Arriva replace 35 seater Solo SRs with Mercedes minibuses

[BestWestern]

It is something that is often trotted out though.

Merc commercial chassis are very durable whether they were 608, 709 or 811 - the Vario was durable but awful in terms of ride quality (especially the earlier examples)

Granted, a proper Merc truck chassis is bulletproof, however these aren't one of those, so far as I can tell. It's just a Sprinter isn't it? A light van designed to last about five years or so, like all vans. Manufacturers don't build them to last, they're supposed to be disposable.

 

[martinsh]

One of these on the 6 in Crewe this morning - absolutely hideous ! Luckily for all the local journeys I make, I have the alternative of D & G.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Granted, a proper Merc truck chassis is bulletproof, however these aren't one of those, so far as I can tell. It's just a Sprinter isn't it? A light van designed to last about five years or so, like all vans. Manufacturers don't build them to last, they're supposed to be disposable.

The 608/709 were replaced by the Vario which in turn was replaced by the heavier Sprinter which is what these are

 

[pemma]

One of these on the 6 in Crewe this morning - absolutely hideous ! Luckily for all the local journeys I make, I have the alternative of D & G.

Reported elsewhere that Arriva will use them as cover for the normal buses on the 6 route, despite the fact the 6 competes with the D&G 12 route which usually has brand new SRs on it!

 

[BestWestern]

The 608/709 were replaced by the Vario which in turn was replaced by the heavier Sprinter which is what these are

Ah! Well, we shall see how they manage then!

 

[pemma]

Just looking at that photo, it doesn't seem too much shorter than a standard Solo

Someone's uploaded a photo of the new buses alongside the SRs at the depot to Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/nicksbuscoach/34984807004/in/dateposted-public/

So they aren't excessively shorter but the front bit on the Mellor has less usable space than the front bit on the Solo, also the Mellor is quite a bit narrower which explains the significant difference in passenger capacity.

 

[Amberley54]

Someone's uploaded a photo of the new buses alongside the SRs at the depot to Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/nicksbuscoach/34984807004/in/dateposted-public/

So they aren't excessively shorter but the front bit on the Mellor has less usable space than the front bit on the Solo, also the Mellor is quite a bit narrower which explains the significant difference in passenger capacity.

Thanks for linking to one of my photos!

Had chance to sample one now and rather impressed. Feel is very much a 'big bus' from the passenger perspective, rather than a converted bread van that was the case with many of the original types. A couple of Solos are being kept at Gaw End Lane to help with capacity issues on the 10 to Bollington.

 

[A0wen]

One of these on the 6 in Crewe this morning - absolutely hideous ! Luckily for all the local journeys I make, I have the alternative of D & G.

"Hideous" in what sense? That's a pretty emotive word.

If you mean the aesthetics of the vehicle - then that's a pretty strange reason for choosing whether or not to use a bus route.

Surely more important is whether the vehicle is fit for purpose and reliable?

 

[507021]

"Hideous" in what sense? That's a pretty emotive word.

If you mean the aesthetics of the vehicle - then that's a pretty strange reason for choosing whether or not to use a bus route.

Surely more important is whether the vehicle is fit for purpose and reliable?

Absolutely spot on.

 

[pemma]

Surely more important is whether the vehicle is fit for purpose and reliable?

There are questions about whether these are suitable for the routes they are being used on. One is whether they are large enough without the frequency being increased. Another is whether they are suitable for the bays at Macclesfield bus station and the bus stops around Cheshire which have been adapted to allow for standard low floor vehicles, as these are lower than standard low floor vehicles there's a drop down from the bus stop/stand to the bus entrance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

"Hideous" in what sense? That's a pretty emotive word.

If you mean the aesthetics of the vehicle - then that's a pretty strange reason for choosing whether or not to use a bus route.

Surely more important is whether the vehicle is fit for purpose and reliable?

Publicity counts, which is why buses have moved on from being boxes on wheels to having at least a bit of styling.

 

[ag51ruk]

"Hideous" in what sense? That's a pretty emotive word.

If you mean the aesthetics of the vehicle - then that's a pretty strange reason for choosing whether or not to use a bus route.

Surely more important is whether the vehicle is fit for purpose and reliable?

They feel very tight for space inside - normal width seats but no space between them and a narrow centre aisle that anyone larger or with shopping bags may struggle with. Brought back memories of the Opfare CityPacer for me.

 

[A0wen]

There are questions about whether these are suitable for the routes they are being used on. One is whether they are large enough without the frequency being increased. Another is whether they are suitable for the bays at Macclesfield bus station and the bus stops around Cheshire which have been adapted to allow for standard low floor vehicles, as these are lower than standard low floor vehicles there's a drop down from the bus stop/stand to the bus entrance.

I would assume Arriva have looked at the loadings before making that change - not sure it's in a bus company's interest to run a smaller vehicle and leave passengers behind. The fact they're retaining some of the Solo SRs for certain routes tends to bear that out.

In terms of the kerb issue - unless there is an agreed standard height (and I'm not sure there is) then the bus company just needs to ensure it's sensible. Either which way, accessibility is far better than it was a few years back when the step up from the kerb to a National or Leopard was quite a jump.

 

[A0wen]

They feel very tight for space inside - normal width seats but no space between them and a narrow centre aisle that anyone larger or with shopping bags may struggle with. Brought back memories of the Opfare CityPacer for me.

There was nothing fundamentally wrong with the City Pacer - I remember them being introduced back in the late 80s and most passengers quite liked them.

They had the merit of not looking like a panel van with windows - unlike the Ivecos, Transits and Sherpas of the time. And they tended to be used in urban areas serving streets which traditional vehicles couldn't get down.

Add in from a passenger perspective a shiny new City Pacer was far more attractive than a beaten up National belching black smoke from its engine - which was the choice back then.

If Arriva were looking to run down these routes, I'm not sure putting new buses which the 'average' passenger will think is a good thing, is the way to do it. Digging up some well worn Darts or something similar would be a far better way to achieve that.

 

[pemma]

I would assume Arriva have looked at the loadings before making that change - not sure it's in a bus company's interest to run a smaller vehicle and leave passengers behind. The fact they're retaining some of the Solo SRs for certain routes tends to bear that out.

When they had a Mellor on trial on one of the Macclesfield routes passengers were left behind but that didn't change Arriva's plan to use them on that route without enhancing the frequency. I imagine it would be different if they had competition on the route!

In terms of the kerb issue - unless there is an agreed standard height (and I'm not sure there is) then the bus company just needs to ensure it's sensible. Either which way, accessibility is far better than it was a few years back when the step up from the kerb to a National or Leopard was quite a jump.

The lower than standard floor would make these buses ideal for hail & ride services or flexible transport schemes - the type of services Arriva avoid in Cheshire because they can't make any real money off them.

Just because they are better than what would have been used in the 1980s doesn't mean it should be seen as a non-issue that they are less accessible than the buses they are replacing on the routes they plan to use them on.

 

[A0wen]

When they had a Mellor on trial on one of the Macclesfield routes passengers were left behind but that didn't change Arriva's plan to use them on that route without enhancing the frequency. I imagine it would be different if they had competition on the route!

But were passengers left behind on every journey or just the one you happened to be on? The operator will have fairly accurate usage stats as well as the driver feeding in anecdotal information i.e. passengers left behind.

There are some train journeys which leave passengers behind - try getting on the Northern Line at Kings Cross at 8.30 on a weekday morning. Each train routinely leaves 100 or so passengers behind.

The lower than standard floor would make these buses ideal for hail & ride services or flexible transport schemes - the type of services Arriva avoid in Cheshire because they can't make any real money off them.

As I said before - I'm not sure there is an official "standard" for low floor buses.

Just because they are better than what would have been used in the 1980s doesn't mean it should be seen as a non-issue that they are less accessible than the buses they are replacing on the routes they plan to use them on.

I don't believe they are less accessible - particularly given the legislation which is now in place on such matters. The point I was making though is compared to the 80s pretty much every bus is accessible or will be in the near future- whereas in the 80s the City Pacers were far more accessible than the standard single deck buses of the time.

 

[pemma]

But were passengers left behind on every journey or just the one you happened to be on? The operator will have fairly accurate usage stats as well as the driver feeding in anecdotal information i.e. passengers left behind.

There are some train journeys which leave passengers behind - try getting on the Northern Line at Kings Cross at 8.30 on a weekday morning. Each train routinely leaves 100 or so passengers behind.

I didn't travel on the route when the trial bus was being used. However, I've heard off a good source drivers told management of the problems they encountered with the Mellors including passengers being left behind but they were ignored by management.

It's not a good comparison to compare a London commuter route with a train around every 3 minutes, with a bus route serving a town in Cheshire with services at most every 30 minutes.

As I said before - I'm not sure there is an official "standard" for low floor buses.

I don't believe they are less accessible - particularly given the legislation which is now in place on such matters. The point I was making though is compared to the 80s pretty much every bus is accessible or will be in the near future- whereas in the 80s the City Pacers were far more accessible than the standard single deck buses of the time.

Whether or not there's an official standard or whether they meet the legal requirement there are routes more suitable for Mellors than the ones Arriva have chosen to operate them on. They would probably be ideal if D&G Bus wanted to replace their 'Little Bus' fleet but they aren't ideal replacements for Solo SRs in the Macclesfield and Northwich areas.

 

[BestWestern]

But were passengers left behind on every journey or just the one you happened to be on? The operator will have fairly accurate usage stats as well as the driver feeding in anecdotal information i.e. passengers left behind.

There are some train journeys which leave passengers behind - try getting on the Northern Line at Kings Cross at 8.30 on a weekday morning. Each train routinely leaves 100 or so passengers behind.

The point is that bus operators are locked in an eternal struggle to attract ridership and raise revenue, whereas the railways are not. One poor experience like that of a bus service is very likely to damage business, while on the railways it's routine and the same passengers will keep coming back and just put up with it.

 

[ag51ruk]

There was nothing fundamentally wrong with the City Pacer - I remember them being introduced back in the late 80s and most passengers quite liked them.

Not suggesting there was - although they were woefully underpowered for some of the hilly routes Derby City Transport used them on (and in DCTs case, they were replacements for full size double deck vehicles with no increase in frequency in some cases).

The comparison was more that they had been designed to look a bit different, but they were narrower than a standard bus so getting down the aisle with a bag could be a struggle

 

[pemma]

I got a closer look at the Mercedes Mellor buses operating in Macclesfield this week. In my opinion there is no way they should be operating from the stands at Macclesfield Bus Station as due to the large front of the vehicles part of the door is blocked off by the railings, which would make it impossible for a wheelchair passenger to board. They might as well being using a non-compliant vehicle. As Arriva trailed a demo vehicle in the Macclesfield area prior to acquiring the new vehicles they should have noticed that and arranged with Cheshire East council for bus station modifications to be made if they wanted to use the vehicles.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What do they do if a wheelchair user does wish to board? I assume something will be in place, such as another boarding location to drive over to.

 

[pemma]

What do they do if a wheelchair user does wish to board? I assume something will be in place, such as another boarding location to drive over to.

I have no idea as the bus station is at the top of a steep hill and all bus stands are the same and require the bus to face the building to pick up. Perhaps they've been fortunate and not yet had a wheelchair user wanting to board/alight one of those services at the bus station?

 

[BestWestern]

Perhaps the issue might be raised with the operator to see if they can raise a satisfactory response?

 

[holl1984]

I use the 1 route in northwich regularly with my mother. She has a shopping trolley usually and I always have my daughter who will be 1 next month. I like them...she doesn't although we did have to let one go without us on Thursday ad there was already 2 ladies with shopping trolleys on the bus and no room to swing a cat!