I realise that suggesting that any "new" stock is less good than the "old" stock on this forum immediately has you castigated as some kind of small brained luddite but:
Whilst my view on the Voyager is quite clear they aren’t the worst train on the network by any means. So in the interests of fairness:
Good points
Fast
Reliable
Cheaper for the TOC to run (which should reduce our fare but oddly doesn’t)
Ride quality is decent enough
I am told by rolling stock engineers that acceleration, sustained speed performance, brakes, emissions and fuel efficiency are very good on the Voyager & the crash integrity is top notch
Much less dingy internal environment than the Pendolino and in no way claustrophobic
Nice big windows so you can see the world go by (I know that for most modernity slaves a tablet is de rigueur but I like a view!)
Passenger numbers – the layout means lots of people can be crammed into a small space
Ability to support VHF timetables
Ability to tilt
Virgin ones are usually in good internal nick, XC less so.
VT all table/free wifi second class carriage is very nice
EDIT:Good quality air con/heating
Bad points
Rattles – EVERYTHING seems to rattle or vibrate in the bloody things and each item of trim seems to resonate at a different frequency! Why can’t some damping be developed/installed to reduce this issue?
Underfloor engines – They really grate after a fairly short time. I am sure the yoof don’t notice as they have their brains plugged into an anti social I device but I like to read when not working.
Lack of tables makes working quite difficult whilst on the move
Length- far too short for long distance trains
Far too busy and therefore cramped
Sewage smell ( see below) WHY have XC not solved this when Virgin have at least improved the issue?
Comfort. Poor in my view, certainly not as good as the trains they replaced
Catering – I know the sensible passengers purchase before boarding but on a long journey (see below) your supplies can become exhausted and need replenishing. The trolley is not great sadly.
Layout – why are there so many toilets on such a small train?
Frist class – why bother as it is often deserted? Rip it out and make the train all standard
Lack of gangways – double trains mean double crews and double the costs!
Too many views of white plastic land.
Faraday cage effect on board
Poor wifi
Expensive wifi (not limited to XC/VT admittedly)
Leg room seems very stingy
Seats that seemed designed to cut the circulation to your legs off after exactly 90 minutes
I'm not going to go through all your points and why i mostly disagree with them but what i will point out is your disillusion that people get on north of Edinburgh and dont get off until south of Plymouth. The XC NE-SW routes serve many smalling journeys such as Leeds - Sheffield/Birmingham/Newcastle, Birmingham-Bristol, etc. Very few if any passengers take the train all the way unless they're enthusiasts. When travelling such a distance people tend to fly or drive with a break in the middle.
A big part of the equation which a lot of people seem to miss out on is that a lot of journeys on CrossCountry are short hops between neigbouring towns and cities.
As many others have said the amount who travel the full 8+ Hrs from Plymouth to Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee/ Aberdeen would be incredibly small.
.... and, as has been said many time on here, how many people travel the length (or even near to it!) of such lines....
This journey distance rubbish again. I have often used XC (or at least I did until it become unbearable) between Edinburgh and Plymouth/Newcastle & Southampton/Bristol. I am not, was not and won’t be the only person who does such long distances. It may surprise you to know there are quite a few undertaking similar length journeys for both business and leisure. I know you all want to minimise this group of passengers and try to suggest that our comments are illegitimate but these trains are awful for long distance travel in second class. They are merely tolerable in first.
I find it funny that supporters try to defend these train on the basis that even though they are used on long journeys they are ok for short ones! Does that not strike you as a failure? Should they not be good for both long and short journeys?
I also find it funny that many people saying the Voyager is fine have said they have only travelled on one once or twice!
Well well well, where do I start
Are you only travelling at peak time? Even slightly outside the peaks and the trains are quite spacious.
Not sure when you go but they are often rammed all day. After about 2000 they tend to empty out away from the core section and be tolerable within the core. They aren't long enough though
Oh great let me just magic some more stock from nothing :roll:
No let’s not! They are useful trains that, in my view, are simply unsuitable for the routes they work. Let’s learn the lesson from these trains and make sure that the next trains are specified to a decent passenger comfort standard and are of a suitable length for long distance services and the current Voyager trains find a use on less long distance services.
I'm looking forward really to the next XC franchise, hopefully getting the current 220/221's reconfigured into longer units, refurb, fix the loo's, improve interior mobile signal, hopefully roll out technologies to improve seat booking via smart phones or online for season ticket holders. That's the main gripes fixed. Made possible in the early days by released units made possible by the 800/801 fleet, then ultimately replacing the old displaced units with new EMU's on XC's wired routes, gradually redeploying the Voyager fleet as wiring continues.
This actually, coupled with a cascade of redundant Voyagers to less long distance routes where their acceleration and speed can be of use.
Also if they hadn't replace loco haul and HSTs
From my view it isn’t that they replaced these things at all, change is a good thing, BUT it is the fact they replaced them with a less good passenger journey experience offered in less comfort which slightly annoys me. It is worth pointing out that there seems to be a qualitative difference between the VT and XC units with the VT ones being much better. Oddly my gripes are with the XC trains
NOT the Virgin ones. This is perhaps coloured by the relatively short distance VT travel (MK – London/ MK – Crewe) rather than the long distance XC travel I do.
Finally for all of you lovers of these trains let me present the following evidence for the prosecution:
Birmingham – Darlington, 1730 on a Friday evening. Only space available was standing (well more like pinned) next to the disabled toilet and a bin (with first almost empty!) on a 4 car train breathing in anothers cooked pooh fumes for several hours. All for about £70. You reckon that is a good thing do you? Defend that! That was the final straw for me as far as XC and the Voyager is concerned. No more.