, alos running time was more generous and seemed to involve layover time at interchange stations.

 

[AlterEgo]

Because driving several hundred tons of train at 100 mph plus is the same as driving 20 tons at restricted 60 mph ?

There are lots of small airliners which either have no cockpit door, or a wholly open cabin. The pilots seem to just get on with it.

That said, I can understand the privacy aspect drivers bring up.

 

[neilb62]

There are lots of small airliners which either have no cockpit door, or a wholly open cabin. The pilots seem to just get on with it.

That said, I can understand the privacy aspect drivers bring up.

Some of the 'old-boys' I worked with were very insular and would barely speak to their secondman during a shift, let alone letting the travelling public into 'their world' Others of course (like me) were happy to let people see what was going on and I've had so very interesting questions asked, even recently.

 

[notadriver]

A 21st century solution. I'm all for a forward facing camera feed which anyone can access via wifi. Control inputs and actual speed wouldn't be a problem for me either. Then everyone can see no matter where they are in the train.




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[AlterEgo]

A 21st century solution. I'm all for a forward facing camera feed which anyone can access via wifi. Control inputs and actual speed wouldn't be a problem for me either. Then everyone can see no matter where they are in the train.




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Sounds like a great idea. Seems to work on large airliners at least.

 

[SPADTrap]

The view forward really isn't that interesting, I'm sure people would prefer to see their phones or iPads or books...

 

[richieb1971]

The view forward really isn't that interesting, I'm sure people would prefer to see their phones or iPads or books...

But you can see a view coming up or an object of interest approaching. The acute angles you get with just the sides is not enough.

Since I am the OP that asked the question. I was asking more for charter trains where the objective is to perhaps enjoy an experience not found on regular passenger trains.

That "Caroline" saloon coach that gets whisked around by DRS 37's and 57's is a pretty unique coach that offers a great view, but its not available to common passengers to use.

 

[DarloRich]

That "Caroline" saloon coach that gets whisked around by DRS 37's and 57's is a pretty unique coach that offers a great view, but its not available to common passengers to use.

that isn't used for a jolly - it is for inspections.

 

[Beebman]

As a number of people have mentioned, it's pretty common in Japan. The Shinkansen don't have a driver's eye view, nor do some of the faster trains on classic lines. But almost all commuter trains and slower regional trains do.

Earlier this year I travelled from Fukuoka to Nagasaki in the front section of a JR Class 885 express EMU. Not only does this type have something of a resemblance to the DB ICE-3 (Class 406) it also has a large glass window behind the driver's cab which electronically 'mists up' at times to obscure the view. In the case of the JR train, this 'misting up' seemed to happen automatically whilst it was stopped at stations.

 

[theageofthetra]

Caroline (Which I presume is an ex Hastings diesel coach?) Was out with a DRS 37 as I was on an ECS from CST this morning- looked like it was inspecting the lines south of London Bridge. What did surprise me about it was that it didn't appear that much a narrower profile than the 37 hauling it. It wasn't as obvious as say the mk1 that runs with the preserved Hastings diesel set or the old Tadpole sets.

 

[SPADTrap]

I wouldn't mind a go driving 'Caroline' but I'd be pretending I was skipper of a lumbering container ship with all those windscreens and wipers!

 

[lincolnshire]

The view forward really isn't that interesting, I'm sure people would prefer to see their phones or iPads or books...

Definitely agree with the above, always amuses me that if you sit at a table for 4 seat out comes the laptops , see who can get the sockets first, the 2 mobile phones leads earphones wallet etc etc. I often look around to find that on a train in morning to London they are at it mobile phones laptops etc and nobody looks out the window these days , they all too busy doing what?

New trains could save a lot of money and be built without as many windows as nobody seems to look out anymore.

If there was a window behind the driver we would be full of reports from people all claiming that the driver didn,t do this and that, that he was drinking tea and should he doing that etc etc. Years ago in the days of the DMU when you could sit behind the driver nobody reported the drivers every move in them days, people just got on with there life and was not sticking there nose into how everyone else does there job.

 

[Phil.]

Ask those people themselves if you can find one.

How is anyone else supposed to know?

It was a sort of sarcastic rhetorical question. The answer for BR drivers is that they just got on with it. To-day's British rail driver seems to be a much more sensitive soul unlike their counterparts in Japan, Germany and Italy all of which have open windows behind the driver.

 

[Joe19B]

As for double-decker EMUs, Oliver Bulleid produced some, the 4DD, for the Southern, or the Southern Region of British Railways as it had become before they were actually built in 1949, which were used between Charing Cross and Dartford.

They were withdrawn in 1971 and, apparently, two vehicles are still extant.

 

[RPM]

I usually open the blind on the non-driving side when I'm driving the bubble cars. Occasionally enthusiasts make a beeline for the front seats, but the regular passengers are completely disinterested.

 

[Harbornite]

Definitely agree with the above, always amuses me that if you sit at a table for 4 seat out comes the laptops , see who can get the sockets first, the 2 mobile phones leads earphones wallet etc etc. I often look around to find that on a train in morning to London they are at it mobile phones laptops etc and nobody looks out the window these days , they all too busy doing what?

Most likely doing something useful like communicating with other people, checking the news or doing work.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Iunlike their counterparts in Japan, Germany and Italy all of which have open windows behind the driver.

All of them?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

It was a sort of sarcastic rhetorical question. The answer for BR drivers is that they just got on with it. To-day's British rail driver seems to be a much more sensitive soul unlike their counterparts in Japan, Germany and Italy all of which have open windows behind the driver.

You can call them sensitive souls if you want but the reality is nearer to management induced paranoia. And that's not a criticism of management but a reflection of the rigorous safety management systems required of railways today. Failure to report even minor incidents can have serious repercussions so drivers are very aware of the need to do things in the prescribed manner and report events that occur. What they don't need is uninformed members of the public, however well-meaning, reporting their concerns about something which is perfectly normal because they simply don't know any better. Such reports just create additional and avoidable stress for drivers and workload for their line-managers.

 

[notadriver]

Passengers and spotters are very quick to use Twitter. One even complained their train was being driven despite what he saw was green signals. The thread is on here somewhere.


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[richieb1971]

My original post was for charter trains only. To give something extra you don't get on normal services.

I wouldn't expect open views on the front on standard passenger trains.