Actually as a civil servant you would probably be prosecuted under Section 2 of the Official Secrets Act 1989.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Arriva Rail North DOO
- Thread starter Andrew32
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Pretty urgent then.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
DCO won't happen before Dec 18 simply because Northern won't have any new trains in service before then.
313103
Established Member
- Joined
- 13 May 2006
- Messages
- 1,595
I wonder how the outcome of this meeting will be recorded?
If the union wins anything (which is highly unlikely) the answer will be 'Northern Rail management cave in to Militant trade union demands'. We are going back to the 1970s where trade unions destroyed British industry.
If Management win (which they no doubt will) 'We see this as a victory of common sense over a dinosaur organisation that will not move with the times'. DOO is completely safe, the union are telling you lies, no one has died or been injured as a result of DOO, whereas people have when a Guard is in charge. No Guard will lose his/her job, we do not plan to make people redundant voluntary or otherwise.
If the union wins anything (which is highly unlikely) the answer will be 'Northern Rail management cave in to Militant trade union demands'. We are going back to the 1970s where trade unions destroyed British industry.
If Management win (which they no doubt will) 'We see this as a victory of common sense over a dinosaur organisation that will not move with the times'. DOO is completely safe, the union are telling you lies, no one has died or been injured as a result of DOO, whereas people have when a Guard is in charge. No Guard will lose his/her job, we do not plan to make people redundant voluntary or otherwise.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Given a revision to the franchise requirements can't be made without DfT approval, the furthest Northern can offer to go is a guarantee of 2 members of staff on all services (but not a guarantee the second member of staff will be in charge of the doors or dispatch) and a guarantee that the second member of staff will have some safety training like first aid and evacuating the train in an emergency.
If the RMT demand a guard on every train and the guard opening and closing the doors on every service and refuse to compromise then they'll be no resolution.
Allegedly, the compromise offered at the last meeting was drivers open and close doors and a second person is to be present for the purposes of revenue protection and passenger safety.
This was initially rejected by the company and no final answer has been given to that proposal.
This was initially rejected by the company and no final answer has been given to that proposal.
Last edited:
I suppose a lot hinges on what the eventual resolution is on Southern.
If as some suggest they are told to agree to an OBS being compulsory on every service running on their newly created DOO routes then I can't realistically see northern aiming for anything more radical than that.
Plus it'll make it even tougher for Merseyrail to get their full DOO plans accepted
If as some suggest they are told to agree to an OBS being compulsory on every service running on their newly created DOO routes then I can't realistically see northern aiming for anything more radical than that.
Plus it'll make it even tougher for Merseyrail to get their full DOO plans accepted
Last edited:
From a guards point of view that wouldnt actually be a bad result......will enable us to focus far more on the passenger.
If the driver has sole responsibility for the doors you would be gone by next franchise change!
Agreed
speedy_sticks
On Moderation
- Joined
- 24 Oct 2013
- Messages
- 183
What would happen to a passanger in a wheelchair on the platform?
Kite159
Veteran Member
Sounds a bit like the SPT method of working
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Sounds like GTR OBS, to be quietly abolished later when nobody is looking.
Solent&Wessex
Established Member
- Joined
- 9 Jul 2009
- Messages
- 2,715
But wouldn't be allowed under the franchise agreement as the contract with the DfT requires that trains can run without a second member of staff on board.
There is nothing that requires Northern to run trains without a second member of staff, it allows them to do so, although even this is subject to doubt.
It defines DCO as being the "operation of a train by a driver alone without the need for a conductor". The second member of staff can't be involved in the operation of the train, but this says nothing about whether or not a second person should be on-board.
In the DCO section it requires Northern to plan for a second person on board and use "all reasonable endeavours" to operate services according to the plan. This does not require them to run trains without a second staff member, it allows them to.
However there is another section hidden away in the reservations section, which states that on Northern Connect services, passengers must be able to buy on-board seat reservations from a "train host". While I'm a little puzzled by the concept of on-board seat reservations, it implies there must be a second person on-board.
Last edited:
When do you envisage the period "when nobody's looking"?.as bar a change in the law (very highly unlikely) the railway unions for the foreseeable future anyway will always be looking and as we've seen aren't shy in balloting over these issues either.
Last edited:
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Indeed. I thought part of the reason for the dispute is the RMT wanted trains to be cancelled if the second member of staff was unavailable but Northern wanted the option of still operating the train if the scheduled member of staff is unavailable e.g. if they've phoned in sick.
Can't find a seat? Give the on board host £5 and he/she will remove a passenger from an unreserved seat. :roll:
northwichcat
Veteran Member
New strikes announced for 1st and 4th September.
No suprise really, I suspect unfortunately that this will rumble on well into next year.
YorkshireBear
Established Member
- Joined
- 23 Jul 2010
- Messages
- 9,110
Shame. I needed a late night train on Friday 1st September....
Robertj21a
On Moderation
- Joined
- 22 Sep 2013
- Messages
- 7,688
Agreed, probably 12 more months of strikes. It will be interesting to see if much is different in a year's time.
Small mercy that it's not the entire weekend.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Evening events that would usually sell out weeks before are increasingly still having tickets available a few days before - perhaps people are trying to avoid buying too far in advance in case the train crews go on strike and then they can't get home?
northwichcat
Veteran Member
I think Sunday strikes are unlikely unless there's some big event on, as they wouldn't cause as much disruption.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Unless they announce one by this Sunday then 0%. Sounds like the London based union and their very loud rep from Liverpool had forgotten about that event, given their record of trying to disrupt all major events.
Honest question: can strikes be called with such a short space between dates?
Jamesrob637
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Aug 2016
- Messages
- 5,657
Better then in a way than later in September. There'll be no school traffic on 01 Sep and I suspect most schools will have inset day on 04 Sep so commuter levels will still be significantly lower as parents take the last day of school holidays off to be with their kids.
I would have thought so it's a good while in between
- Status